No, sorry.  I haven't read it but I remember a purple site thread ages ago about how NPCS would be very obviously gay and generally it had that whole "politics of presence" thing going on.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalOh cool! The company's named after a lesbian punk band.  They should have gone the whole hog and called themselves Sleater Kinney games.

There's a lesbian punk band called Dream Pod 9? You mean the game is named after a lesbian punk band? That's actually untrue...when the game was given it's name, DP9 was unaware of the existence of a lesbian punk band named Tribe 8. I can't blame them for not checking either, what were the odds?

I've always liked the Silhoutte system, so Tribe 8 wasn't 'hard to get' from that aspect for me. Of course, I only ever bought the main book, so all the other stuff I missed out on.  I got a dystopian game with metaphysical themes and elements, a war between survivors and alien bastards that had gone south.

Kult without the hope? GLBT Dominant politics?  The Gods of the tribes CAUSED teh alien bastards to destroy humanity? WTF???


That's what I get for not keeping up on the fluff. No, this one I have to take a pass on. It didn't grab me enough to play with one book, and while I like developed fluff (I am a 40k fan, after all), I don't buy my RPG's for that. There is a reason I don't like to play in forgotten realms (two if you count the Drizz't/Elminster phenomenon...), and that is I don't need some fatbeard setting nazi to fuck up my game, on either side of the screen.

Of course, now I want to get a cliff notes of the fluff for tribe 8... might be good for a laugh.

Quote from: SpikeKult without the hope? GLBT Dominant politics?  The Gods of the tribes CAUSED teh alien bastards to destroy humanity? WTF???

I don't know about the GLBT dominant politics - sexuality in Tribe 8 is simply different than in our culture. There is no "gay" or "straight" - there's just the gender(s) that any individual has a preference for (or no preference at all). Anyone delving into it deeper than that is looking too hard.

As for the Fatimas causing the Z'bri to destroy Humanity...that's wrong too. The One Goddess unleashed the Z'bri on Humanity as a punishment, but that's right there in your core book. The Fatimas struck a deal with the Z'bru during the Liberation from the Camps to end the war between them...but that's pretty much in your core book too if you look hard enough.

I can accept criticisms of Sil not really matching up to Tribe 8; or that the narrative style was not conducive to finding information; but people should get the facts straight about the setting before mouthing off about it (not you, just in general).

Quote from: WilI don't know about the GLBT dominant politics - sexuality in Tribe 8 is simply different than in our culture. There is no "gay" or "straight" - there's just the gender(s) that any individual has a preference for (or no preference at all). Anyone delving into it deeper than that is looking too hard.

As for the Fatimas causing the Z'bri to destroy Humanity...that's wrong too. The One Goddess unleashed the Z'bri on Humanity as a punishment, but that's right there in your core book. The Fatimas struck a deal with the Z'bru during the Liberation from the Camps to end the war between them...but that's pretty much in your core book too if you look hard enough.

I can accept criticisms of Sil not really matching up to Tribe 8; or that the narrative style was not conducive to finding information; but people should get the facts straight about the setting before mouthing off about it (not you, just in general).

To be honest, I haven't seen my copy of Tribe 8 since I moved out of North Carolina in '99.  That, and I've never felt the need to really REALLY look into the 'secrets behind the setting' too much in games. I remembered vaguely that the Fatima's led humanity from the camps of the Z'bri, and MAYBE remember something about 'myths about the origins of the Z'bri' or something...

As for the sexual politics, I actually remember that now. Yeah, that sort of sentiment is very 'realistic' and very politically neutral by itself, but is so very easily adapted to being GLBT supportive, or anti-straight in accordance to the readers prejudices that I'm not surprised that it got blown out of hand on the web by someone.

The only flaw I recall system wise is that Silhoutte does not handle 'powers' very naturally, and the 'tacked on' method used didn't really sell itself very well.  If the supernatural aspect of the characters had been removed then you had a decent, gritty/mythologic apocalyptic primatives setting, and rules that worked well.

Quote from: SpikeTo be honest, I haven't seen my copy of Tribe 8 since I moved out of North Carolina in '99.  That, and I've never felt the need to really REALLY look into the 'secrets behind the setting' too much in games. I remembered vaguely that the Fatima's led humanity from the camps of the Z'bri, and MAYBE remember something about 'myths about the origins of the Z'bri' or something...

It's actually a pretty neat cosmology.

At some point, the Z'bri lived "in the Flesh" along with humans. They taught us neat shit, but it caused conflicts and wars and problems. So they forsake the Flesh to become spirit beings. I may be misremembering, but this was a "choice" given to the Z'bri by the Goddess. The Z'bri wound up being remembered in folklore, as gods, etc.

Eventually, mankind started to lose hope, faith and all that happy pizzazz. We forgot about the Z'bri. We lost touch with our spirituality. In an attempt to punish/educate us, the Goddess unleashed the Z'bri on us. In order to be able to stomach her act, she also had to kind of look the other way.

The Z'bri came down, became as gods, were worshipped, etc. but then when they got a taste of the sensations of the flesh - physical and emotional - they went nuts. Realizing that they were out of control, a small group said, "Hey man, we're gonna ruin everything" and a war started between the peaceniks and the "I wanna fuck you like an animal" faction. Guess who won? The remainders of the peaceniks and some human followers went into the wilderness and hatched a plan to trap the Z'bri in the physical realm, in the hopes that would stop the insanity.

The plan failed - when they cut the Z'bri off from the spirit realm, trapping them in their second-hand flesh, they really went nuts. Like drug addicts, the only way they could dull the pain of being cut off was to indulge more...which meant us. They herded humanity into The Camps and the real fun began.

About this time, the Goddess decides it's high time to check in on her kids in time out - and finds everything in shambles. Unable to do anything directly, she arranges for the Fatimas to show up and set things right. So there's the Liberation, mankind throws off the shackles of the Z'bri and is lead to freedom.

The problem is, despite the Goddess' best efforts to shield the Fatimas from the corrupting influences of the world of Flesh (that's why they're made of junk - no fleshy sensations to distract them), they do have free will. The Fatimas have made some choices that don't really jive with the Goddess' master plan, and they really haven't helped some of the huge metaphysical problems that the whole mess is causing. An example was striking a deal with the Z'bri (called the Pact of the Dome) to end the Liberation - they gave up Joshua (the only male Fatima) in exchange for Tibor (the leader of the Z'bri at the time) along with a kind of non-aggression pact. Not the best judgement.

Of course, I don't see Tribe 8 as hopeless...I see it as Exalted turned down to 1 or 2. The PCs are the dredges that can rise up and change the world, instead of shiny happy godlings that can change the world. Like Exalted, the Fallen challenge all of the preconceptions about them - they can work Synthesis and become something *more*, despite Tribal rhetoric about them being soulless and lower than shit. Sure, you can run a Tribe 8 game about being Fallen and trying to find a blanket before you freeze to death or get eaten by a moose, but it's really not the point of the game.

See, I get that, I really do. I may even recall some of the smaller details. The disconnect, aside from presentation, is that DP9 did NOT handle the powers aspect at all.  

Not sure if anyone wants to play a game about finding the blanket before the moose eats you, mind you...

I'm a bit too froggy right now, and lost track of where I was going. Lets just say, if they'd stripped down the setting to the sort of bare bones like you lay out (only, leaving the curtain more intact) and avoided trying to sell splats that were all about that curtain, Tribe 8 could work fine even without super powers... or with a much more integrated power's system.  Salesmanship is all about making the customer want the product, not chasing them off with heaped bizzarity

Quote from: SpikeSee, I get that, I really do. I may even recall some of the smaller details. The disconnect, aside from presentation, is that DP9 did NOT handle the powers aspect at all.

It depends on how you look at it...Synthesis is exceptionally freeform. Perhaps too freeform, and that's what caused the issue. Tribe 8 2e handled things a bit better, but the game was never really "balanced" or had any kind of rigid power creation system. I actually like it quite a bit, but it requires the GM and players to have some kind of consensus on the "feel" and power levels involved. THAT guidance eventually came in the later supplements, but there was a lot of flailing around and confusion in the beginning.

Wil, have you run ever run the Tribe 8 published campaign? If so, did you stick with the originall system or use something else? I'm thinking about running the published campaign, but using another system...

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RWil, have you run ever run the Tribe 8 published campaign? If so, did you stick with the originall system or use something else? I'm thinking about running the published campaign, but using another system...

Regards,
David R

I've run through Children of Lilith and Trial By Fire using Silhouette and the first part of Broken Pact using Tribe 8 2e (i.e., SilCore). Everything works just fine, it's just that Silhouette was really optimized for modern games and by default has some rough edges. A good example are the armor rules; armor increases how much damage you can take, but has encumbrance penalties. Those penalties actually make you get hit harder and suffer worse wounds than if you weren't wearing it. The solution is easy: allow Strength to offset encumbrance penalties and/or specialization in Dodge, Melee, etc. when armored to offset the penalties.

I've heard people mention that The Burning Wheel might be a good substitute system but I don't have it; I also know there is a HeroQuest conversion out there for T8.

Quote from: WilI also know there is a HeroQuest conversion out there for T8.

There are at least three members of my gaming group, who will search the web for this conversion

Regards,
David R

Quote from: WilIt depends on how you look at it...Synthesis is exceptionally freeform. Perhaps too freeform, and that's what caused the issue. .

That is odd. I seem to recall the near exact opposite. Synthesis, as far as I could tell/remember was limited to a single power. Your only choice was which tribe to start from if you were 'gaming' synthesis, but since the powers offered were so incredibly low powered, and often nearly useless it wasn't much of a choice.  If this was meant to be illustrative of synthesis powers the players/GM could develope on their own, it was not clearly stated.  

Of course, I've already illustrated why I am NOT to be taken for an expert on Tribe 8...

Quote from: SpikeThat is odd. I seem to recall the near exact opposite. Synthesis, as far as I could tell/remember was limited to a single power. Your only choice was which tribe to start from if you were 'gaming' synthesis, but since the powers offered were so incredibly low powered, and often nearly useless it wasn't much of a choice.  If this was meant to be illustrative of synthesis powers the players/GM could develope on their own, it was not clearly stated.  

Of course, I've already illustrated why I am NOT to be taken for an expert on Tribe 8...

There are no Synthesis "powers". Each Synthesis user (which was neatly implementeed in Tribe 8 2e - there is a Perk called Awakened Dreamer that encapsulates this) has two Eminences. Eminences are broad spheres of influence - Bravery, Vengeance, Truth, Wisdom, etc. A Dreamer can attempt any Synthesis effect that falls under the banner of one of those Eminences. It was mildly vague, but my guideline was always that you could attempt any effect if you could fit an Eminence into the sentence describing it. So someone jumping across a wide chasm has several different ways of tackling it - it could fall under Motion ("She just floated across"), Mystery ("How the fuck did he get over there?"), Illusion ("This chasm is not as wide as it seems"), Vengence ("You killed my father, prepare to die!"), you get the picture. There are limitations built in - permanent, physical or those that cover a large area/number of people are much more difficult to perform; illusory, temporary or localized (i.e., just the user) effects are easier. The largest limitation is time - Synthesis isn't supposed to be "fire and forget", but you can micro-trance with penalties and there is even a character perk that allows for someone to do it without the penalties.

Tribe 8 2e actually made a lot of inroads into cleaning up the Synthesis rules but the kernel of "if you can dream it up you can try it" has always been there.

I swear, I SWEAR my copy of the book had a power listed, like one of the tribes had some sort of bonus damage like, and forgive the horrible analogy, a 1 dot power from Hunter:the reckoning or some such...  Maybe I just wasn't used to thinking 'free form' from DP9 and missed the key lines of text, but I always got it as 'this is what you can do' and that was that. :confused:

Quote from: SpikeI swear, I SWEAR my copy of the book had a power listed, like one of the tribes had some sort of bonus damage like, and forgive the horrible analogy, a 1 dot power from Hunter:the reckoning or some such...  Maybe I just wasn't used to thinking 'free form' from DP9 and missed the key lines of text, but I always got it as 'this is what you can do' and that was that. :confused:

You're thinking of Aspects, which are formulaic applications of Synthesis. They are predictable, somewhat more powerful than standard Synthesis - they are also limited only to members of what amount to the priesthoods of the Tribes.

The breakdown goes like this:

Conjunctional effects: ANY character with an Eminence may gain a +2 to bonus to any task that directly relates to that Eminence, once per session.

Conjunctional Synthesis: Freeform ability to bring dreamlike effects into the real world. The only limitation is that the effect must relate to one of the character's Eminences, as you can see from my example there is a lot of slush room.

Aspects: Formulaic Synthesis effects that are somewhat like spells.

Note that Synthesis has no "points", "times per day", "fatigue" or any other limitation on how often it can be used. There is a very real chance that if you fail miserably enough, that you will suffer negative consequences ranging from mild disorientation to your soul being sucked from your body.