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Traveller trading game in the modern day

Started by Kyle Aaron, November 29, 2006, 10:34:40 PM

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Kyle Aaron

It was this thread that laid the seed that grew into GAMERS. It got me thinking about classic Trav, buying the reprints, finding the rules a bit wonky and wanting to "improve" them (ie make them fit my personal tastes). So naturally I will use that.
The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver

Benoist

I had my first look at GAMERS by the way. :o Looks pretty good! I like d6 mechanics.

Do you know Spellcraft & Swordplay?
It's an OD&D retroclone using d6 mechanics. Here's the Free PDF.

RockViper

Check out the Anime Black Lagoon its about modern day pirates in the South China Sea.
"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness."

Terry Pratchett (Men at Arms)

Kyle Aaron

Someone on another forum linked to this thread, which in all honesty I had completely forgotten about.

It's still a fun concept, and events in more recent years would provide even more opportunities for adventurous types to make a profit, if they are, shall we say, of a more malleable ethical disposition.
The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver

Mishihari

Usually not a fan of necros, but thanks 'cause HOLY CRAP that's an awesome idea.

I'd really like to see it as a full game in its own right though, not just a modern age veneer on top of Traveller.  Maybe I'll take this on after I finish my current game.

Scooter

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on November 29, 2006, 10:34:40 PM

Madness or genius? What do you reckon?

Neither. But that is a smuggling game not a trading game.  FAR more fun than a standard Trav trading game.
There is no saving throw vs. stupidity

Greentongue

By modern could you also mean Pulp? Tramp Steamer?

BadApple

I'm a RL merchant seaman.  For anyone that's interested, I could give a lot of insight on how modern shipping works.  I'm happy to answer questions about it.  But, on to what I think is relevant to this thread.

First, ships don't disappear between ports, they are tracked by satellites and radio through their entire voyage by giving GPS updates by both HF burst transmission and satellite UHF burst at a minimum of every hour.  (This burst contains location, speed, direction, ship's ID, and any report-able condition of the vessel.)  On top of which, various governments will focus tracking in various ways on any ship that catches their attention.  It is a big ocean but you'd be shocked on how much of it is monitored well.  Dipping over the horizon and disappearing isn't easy.

The scene in Lord of War where they paint a new name on the ship and change the flag wouldn't work due to transponder codes in all the electronics and IMO numbers literally welded onto the hull in several places.  I'm not saying they couldn't spoof all of that but it would take weeks of work to pull it off.  To be able to change the identity of a ship so that it will pass through a customs or Coast Guard inspection would be a massive amount of work for both physically changing the ship and then making all the paperwork match.  IRL efforts to do this get caught all the time. 

Every ship has to have a manifest on the ship, at the HQ of the shipping company or dispatching company that loaded the ship, and at the last port they visited.  Only cargo marked with diplomatic seals are exempt from detailed inventory on the manifest.   

Lastly, ships have to register a voyage with intended route, ports to visit, and expected schedule.  Deviate from the rout and you will have to answer for it.  There are legal and illegal ways to vary from the registered voyage and fines and prison sentences can happen for the illegal deviations. 

You can actually monitor ships through their public information on vesselfinder.com and marinetraffic.com.

Tramp ships are still a thing.  Contrary to what I've read in this thread, most tramps are not general cargo ships but specialty ships.  Heavy lift ships are ships with cranes capable of 500t lifts like The Ocean Freedom.  https://www./vessels/details/9506722  Semi submersible ships are vessels that can carry other vessels by flooding ballast tanks, getting under their load, and re-floating.  https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/9186338  Specialty tankers carry liquid cargo other than typical fuel.

Most standard cargo ships and tank ships have a regular route and most cargo can by shuttled via the comprehensive network of ships and ports that exist now.

I am not trying to discourage a career in smuggling in your RPG.  If you're looking at doing it realistically, then look how the drug trade functions internationally.  Rather than being freebooters, you'll be in the business of packing shipping containers to get by scrutiny, offering up bribes and blackmailing officials and ship's captains, and generally manipulating the situations in legitimate shipping ports and vessels.  If you are hell bent on running your own vessel, then take inspiration from the narco submarines and semi-submersibles.

Anyway, I hope this is useful to someone.   
>Blade Runner RPG
Terrible idea, overwhelming majority of ttrpg players can't pass Voight-Kampff test.
    - Anonymous

Scooter

Quote from: BadApple on October 13, 2023, 05:54:36 PM

I am not trying to discourage a career in smuggling in your RPG.  If you're looking at doing it realistically, then look how the drug trade functions internationally.   

This worlds oceans and interstellar space travel are VASTLY different.  Looking how trade happens on Earth may or may not have any bearing on what happens in a Traveller type environment.  Perhaps if you use the default setting.
There is no saving throw vs. stupidity

Tod13

Quote from: BadApple on October 13, 2023, 05:54:36 PM
<snip>
Anyway, I hope this is useful to someone.   
Thank you. This is actually both cool and useful information. Even if we don't use it in an RPG it makes neat information for a potential story or novel. It was my thought earlier on that blackmailing or bribing someone was probably easier than redoing everything about a ship.

Tod13

Quote from: BadApple on October 13, 2023, 05:54:36 PM
I'm a RL merchant seaman.  For anyone that's interested, I could give a lot of insight on how modern shipping works.  I'm happy to answer questions about it.  But, on to what I think is relevant to this thread.
<snip>
Is there a book (fiction or otherwise) or website you recommend that gives a realistic-ish idea of your work?

Kyle Aaron

Quote from: BadApple on October 13, 2023, 05:54:36 PM
First, ships don't disappear between ports, they are tracked by satellites and radio through their entire voyage
Oil smuggling and bunkering for sanctions-busting, along with illegal fishing on a vast scale (which is how we got Somali piracy, with EU/Japanese ships stealing all their fish, Somali fishermen found alternate employment), suggests that this is not always true.

But a very helpful comment, thankyou.
The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver

Tod13

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on October 13, 2023, 07:44:53 PM
Quote from: BadApple on October 13, 2023, 05:54:36 PM
First, ships don't disappear between ports, they are tracked by satellites and radio through their entire voyage
Oil smuggling and bunkering for sanctions-busting, along with illegal fishing on a vast scale (which is how we got Somali piracy, with EU/Japanese ships stealing all their fish, Somali fishermen found alternate employment), suggests that this is not always true.

But a very helpful comment, thankyou.
Oooh! Same question, anything in written form about this? (I have divergent reading interests...)

BadApple

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on October 13, 2023, 07:44:53 PM
Quote from: BadApple on October 13, 2023, 05:54:36 PM
First, ships don't disappear between ports, they are tracked by satellites and radio through their entire voyage
Oil smuggling and bunkering for sanctions-busting, along with illegal fishing on a vast scale (which is how we got Somali piracy, with EU/Japanese ships stealing all their fish, Somali fishermen found alternate employment), suggests that this is not always true.

But a very helpful comment, thankyou.

First, there isn't a global maritime law enforcement agency.  It's done ad hoc by navies, coast guards, and customs around the world.  As such, there's lots of holes in enforcement.  Bribes to local officials and favors to dirty governments allows criminal networks to operate.  I'd like to say that it's an issue for poor countries but even the G7 nations are involved. 

Believe me, some of the ships that are involved in criminal enterprise are known and will get locked down as soon as they hit a port or just enter territorial waters of an authority that has an interest in enforcement.

In some cases, there is real effort to disguise ships.  Stolen vessels are sometimes used and the criminals will go so far as to do all the things I mentions to make it look like another ship altogether. 

There are thousands of vessels that operate on open water.  No one is going to watch them all 100% of the time.  Shenanigans do happen but if you have been identified as a vessel of interest it's likely you will eventually be boarded and get caught.

Can you run a smuggling operations between N. Korea and Indonesia?  Yes, if you grease the right palms.  Are you going to run a route between Seattle and Pyongyang? No unless you're underwritten by the US State Dept.

If I was going to smuggle iPhones into N. Korea, I would send them to Gebal Ali, UAE then to Pakistan, and then by grain ship to N. Korea.  This would bypass a lot of the sanction controls.  I would also say that you're going to have to engage in a bunch of money laundering to be able to spend it freely in the international financial sector.  I wouldn't even try to get that money into the US, Canada, UK or Germany.

Quote from: Tod13 on October 13, 2023, 07:13:36 PM
Is there a book (fiction or otherwise) or website you recommend that gives a realistic-ish idea of your work?

There's a few books I'd recommend. 

   Two Years Before the Mast - Richard M. Dana
   Ashley's Book of Knots - Clifford W. Ashley
   U-Boat 977 - Heinz Schaeffer
   Any book by Captain Frederick Marryat
   USN Basic Military Requirements NAVEDTRA 14325
   Merchant Marine Officer's Handbook

Quote from: Scooter on October 13, 2023, 06:55:18 PM
Quote from: BadApple on October 13, 2023, 05:54:36 PM

I am not trying to discourage a career in smuggling in your RPG.  If you're looking at doing it realistically, then look how the drug trade functions internationally.   

This worlds oceans and interstellar space travel are VASTLY different.  Looking how trade happens on Earth may or may not have any bearing on what happens in a Traveller type environment.  Perhaps if you use the default setting.

This comment was less than worthless. 

Space commerce would most definitely take on a lot of characteristics of maritime trade.  How much?  Dunno, there's a lot of new tech and techniques that could be developed beyond our ability to predict.  However, what happens now is an excellent model to work from to make an educated guess.   
>Blade Runner RPG
Terrible idea, overwhelming majority of ttrpg players can't pass Voight-Kampff test.
    - Anonymous

Scooter

Quote from: BadApple on October 13, 2023, 09:37:24 PM

This comment was less than worthless. 

Space commerce would most definitely take on a lot of characteristics of maritime trade.  How much?  Dunno, there's a lot of new tech and techniques that could be developed beyond our ability to predict.  However, what happens now is an excellent model to work from to make an educated guess.

Wrong brainless git.  It is an axiomatic comment.  Now rent at least a 5th grade education.
There is no saving throw vs. stupidity