Quote from: SionEwigThey did have a mention of Skill-0 (sort of) in Book 1.

QuoteAll player-characters have an innate weapons expertise, in all weapons, of zero. Acquisition of a weapons skill boosts this to level-1. Additional acquisitions of expertise increase the present level by one.

Emphasis is mine.

Interesting.  I'd forgotten all about that one tiny paragraph.  Oh, and as a bit of trivia, my 1st edition copy here, bought in the summer of 1980, states "of one-half" where your copy states "of zero".  I'm willing to bet that your copy of Book 2 makes the change from 1/2-level skills to 0-level skills under the section for weapons expertise in the Experience section.

Anyway, more to the point, we should revise our Skill-0 rule to exclude personal weapon skills, all of which are automatically rated at 0-level.  Thanks for the heads-up!

!i!

Quote from: WerekoalaOkay, I have the IRC program - what channel?

#therpgsite on the MagicStar server.  Go ahead and PM times and nights you're available to talk.

Okay, cats.  Let me lay this on you and see who jives.  It's my earliest iteration of the UPP, or Universal Port Profile.  The prototype, if you will.  Format is as follows:
   X-123AIR-4
X refers to the port type, with appropriate current-day analogs to starport types A, B, C, D, E, and X.
1 refers to the Population of the host city that supports the port, rated from 0 to 9, but not likely to ever exceed 7.
2 refers to the Government type of the host nation, or the city itself if it is operated effectively as an independent entity (e.g. Hong Kong, Singapore).  Rated 0 to D, and are unchanged from those described in Book 3.  The only odd ones seem to be 5 - Feudal Technocracy, and 7 - Balkanisation.  Can anyone think of a modern city that's run under a Feudal Technocracy?  Or a maritime nation that wouldn't be better described as government 0 - "No government structure"?
3 refers to Law Level, rated 0 to 9, unchanged from the list in Book 3.
A refers to Agricultural Trade Index, the degree to which the port serves as a point of export for agricultural goods, dependent upon the agricultural output of the host nation.  Rated "A" for Agricultural, "N" for Non-agricultural, and 0 for no significant classification.  These ratings serve the exact same purpose as the World Type trade classifications from Book 2.
I refers to Industrial Trade Index, in exactly the same fashion as the Agricultural Trade Index above.  Rated "I" for industrial, "N" for Non-industrial, and 0 for no significant classification.
R refers to the Affluence Index, the relative wealth that the host nation channels into the port operations and/or the host city.  Rated "R" for Rich, "P" for Poor, and 0 for no significant classification.
4 refers to Tech Level, which I haven't really worked out yet.  For the time being, assume that it fits the general mold of the table presented in Book 3.  Probably rated 0 through 9, don't you think? Minus the air-rafts and starships, of course.

As an example, I toyed about with statting up Singapore, a highly affluent little city-state that hosts the key port between the Indian Ocean and the South China Sea.  Looking up some almanac figures, I took this stab:

Singapore : A-648NIR-9
Port type A, excellent facilities with full maintenence and repair facilities for both commercial and private craft.
Population 6, or between 1,000,000 and 10,000,000.  Singapore has a population of approximately 4.3 million.
Government type 4, Representative Democracy.
Law Level 8, possession of weapons strictly controlled, but not forbidden.  It is a notoriously stringent city that has banned non-theraputic chewing gum.
Non-agricultural, requiring large scale import of food stuffs and textiles.
Industrial, exporting huge quantities of locally produced electronic goods.
Rich.
TL 9, highly technically developed -- on par with virtually any "1st World" nation.

With this write-up, one would be able to ascertain an at-a-glance overview of the city, and could feasibly use the trade table in Book 2 to purchase or sell cargos (provided one stats up another port, of course).  It'll take a little while to get your head out of the groove of thinking in terms of planetary stats, but once the mental adaptation has been made, I think it will flow well.

What do you think?  Anyone care to stat up Manila?  Hong Kong? Bangkok?

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaInteresting.  I'd forgotten all about that one tiny paragraph.  Oh, and as a bit of trivia, my 1st edition copy here, bought in the summer of 1980, states "of one-half" where your copy states "of zero".  I'm willing to bet that your copy of Book 2 makes the change from 1/2-level skills to 0-level skills under the section for weapons expertise in the Experience section.

Mine is the 1981 second edition, and yes, it makes the change from skill-1/2 to skill-0, but I would still swear that the skill-1/2 is talked about somewhere in it.

And I just happened to notice the weapons things in Book-1

QuoteAnyway, more to the point, we should revise our Skill-0 rule to exclude personal weapon skills, all of which are automatically rated at 0-level.  Thanks for the heads-up!

!i!

Sounds good to me, though I would strongly prefer it if this applied ONLY to small arms.

Quote from: SionEwigSounds good to me, though I would strongly prefer it if this applied ONLY to small arms.

You mean the official statement from Book 1 about "in all weapons"?  Yeah.  I can see the hurt in the eyes of the well-meaning player, his finger poised above the weapons list in Book 4, Mercenary, and some poor GM having to explain why it just doesn't make sense for his 4-term Scout to be familiar with the use of a FGMP-15.

Hey!  How 'bout that UPP, though?  Huh?

!i!

Love the UPP, excellent job there.  Still looking at it for some fine tuning, mainly thinking that since we know (or can look up) stuff on each port, down to detailed maps, that perhaps a note section for each entry might be appropriate.

And since we do know about the ports and countries they support/are a part of, it will help a lot on the Trade side.  We will know pretty much what goods are available at many if not most ports.

Also, on a slight tangent, lots of things are going to require Import/Export liscenses and End-User certificates (especially arms and military equipment).

But love the UPP, may start some work on some of the smaller places out there.

Quote from: SionEwigLove the UPP, excellent job there.  Still looking at it for some fine tuning, mainly thinking that since we know (or can look up) stuff on each port, down to detailed maps, that perhaps a note section for each entry might be appropriate.

I expect that, unlike the spare presentation in Supplement 3, The Spinward Marches, each port entry will probably comprise a two- or three-page spread with brief history, political and social climate, geographic climate, etc.  Explanation of each entry on the UPP will probably be folded into that.

Hey, speaking of geographic climate, wouldn't it make sense to include that as a pertinent index in the UPP?  Tropical, Sub-Tropical, Arctic, Arid, etc.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI expect that, unlike the spare presentation in Supplement 3, The Spinward Marches, each port entry will probably comprise a two- or three-page spread with brief history, political and social climate, geographic climate, etc.  Explanation of each entry on the UPP will probably be folded into that.

Hey, speaking of geographic climate, wouldn't it make sense to include that as a pertinent index in the UPP?  Tropical, Sub-Tropical, Arctic, Arid, etc.

!i!

Hmmm, yeah, I think something for the climate might be useful.  Again, followed by something of a paragraph or so within the larger entry.  Cause let's face it, some ports have some pretty big varience in their climate.

And there's a distinct difference in what they import/export and why.  It will have a definite influence in the form of trade modifiers on the Trade and Speculation table.

!i!

(P.S. The CIA World Factbook.  Learn it.  Love it.)

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAnd there's a distinct difference in what they import/export and why.  It will have a definite influence in the form of trade modifiers on the Trade and Speculation table.

!i!

Yup, and it is coming to mind that there will probably be much less speculation than would be normal in Traveller.  Or at least much more educated speculation.

Quote(P.S. The CIA World Factbook.  Learn it.  Love it.)

Love it, use it lots. Great resource (but should not be the only one, LOL).

Quote from: SionEwigYup, and it is coming to mind that there will probably be much less speculation than would be normal in Traveller.  Or at least much more educated speculation.

You've obviously never encountered the black or grey market economies. Technically, the black market is in good which are stolen, prohibited or restricted; the grey market is goods which are quite legal and freely traded, but have taxes and so on. Those are the markets your average PCs will be wanting to deal with - because that's adventurous, just hauling a couple of hundred cars from Hong Kong to Singapore under contract from Honda with all the right paperwork and taxes paid isn't very adventurous, normally.  

When dealing with the black and grey markets, trading is very speculative. Were I GMing this, I'd make it part of the campaign.
   
"What's there for you to buy at Kowloon? Well, on the legit side there's a bunch of cars made in China under licence from Honda, a heap of DVD players, and some clothing."
"Our next port of call is Djibouti, we have to go there and meet Sheik Alabani and make our next payment. Those guys do trade with Somaliland, and Somalia, and Ethiopia. I don't think any of them will be that interested in cars, DVD players - hell, most of 'em don't have 'lectricity - and clothing, okay everyone needs clothing but we're not going to fill the whole ship with the stuff, 330 tonnes of clothing, that's mad. What about the illegit side?"
"As you know, China is not overly scrupulous about international patents and copyright. So you can score some medicines, because they're copies and no royalty fee, much cheaper. Like this flu vaccine for a dollar a hit instead of a hundred."
"Sounds good! How much for a pallet?"
"Fifty thousand. That's fifty thousand hits of the flu vaccine."
"Cool, we can flog that to the Red Cross in Djibouti for at least twenty bucks a pop, no-one's going to arrest us for "helping" the Red Cross."

And so on...

Random comment on the grey market:  Selling video games to Australia.

I'm serious.  The mark-up a lot of console makers put on game systems and games for Aussie release is completely ridiculous, to the extent that a good percentage of Aussie gamers get all their games shipped in from Asia somewhere, usually Japan, and the Aussie gov't turns kind of a blind eye to it in spite of the protests of the corporations.

You can further bump up your profit margins if you can find some really good fakes of games over in Hong Kong and China, then passing them off for legit copy prices, while still undercutting the official MSRP for retail Aussie games.

Quote from: JimBobOzYou've obviously never encountered the black or grey market economies. Technically, the black market is in good which are stolen, prohibited or restricted; the grey market is goods which are quite legal and freely traded, but have taxes and so on. Those are the markets your average PCs will be wanting to deal with - because that's adventurous, just hauling a couple of hundred cars from Hong Kong to Singapore under contract from Honda with all the right paperwork and taxes paid isn't very adventurous, normally.  

When dealing with the black and grey markets, trading is very speculative. Were I GMing this, I'd make it part of the campaign.
   
"What's there for you to buy at Kowloon? Well, on the legit side there's a bunch of cars made in China under licence from Honda, a heap of DVD players, and some clothing."
"Our next port of call is Djibouti, we have to go there and meet Sheik Alabani and make our next payment. Those guys do trade with Somaliland, and Somalia, and Ethiopia. I don't think any of them will be that interested in cars, DVD players - hell, most of 'em don't have 'lectricity - and clothing, okay everyone needs clothing but we're not going to fill the whole ship with the stuff, 330 tonnes of clothing, that's mad. What about the illegit side?"
"As you know, China is not overly scrupulous about international patents and copyright. So you can score some medicines, because they're copies and no royalty fee, much cheaper. Like this flu vaccine for a dollar a hit instead of a hundred."
"Sounds good! How much for a pallet?"
"Fifty thousand. That's fifty thousand hits of the flu vaccine."
"Cool, we can flog that to the Red Cross in Djibouti for at least twenty bucks a pop, no-one's going to arrest us for "helping" the Red Cross."

And so on...

No, actually I have encountered both black and grey markets a bit.  Spent a number of years working down in South America, Columbia and Brazil mostly but occasional trips and surveys into most of the area.

My statement about speculation was purely about LEGAL cargos.  And yes, if I was running this, I'd have (or at least allow) the players to work on the black and grey markets as much as they wanted.  At leasy until some Customs Official who just had a big fight with his wife comes around!:eek:

Mate, the only reason to have legal cargos is to provide cover for the illegal ones!

Quote from: fonkaygarryAny ideas on how to get an adventure going with this setting?  There's no shortage of crazy shit to drop PCs into with this, I'm just at a loss for how to present or pace it.

Seems pretty much the same as the classic Traveller crew of misfits on a leaky patched rustbucket ship. Also the same as an Age of Sail game. Common need for cash, some sort of past that led you to now, and at least one week between trading ports.

If the trading system follows most Traveller ones the party will need to supplement their income from legal trade by other means, i.e. Adventure!

Traveller isn't a lot of things but it *is* quite playable with a focus on player action.

Quote from: SionEwigAdditional "skill" that came to mind that would be very necessary (and one that Traveller almost never brings up) - Languages!

JTAS#16, "Languages in Traveller" expands upon dialects, fluency, and language useage in Traveller.

MT's Linguistics skill is 1 rank = 1 language known.