Quote from: darThis is starting to remind me of this thread.

The only thing I get from that thread is why you don't use D20 for anything but D&D . . .

Yep, because as we all know, the perfect system to simulate katanas would be third edition GURPS.

Quote from: SosthenesYep, because as we all know, the perfect system to simulate katanas would be third edition GURPS.

Wow.  there's some serious conclusion-jumping in that post.  did you use the mat, or come up with that all by yourself?

Quote from: J ArcaneWow.  there's some serious conclusion-jumping in that post.  did you use the mat, or come up with that all by yourself?

Yef fur, me brain still 'urtin. You're not aware of the endless threads about katanas in GURPS 3E? Oh, what fun you've missed...

But to get back on topic, is anyone aware of some explanation for swords in SF that actually made sense? I'm perfectly content with a hand-waving explanation that guarantees some old-fashioned combat.

Did some hard sf actually pull it off?

Quote from: SosthenesYef fur, me brain still 'urtin. You're not aware of the endless threads about katanas in GURPS 3E? Oh, what fun you've missed...

Ahh.  No, I missed the reference entirely.  I thought you were referring to the silly "D20 vs. GURPS" fued that was all the rage here last week, which I thankfully avoided.  

QuoteBut to get back on topic, is anyone aware of some explanation for swords in SF that actually made sense? I'm perfectly content with a hand-waving explanation that guarantees some old-fashioned combat.

Did some hard sf actually pull it off?

Like I said upthread, I always like the "ships' hulls are fragile and guns poke holes in them" solution.  It even has actual historical precident (to an extent) in terrestrial naval traditions.  

Mind you, that still leaves no excuse for them whatsoever in ground combat situations.  And it also doesn't work for the lightsabers in Star Wars, for which there's really no excuse.

Quote from: J ArcaneSwords are also less likely to puncture through ship hulls.  This is the same reason why shotguns are in such common use on naval ships, buckshot is lethal in great number to a person, but the individual pellets do nothing to ships walls.

Mind, Star Wars' lightsabers botch that theory all up by going and making them the most powerful weapons in the universe ...

In my traveller setting one basic commonsense rule of shipboard wepons was avoid projectiles; they either cause a hull breach or bounce around inside. leads to lots of hand to hand which gives shipboard combat a different feel than palnetary action.

I've read somewhere where guns WERE used in space. Along with swords and knives. Only the guns weren't weapons, they were used as hand rockets and loaded with blanks. I think in zero G it might prove difficult to use a gun in combat for those very same reasons. Gives a new meaning to 'pocket rocket'.

Thre's an old Robert Silverburg novel where they have guns like that "Revolt on Alpha Centauri" maybe?
it's a cool idea, i think i may have to incorporate it into a game... thanks for brining it up.

Quote from: AosIn my traveller setting one basic commonsense rule of shipboard wepons was avoid projectiles; they either cause a hull breach or bounce around inside. leads to lots of hand to hand which gives shipboard combat a different feel than palnetary action.

That's a a nice excuse, but even now we have some projectiles which avoid this problem. Decent eletrical shielding for the ship and some cattle prods/tasers would probably be a better solution than fisticuffs and fencing (not as cool, but we're talking hard SF right now).

Once attackers are getting heavily armored, things might be difficult. Getting through their protection while keeping the ship intact is kinda difficult.

Quote from: Sosthenes(not as cool, but we're talking hard SF right now).

sorry

/returns to the wall behind the bleachers.

I'm not sure what your ships are made of, but mine sustain 3g constant acceleration and protect me from the radiation of nearby stars in flux.  They get shot at with high powered lasers, fligh through sandcaster clouds, and shrug off the occasional proximity missile detonation.  They can take a bullet with ease.

As for zero G, the momentum imparted by a bullet is extremely small -- it seems unlikely that they would be useful for propulsion (certainly not with blanks, which would cut the momentum down dramatically) or a significant problem for stability.  You're only talking 8 grams at a 500 meters per second or so (that's 4 kg-m/s), which isn't going to adjust your 100kg body much (your velocity changes by 4cm/s).  Maybe stay away from machineguns unless you have your back to a wall.

Quote from: SosthenesOnce attackers are getting heavily armored, things might be difficult. Getting through their protection while keeping the ship intact is kinda difficult.

I'm hoping the ship is better armoured than the marines, but in Traveller that could get iffy, yeah.  TL15 battle dress might well out-perform a TL10 scout hull.  Certainly I don't want anyone shooting fusion guns around.

Quote from: HalfjackI'm not sure what your ships are made of, but mine sustain 3g constant acceleration and protect me from the radiation of nearby stars in flux.  They get shot at with high powered lasers, fligh through sandcaster clouds, and shrug off the occasional proximity missile detonation.  They can take a bullet with ease.

As for zero G, the momentum imparted by a bullet is extremely small -- it seems unlikely that they would be useful for propulsion (certainly not with blanks, which would cut the momentum down dramatically) or a significant problem for stability.  You're only talking 8 grams at a 500 meters per second or so (that's 4 kg-m/s), which isn't going to adjust your 100kg body much (your velocity changes by 4cm/s).  Maybe stay away from machineguns unless you have your back to a wall.

I was going to make the point about "who was talking about bullets?", suggesting that it's a bit silly to assume bullets are even in use, and then you confuse me by answering your first paragraph with your second by beating me to the bunch.

Quote from: SosthenesYep, because as we all know, the perfect system to simulate katanas would be third edition GURPS.

 NO - 4th edition GURPS:MARTIAL ARTS coming soon.

Quote from: J ArcaneI was going to make the point about "who was talking about bullets?", suggesting that it's a bit silly to assume bullets are even in use, and then you confuse me by answering your first paragraph with your second by beating me to the bunch.

Well the question was about why one would use swords or hand to hand combat and while one might preclude fusion guns for their penetrating effects that still leaves a wide range of weapons that are a lot better than a cutlass and not as dangerous as a fusion gun.  And almost all of them shoot bullets in Traveller.  So I guessed that was the concern.

Now that I think about it, though, a hull breach is not that big a concern, but unloading a cloud of double ought into some valuable electronics might be.  Not sure swinging a cutlass around in close quarters is much improvement though.