So, Classic Traveller takes random chargen to new heights, you don't even pick your skills.

However, it is assumed that the PCs will be part of a party who adventure together.

Trouble is, there is no particular likelihood that they won't be missing some key skills, overlapping on others, that some PCs might have only a subset of lower value skills that another PC is better at, that anyone will have any relevant skills at all.

So, for the Traveller heads out there, how did you deal with those issues?

I ask as I'm vaguely considering using Traveller to run a 1930s tramp steamer in the South Seas game, but it suddenly occurred to me I couldn't be sure anyone would have any remotely relevant skills.

When I played it for the first time with you, I was amazed at how incompetent our characters turned out.  We both had two skills at 1 and were dumped into play as viable characters.

Is the point not that you keep being killed and re-rolling until you get a playable character?

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalWhen I played it for the first time with you, I was amazed at how incompetent our characters turned out.  We both had two skills at 1 and were dumped into play as viable characters.

Is the point not that you keep being killed and re-rolling until you get a playable character?

Not necessarily, the point is you take what you get, which is why although I was a bit surprised by how you both got kicked out at 22 we played with what you got.

You may hope that your dweeb character will die in chargen, but if the dice say he musters out then he musters out.

Equally, you might be happy with your character, but the dice can say he is forced to serve another term and then that he dies during it, even though you would happily have played him.

It's a very different philosophy, basically I think the idea is you get a guy who could exist in that world, an ordinary punter, and then you play what you get.

I actually rather liked the characters you guys got, but then I love Traveller.

As far as I can tell it is a common practice to do group chargen and to keep generating PCs until you have something resembling a working team.

Ships need crews, corporations need troubleshooters, scouts need support, etc.  Frankly, I just kind of play it by ear and don't worry overmuch; I let the players roll up whatever they want and think of an banding excuse on-the-spot.  I might tell them ahead of time, "You'll be a ship crew" or something, and I might let them swap out, say, Mechanical-1 for Pilot-1 if the latter's more useful.  

Then again, I don't actually GAME much, but that's changing.

That was a really good game.  Even if I completely lost Tom by suddenly deciding to go and do something really moral rather than line my pockets as is our usual MO.

I think the key is the structuring of the employment market.  You took the view that most people are going to be hick farmers so anyone with ANY knowledge of space ships or astronavigation is going to be prized no matter how rubbish they are.

I suspect that this idea could happily underpin a 30's tramp freighter game.  you get a bunch of people... some with useful skills others with enough about them to make themselves look valuable and they go into business.  If they are really skilled then they'll wind up getting the good contracts and hauling the expensive goods.  Meanwhile if the ship doesn't have a mechanic it'll be prone to breaking down making the company less reliable, ditto for lacking a decent ship's pilot.  Similarly, if nobody knows how to fight then they'd be foolish to take a job that would lead to them being attacked.

I think the key idea is to remember that Traveller characters are working stiffs and not necessarily heroes.  If someone does roll up a fleet admiral with a PhD in plasma-weaponry then they'd be suitably more valuable.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalThat was a really good game.  Even if I completely lost Tom by suddenly deciding to go and do something really moral rather than line my pockets as is our usual MO.

I think the key is the structuring of the employment market.  You took the view that most people are going to be hick farmers so anyone with ANY knowledge of space ships or astronavigation is going to be prized no matter how rubbish they are.

I suspect that this idea could happily underpin a 30's tramp freighter game.  you get a bunch of people... some with useful skills others with enough about them to make themselves look valuable and they go into business.  If they are really skilled then they'll wind up getting the good contracts and hauling the expensive goods.  Meanwhile if the ship doesn't have a mechanic it'll be prone to breaking down making the company less reliable, ditto for lacking a decent ship's pilot.  Similarly, if nobody knows how to fight then they'd be foolish to take a job that would lead to them being attacked.

I think the key idea is to remember that Traveller characters are working stiffs and not necessarily heroes.  If someone does roll up a fleet admiral with a PhD in plasma-weaponry then they'd be suitably more valuable.

Yeah, shame the characters got lost, I'd happily run more Traveller.  The moral option was intentionally there as a potential choice by the way, the idea was to create some potential conflicts and see which ones got taken up by the players.

As for the characters, there is always a demand for people with technical skills, it's just that if the skills aren't especially good you'll be getting a less well paid kind of work.

Working stiffs is spot on, Traveller is the game of working stiffs in space, the characters are ordinary people who live in an extraordinary world.

Use all the books (Scouts, Mercenary, Merchant Prince...). That'll yield competent, individualized PCs with lots of "stray" skills, like a commando who somehow picked up Electronics-1.

On the downside, given your setting, you'd have to generate those detailed career paths yourself... But then, I guess you'd have to do some of that in any case. Or are you just going to use CotI?

In that case, Doc R's method rings true: Do chargen together, in hardcore random fashion. Then have the adventure rationalize the randomness. How come those guys, of all people, ended up together in that bar in Tahiti? How come this guy is a sailor when he can't even, well, sail?

Balbinus, bless your heart for starting this thread for me.  After yesterday's exchange, I'd been thinking that I needed to start a thread to ponder Traveller character generation and skill competency.

First, I've dug out two primary references -- Book 1: Characters and Combat and Supplement 4: Citizens of the Imperium.  Between these two books (especially CotI), I think you have pretty good coverage of the backgrounds necessary for adventure in a "modern" (read: "low tech") adventure, essentially without modification.  You keep Army, Marines, Merchants, and Other (*snicker*) from Book 1, replace Navy with Sailors from CotI, drop Scouts (or is there a reasonable analogue?), and you're good to go.  The other careers from CotI flesh out options nicely, from big game hunters to primitive tribesmen.

Second, I've wondered what to do about actual character generation.  Do the basic books provide enough of a skill base?  I'm generally of the opinion that the advanced chargen from Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts, and Merchant Prince overdoes the job, producing cluttered characters without really adding significant nuance.  Something in between, leaning toward basic chargen but providing more assurance of career competency, would be nice.  There are lots of different house rules on the matter out there on the Internet, but I don't believe I've come across one that rally does the trick for me.  What would be good?  A fifth skill table? (which, if I recall correctly, was something akin to the solution used in the stillborn T4)  A bonus skill roll for each Term?

!i!

Ian, I have been toying with the idea that general competency could be handled by using one's terms of service as skill ranks.  For situations where no skill in the small list covers the problem, but it is clearly something that should be covered by one of more careers, simple treat the number of terms served as the skill rank.

This idea handily side-steps all the folks who want to develop a large skill tree just so Scientists can have science skills.

Use Megatraveller´s bonus skill roll.

Quote from: jrientsIan, I have been toying with the idea that general competency could be handled by using one's terms of service as skill ranks.  For situations where no skill in the small list covers the problem, but it is clearly something that should be covered by one of more careers, simple treat the number of terms served as the skill rank.

So, in effect, the number of terms your character serves translates as a sort of default Jack-o-T skill, but not actually Jack-o-T itself.  Borrowing a more modern game design concept, it might be like a Keyword from HeroQuest or a broad ability from Over the Edge, Like "Merchant-2", which would be applicable (with suitable negative modifiers) to any skill that falls within the Merchant skill tree.

How about this?  Anyone recall the Skill-0 rule that was introduced in a number of the LBBs?*  Having a skill rank in one specific skill would impart a level of Skill-0 in a closely related, but untrained, skill.  A 0-level skill didn't allow for any benefits, but it hand-waved the need for any penalties.  Perhaps any character that has served more than two terms in their chosen career earns Career-0, representing a rough, unskilled familiarity with the general career tree.  Limit this to the first three Acquired Skills Tables (excluding the last table for EDU 8+), and I think you're golden.

!i!

[*Edit:  Now that I think about it, I believe it was in a number of the LBB adventures where the Skill-0 rule was introduced, for the very reason that we're discussing here.  The weird computer-generated pre-gen characters they insisted on using (Merchant, 7 terms, DEX 1, Admin-6, on a paramilitary mission :rolleyes: ) often lacked the skills needed for the adventure, or assuming that players' existing characters might not have all the necessary skills, they allowed for 0-levels to make the adventure work.]

Quote from: SettembriniUse Megatraveller´s bonus skill roll.

What is this blasphemy of which you speak, Mega-infidel?

!i!

Quote from: BalbinusSo, Classic Traveller takes random chargen to new heights, you don't even pick your skills.

However, it is assumed that the PCs will be part of a party who adventure together.

Trouble is, there is no particular likelihood that they won't be missing some key skills, overlapping on others, that some PCs might have only a subset of lower value skills that another PC is better at, that anyone will have any relevant skills at all.

So, for the Traveller heads out there, how did you deal with those issues?

Well, you could pick your service, which gave you pretty good odds to get skills you wanted or needed. Service was usually a campaign-driving quality. If you wanted to run a mercenaries game, you had the players roll army or marine characters. Tramp freighters usually ran the way of navy, scouts, or merchants.

Further, rolling multiple characters and picking the one you want was usually tolerated.

Finally, I have to say that if there is one game system that had a telling and unique influence on my GMing style, it was Traveller. Because, you see, you learned to do with what was available, and became tolerant of alternate solutions to problems.


That said, inasmuch as the problem did exist, this was one reason (among many) that I preferred megatraveller. Cascade skills, special duty skills, and brownie points let you tune your character a bit more.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSecond, I've wondered what to do about actual character generation.  Do the basic books provide enough of a skill base?  I'm generally of the opinion that the advanced chargen from Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts, and Merchant Prince overdoes the job, producing cluttered characters without really adding significant nuance.  Something in between, leaning toward basic chargen but providing more assurance of career competency, would be nice.  There are lots of different house rules on the matter out there on the Internet, but I don't believe I've come across one that rally does the trick for me.  What would be good?  A fifth skill table? (which, if I recall correctly, was something akin to the solution used in the stillborn T4)  A bonus skill roll for each Term?

!i!

Chargen as you say in your first para, otherwise though I think the basic books generally do provide enough, I think giving a default equal to terms is overpowered though, as a seven termer would get a skill of seven which is very high.

Perhaps a free level 0 for each term of service?

Edit:  I've also seen sometimes a number of level 0s granted equal to Edu over three, but I prefer the terms of service idea myself.

I may try to knock some tables up this weekend, though I don't want to crowd your thunder Iain.