Quote from: Trond;1039984Apart from some more time-consuming-but-still-cool character generation systems (like Artesia), I often like my quick house-ruled BRP system best.

Tell the players about the setting. Let the players roll their stats (or give them the option to buy stats, but the average will be somewhat lower), and ask them to come up with a character concept. Then give them a specific number of points to allocate to skills (number of points, and highest possible score depending on power level in the setting). Give them some items that suit their background, make sure the points are added up correctly, and you're done.

Sort of a combination of random and modeling?

Quote from: CarlD.;1040040Sort of a combination of random and modeling?

I sometimes give the players the option of point buy vs random stat rolls, yes. E.g. for a relatively high power game I have used 2D6+6 (avg. 13),  and the point buy equivalent could be an average of 12 per stat. That gives an incentive to try the random rolls if they want. And the skills are allocated using point-buy.

Quote from: Hastur-The-Unnameable;1037642Firstly, saying PCs try to make the best character the rules allow them "to get away with" implies they are creating their character in bad faith.

What it really implies, if 'what they can get away with' is somehow 'bad faith', is that the rules you're using is shitty design.

Roll the dice, marvel at the results, roleplay the hell out of them.

The only time I want to put the dice in any order is when the player group needs X class for the PC team. AKA, "would you play the cleric?" or "nobody made a fighter again."

Quote from: Trond;1040150I sometimes give the players the option of point buy vs random stat rolls, yes. E.g. for a relatively high power game I have used 2D6+6 (avg. 13),  and the point buy equivalent could be an average of 12 per stat. That gives an incentive to try the random rolls if they want. And the skills are allocated using point-buy.

Interesting compromise! I'm not really familiar with the system in question so I can't make a detailed response but it sounds like it's been working for you. How does character generation work in the base system?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1040331What it really implies, if 'what they can get away with' is somehow 'bad faith', is that the rules you're using is shitty design.

I'm talking about the concept of "Bad Faith" in the sense of adopting false values and disowning one's innate freedom, thus acting inauthentically.

The idea that a player making a character to "get away with" something means they are acting under values that are contrary to the purpose of an RPG. They feel a need to focus on making a powerful character instead of a character that they actually want to play, with meaningful character choices. The point of the game is not to "win" by being better than everyone, and if a player doesn't understand that concept then they are building their character in bad faith.

If the GM and the players are working together to make a mutually enjoyable experience, then they shouldn't need to "get away" with anything because there is nothing to subvert. Their choices are all being made for their personal enjoyment of a character option, an the Gm should use those options to make the story of their campaign more detailed.

Now, I know there are games that make it easier for players to act in bad faith, but that isn't really a failure of the system itself. Yes, playing certain games with the wrong players can lead to munchkinry (much like the wrong GM can lead to a game of authoritarian Mother May I), but with the right players, who build characters in good faith, these same games allow for a great deal of potential in many ways.

Now, I am lucky enough to have developed a group able to place their desired story over any need to "win" but I know not everyone is so lucky. Assuming you need to treat all players as these players, however, is just acting in bad faith.

Crap. I left Modeling off the poll. In my defense I'e seen it officially mentioned in two games, both supers games as it happens.

The Bidding-War/Auction method in Lords of Olympus/Amber is another awesome method of character creation; as I remembered this weekend when we did one.

It's got no dice, but it absolutely ends up with almost every player ending up with a Character different from what they would have originally envisioned, and adapting their original concept in really awesome ways.

My preferred method has varied a lot over the years.

For attributes, I highly dislike rolling with wide variance (you'll never catch me using 3d6 for ability scores if I can help it), but systems that use a narrower spread I'm fine with. Point buy has been gradually falling out of favor for me, since I've noticed that it tends to result in cookie-cutter characters, and seems to lead players into the mindset that they're "not playing right" if they don't put at least X into Y stat. Stat arrays have overtaken point buy for me by a wide margin.

Beyond base attributes, I'm game for pretty much anything. I'm a large fan of Burning Wheel's lifepath system, where characters with fewer lifepaths are less powerful out of the gate, but are quicker to pick up new skills in play. I've convinced my players to try semi-random character generation in other games by allowing them to roll twice and choose their preferred option, which went over well. I've actually taken to the idea of having them roll for race on a d20, with different options weighted by their prevalence in the world.

Quote from: Broken Twin;1040973My preferred method has varied a lot over the years.

For attributes, I highly dislike rolling with wide variance (you'll never catch me using 3d6 for ability scores if I can help it), but systems that use a narrower spread I'm fine with. Point buy has been gradually falling out of favor for me, since I've noticed that it tends to result in cookie-cutter characters, and seems to lead players into the mindset that they're "not playing right" if they don't put at least X into Y stat. Stat arrays have overtaken point buy for me by a wide margin.

Beyond base attributes, I'm game for pretty much anything. I'm a large fan of Burning Wheel's lifepath system, where characters with fewer lifepaths are less powerful out of the gate, but are quicker to pick up new skills in play. I've convinced my players to try semi-random character generation in other games by allowing them to roll twice and choose their preferred option, which went over well. I've actually taken to the idea of having them roll for race on a d20, with different options weighted by their prevalence in the world.

If I didn't say so yet, welcome to theRPGsite!

Quote from: RPGPundit;1041703If I didn't say so yet, welcome to theRPGsite!

Thanks! Been lurking for a while now, finally decided I wanted to start joining the conversations.

Quote from: Broken Twin;1040973My preferred method has varied a lot over the years.

For attributes, I highly dislike rolling with wide variance (you'll never catch me using 3d6 for ability scores if I can help it), but systems that use a narrower spread I'm fine with. Point buy has been gradually falling out of favor for me, since I've noticed that it tends to result in cookie-cutter characters, and seems to lead players into the mindset that they're "not playing right" if they don't put at least X into Y stat. Stat arrays have overtaken point buy for me by a wide margin.

Beyond base attributes, I'm game for pretty much anything. I'm a large fan of Burning Wheel's lifepath system, where characters with fewer lifepaths are less powerful out of the gate, but are quicker to pick up new skills in play. I've convinced my players to try semi-random character generation in other games by allowing them to roll twice and choose their preferred option, which went over well. I've actually taken to the idea of having them roll for race on a d20, with different options weighted by their prevalence in the world.

You may like to look at this then. Oh and welcome to the forum from another newbie.

http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2014/02/career-paths-for-3d6-fantasy.html

I think my favorite is picking a few templates assigning a few points, and picking from a few simple options.

Something like the Numenera system. Pick a descriptor, focus, and type, distribute 6 bonus ability pool points, then pick a couple of features from your type. It's fast, takes about 5 minutes, but still has a lot of player choice in what you make.