Quote from: rgalex on November 14, 2022, 07:48:14 AM
I see that this, as well as the GI Joe and Power Rangers games, have a spot on the character sheet for pronouns.  Is that the extent of it or are there any other signs of wokeness in the book?  I'm mostly interested in the GI Joe game. If that's as far as that shit goes it's fine, but that is a big warning sign these days.

Pronouns on the PC Sheet? Nope, fuck that product then. This isn't twitter, these are robots.  Stop that nonsense.

Can someone link the fan project instead as this product seems to be doing 5E without calling it 5E.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 12:33:42 AM
Worse, if you roll maximum on any of those skill dice, except the D2, your roll is a critical. That gives a character with two pips in any skill, or any character rolling a specialized skill with two or more pips, a 25% chance to crit. 

Oh boy, that's Savage Worlds probability weirdness rearing its head. With a low skill ranking in SWADE (d4 or d6), you have less of a chance to succeed conventionally, but your chance to explode the dice is a LOT greater.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 12:26:03 AM
If  Transformers "evolved" this implies some kind of self replication analagous to organic beings. If they were created by Robot God, then he could make them male and female as he sees fit.

In either (and more) cases, Transformers definitley present as gendered.

Interesting. I wasn't into Transformers, but my son had a Beast Wars phase growing up. Evidently female Autobots were first introduced in the second season cartoon episode "The Search for Alpha Trion", to which Shockwave commented: "Female Autobots? I thought they were extinct."

There were a bunch of new transformers created in the shows by different ways. The Dinobots were directly built by Wheeljack and Ratchet, but in Beast Wars there's a spark that starts with a "protoform", and apparently in the comics new transformers are created by budding. They never seem to be created from mothers and fathers, though.

So it would seem like transformers definitely present as gendered, but they don't have sex in a physical sense even as analogy to biological life.

Quote from: jhkim on November 15, 2022, 12:34:28 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 12:26:03 AM
If  Transformers "evolved" this implies some kind of self replication analagous to organic beings. If they were created by Robot God, then he could make them male and female as he sees fit.

In either (and more) cases, Transformers definitley present as gendered.

Interesting. I wasn't into Transformers, but my son had a Beast Wars phase growing up. Evidently female Autobots were first introduced in the second season cartoon episode "The Search for Alpha Trion", to which Shockwave commented: "Female Autobots? I thought they were extinct."

There were a bunch of new transformers created in the shows by different ways. The Dinobots were directly built by Wheeljack and Ratchet, but in Beast Wars there's a spark that starts with a "protoform", and apparently in the comics new transformers are created by budding. They never seem to be created from mothers and fathers, though.

So it would seem like transformers definitely present as gendered, but they don't have sex in a physical sense even as analogy to biological life.

Depends on the continuity. More importantly, it depends on whose writing the continuity at the moment.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Reproduction

In any case, the Transformers are definitley gendered. Their body and facial dimorphism matches biological, specifically human dimorphism far too much. Kind of like Star Trek's "bumpy forehead" aliens, Transformers look and act like human beings more than robots.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 12:49:41 PM
In any case, the Transformers are definitley gendered. Their body and facial dimorphism matches biological, specifically human dimorphism far too much. Kind of like Star Trek's "bumpy forehead" aliens, Transformers look and act like human beings more than robots.

It depends on the writer (unsurprisingly).

I'll give IDW credit for coming up with a rather interesting explanation as to why some Transformers have normal articulated hands and faces, while others do not: it's the result of a punishment called 'empurata' (a nod to the old Roman punishment of ampurata), where they forcibly modify a Cybertronian.

(Also, there is a running gag of at least one Autobot with a mask-face complaining about how he can't make a 'pfft' sound.)

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 15, 2022, 01:28:57 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 12:49:41 PM
In any case, the Transformers are definitley gendered. Their body and facial dimorphism matches biological, specifically human dimorphism far too much. Kind of like Star Trek's "bumpy forehead" aliens, Transformers look and act like human beings more than robots.

It depends on the writer (unsurprisingly).

I'm talking about their physicality, which is not affected by writers due to them being based on toys. With only a little interpretation in the beginning since the toys were from various toy lines imported from Japan.

QuoteI'll give IDW credit for coming up with a rather interesting explanation as to why some Transformers have normal articulated hands and faces, while others do not: it's the result of a punishment called 'empurata' (a nod to the old Roman punishment of ampurata), where they forcibly modify a Cybertronian.

I'd have to read the story, but that would mean that almost all Transformers suffered this punishment, including their important leaders. A small amount of Transformers have more "robotic" features, like a claw for a hand, or a head without a human-like face.

Quote(Also, there is a running gag of at least one Autobot with a mask-face complaining about how he can't make a 'pfft' sound.)

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 12:49:41 PM

Quote from: jhkim on November 15, 2022, 12:34:28 PM
There were a bunch of new transformers created in the shows by different ways. The Dinobots were directly built by Wheeljack and Ratchet, but in Beast Wars there's a spark that starts with a "protoform", and apparently in the comics new transformers are created by budding. They never seem to be created from mothers and fathers, though.

So it would seem like transformers definitely present as gendered, but they don't have sex in a physical sense even as analogy to biological life.

Depends on the continuity. More importantly, it depends on whose writing the continuity at the moment.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Reproduction

Are we disagreeing? The wiki entry you link says "Although the vast majority of Transformers universes feature both male and female Transformers with an understanding of love, the vast majority of Transformers do not reproduce sexually, and indeed regard this kind of procreation as something entirely alien to their mechanical worldview." That's what I was trying to say.

The quoted comic image is from Scorponok's Frankensteinian attempt to create a organic-mechanical hybrid being, and isn't presented as how new Transformers are normally created. There are a lot of different ways that new transformers are created in different continuities, but I can't see even one example where a new transformer is created by having a female transformer mother and a male transformer father. There are verbal references to parents, but those could easily be references to creators or nurturers. i.e. Wheeljack and Ratchet are the parents of the Dinobots.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 12:49:41 PM
In any case, the Transformers are definitley gendered. Their body and facial dimorphism matches biological, specifically human dimorphism far too much. Kind of like Star Trek's "bumpy forehead" aliens, Transformers look and act like human beings more than robots.

Agreed.

Quote from: jhkim on November 15, 2022, 01:53:49 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 12:49:41 PM

Quote from: jhkim on November 15, 2022, 12:34:28 PM
There were a bunch of new transformers created in the shows by different ways. The Dinobots were directly built by Wheeljack and Ratchet, but in Beast Wars there's a spark that starts with a "protoform", and apparently in the comics new transformers are created by budding. They never seem to be created from mothers and fathers, though.

So it would seem like transformers definitely present as gendered, but they don't have sex in a physical sense even as analogy to biological life.

Depends on the continuity. More importantly, it depends on whose writing the continuity at the moment.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Reproduction

Are we disagreeing? The wiki entry you link says "Although the vast majority of Transformers universes feature both male and female Transformers with an understanding of love, the vast majority of Transformers do not reproduce sexually, and indeed regard this kind of procreation as something entirely alien to their mechanical worldview." That's what I was trying to say.

The quoted comic image is from Scorponok's Frankensteinian attempt to create a organic-mechanical hybrid being, and isn't presented as how new Transformers are normally created. There are a lot of different ways that new transformers are created in different continuities, but I can't see even one example where a new transformer is created by having a female transformer mother and a male transformer father. There are verbal references to parents, but those could easily be references to creators or nurturers. i.e. Wheeljack and Ratchet are the parents of the Dinobots. 

I'm just pointing out that the comics tend to go in whacky directions. I would not be shocked if some writer made up "robosex" and "robopregnancy". They've done plenty of analagous types of organic reproduction for Transformers so far.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 02:03:04 PM

Quote from: jhkim on November 15, 2022, 01:53:49 PM
Are we disagreeing? The wiki entry you link says "Although the vast majority of Transformers universes feature both male and female Transformers with an understanding of love, the vast majority of Transformers do not reproduce sexually, and indeed regard this kind of procreation as something entirely alien to their mechanical worldview." That's what I was trying to say.

I'm just pointing out that the comics tend to go in whacky directions. I would not be shocked if some writer made up "robosex" and "robopregnancy". They've done plenty of analagous types of organic reproduction for Transformers so far.

Fair enough. I would not be shocked either, but the wiki doesn't make mention of it - and it seems pretty thorough. There have been a bunch of times that new transformers were created in the original series and subsequent series. I'm not even a fan and I remember the Dinobots being made and the Beast Wars episode where a protoform was released.

Regarding the character sheet, this is a case where "sex" doesn't make much sense as a character label, since the characters don't seem to have biological sex, though they do have a gender identity.

Well, the fanfics certainly ran with the idea of transformers having naughty bits.

Quote from: jhkim on November 15, 2022, 02:51:28 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 02:03:04 PM

Quote from: jhkim on November 15, 2022, 01:53:49 PM
Are we disagreeing? The wiki entry you link says "Although the vast majority of Transformers universes feature both male and female Transformers with an understanding of love, the vast majority of Transformers do not reproduce sexually, and indeed regard this kind of procreation as something entirely alien to their mechanical worldview." That's what I was trying to say.

I'm just pointing out that the comics tend to go in whacky directions. I would not be shocked if some writer made up "robosex" and "robopregnancy". They've done plenty of analagous types of organic reproduction for Transformers so far.

Fair enough. I would not be shocked either, but the wiki doesn't make mention of it - and it seems pretty thorough. There have been a bunch of times that new transformers were created in the original series and subsequent series. I'm not even a fan and I remember the Dinobots being made and the Beast Wars episode where a protoform was released.

Regarding the character sheet, this is a case where "sex" doesn't make much sense as a character label, since the characters don't seem to have biological sex, though they do have a gender identity.

Yep. In another time I wouldn't have raised an eyebrow at pronouns, but with the culture war  I do.

Quote from: jhkim on November 15, 2022, 12:34:28 PM
They never seem to be created from mothers and fathers, though.

I'm really gonna recommend you stop trying to make "this is how it be" kinds of posts about this, because like I said there are a lot of timelines, and I really doubt you want me or anyone else motivated by completionism to shit the thread up with any of the few spots where there are families, or some kind of pregnancy equivalent.  I want to emphasize that there are MANY transformer timelines at this point, and there is no attempt to line them up.  Each timeline gives different details that often conflict, and the things they say in other timelines aren't retcons, they are separate universes entirely.  Even statements you pull off a wiki may only be relevant to one, or many, timelines, allowing someone to go and pull up some crap you've never heard of.  Is any of that particularly helpful?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on November 15, 2022, 02:59:02 PM
Well, the fanfics certainly ran with the idea of transformers having naughty bits.

I mean, it IS the internet...

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 15, 2022, 03:26:27 PM
Yep. In another time I wouldn't have raised an eyebrow at pronouns, but with the culture war  I do.

Having a section for "gender" would probably be the most accurate thing, as transformers are generally depicted as having an assumed sex role of some sort (in some cases you could claim they are asexual for awhile, and then someone dumps a femme into the story and everything just proceeds like that's just normal now), but not usually depicted as having an actual physical sex (again, there are exceptions).

But having "pronouns" isn't even CORRECT.  The entire idea of including a "pronoun" section is to create a situation where you, the shitlord chud, have to either bitch about it, thus setting yourself apart, capitulate, thus granting their mob religion power over you, or leave it blank, thus opening yourself to several crybully techniques ("decent people do it", "it's inclusive", "not doing it normalizes the evil bad past", etc.).  It also is pretty centered about the English speaking world, and it extends that crap to all of the entire universe, including million year old societies of sentient robotst that turn into cool toys.  It's completely inappropriate and insulting, and is done entirely for culture war reasons- because even if the idea was that you could have boy and girl robots, as well as gay and straight robots, as well as transtransformers, you'd STILL not have "pronouns" as an entry.

I've been playing this game online for several sessions now and we are having a blast.  I even play as a Dinobot and it was fairly easy to do despite the game not yet having full rules out to do that, only some basic guidelines. 

Here is a great YouTube review for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taWAUl9xL6o&ab_channel=DaveThaumavoreRPGReviews

Quote from: Batjon on November 15, 2022, 07:23:49 PM
I've been playing this game online for several sessions now and we are having a blast.  I even play as a Dinobot and it was fairly easy to do despite the game not yet having full rules out to do that, only some basic guidelines. 

Hrm that's pretty good, I didn't give much thought as to how dinobots could work there either.  Good to hear either way.

Quote from: Batjon on November 15, 2022, 07:23:49 PM
I've been playing this game online for several sessions now and we are having a blast.  I even play as a Dinobot and it was fairly easy to do despite the game not yet having full rules out to do that, only some basic guidelines. 

Here is a great YouTube review for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taWAUl9xL6o&ab_channel=DaveThaumavoreRPGReviews

Well damn. It's good to see some positivity in the thread. I have a few questions if you don't mind.

1. How is your group handling xp/gaining levels?
2. How is the core mechanic? I'm especially interested in the crit system, as mentioned earlier.
3. How is combat "balance"? The damage system seems very simple to me.
4. Overall, does it feel Transformer-ey?