As best as I can tell, by doing a word find there is not mention of D&D, MtG, Pokemon, WOTC, or any other product WOTC puts out. Not even mention of the digital initiative stuff, which was the only thing of WOTC's even touched upon in recent calls. This may be a first in the couple years I have been following these things.
Read from that what you will...
http://seekingalpha.com/article/167333-hasbro-q3-2009-earnings-call-transcript
Quote from: Joethelawyer;339558Read from that what you will...
Wasn't WotC's mention in the past almost literally a footnote?
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;339577Wasn't WotC's mention in the past almost literally a footnote?
Seanchai
basically. they rarely get any mentions at all. this is the first time nothing they did got a mention.
Quote from: Joethelawyer;339558As best as I can tell, by doing a word find there is not mention of D&D, MtG, Pokemon, WOTC, or any other product WOTC puts out. Not even mention of the digital initiative stuff, which was the only thing of WOTC's even touched upon in recent calls. This may be a first in the couple years I have been following these things.
Let the tea-leaf-reading and Ouija-board-consulting across the Nerdscape commence!
How can anyone tell how important wizards are to Hasbro?
Quote from: Joethelawyer;339588basically. they rarely get any mentions at all. this is the first time nothing they did got a mention.
How common are there "no mentions" for other Hasbro divisions?
Quote from: ggroy;339607How common are there "no mentions" for other Hasbro divisions?
beats me.
Its a good question because depending on the answer it puts things into very different contexts.
RPGPundit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbro
Quite a few hasbro properties out there. I don't have time to compare to the quarterly, unfortunately (at least not at work).
Quote from: Joethelawyer;339558As best as I can tell, by doing a word find there is not mention of D&D, MtG, Pokemon, WOTC, or any other product WOTC puts out. Not even mention of the digital initiative stuff, which was the only thing of WOTC's even touched upon in recent calls. This may be a first in the couple years I have been following these things.
Read from that what you will...
http://seekingalpha.com/article/167333-hasbro-q3-2009-earnings-call-transcript
Joe, you have a shit memory then.
Here is your last post on this topic, from this board, from the Q2:
Quote from: Joethelawyer;315163WOTC is not mentioned once. In the few years I've been reading these things, I believe this is the first time WOTC is not mentioned in any way at all--not even Pokemon or MtG got a mention, no less the Digital Initiative they touted so heavily in the latest few calls.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/149931-hasbro-q2-2009-earnings-call-transcript
So OMG WTF First time EVAR they don't mentioned WOTC since....last report?
Here is your comment from Q4 2008, where you again emphasize a lack of WOTC mention other than one small mention:
Quote from: joethelawyer;4663183it appears that there is no meaningful mention of anything wotc or d&d anywhere in there, other than to mention the investment in the digital initiative.
transcript is here
http://seekingalpha.com/article/119418-hasbro-inc-q4-2008-earnings-call-transcript?source=yahoo
And your Q3 2008 comment
Quote from: joethelawyer;4517232Well, i actually listened to thing thing. boring as hell.
As far as i can tell, and whoever else listened correct me if i am wrong, they mentioned WOTC once in the call. they said the duelmasters card game is doing well in japan.
they mentioned the digital initiative---this is pretty close to a quote:
"this quarter we continued to invest in digital strategy including wotc initiative and building relationship with electronic arts."
and a few sentences later, again, pretty close to a quote:
"some of the digital initiatives will continue throughout the year."
it seemed the electronic arts relationship is based around their other games though, they mentioned the website Pogo Games | Play Card Games, Board Games, and other Free Online Games (http://www.pogo.com) as an example of what the relationship producing.
And your comments from Q2 2008:
Quote from: joethelawyer;4402285to respond to my own post, i thought it was interesting that they only mentioned wotc in passing. this is 2 months after 4e released. this was a huge meeting with all the big wall street firms. this is where you toot your own horn loudly. if 4e really did well they would have been talking about it here.
So as anyone can see, what you do every fucking time is emphasize how little they say about WOTC, and then you try and make that seem significant. EVERY FUCKING TIME.
After this long, you'd think you'd finally come to the other possible conclusion - that WOTC simply isn't an important aspect of Hasbro in general, and it is par for the course for Hasbro to ignore WOTC in their quarterly reports, and there is nothing one can read into that because that's essentially what they've always done.
But no, instead I feel pretty confident in saying that the next quarterly report from Hasbro will mostly or entirely ignore WOTC, and you will again post about how you think that is significant.
Hasbro is actually run by Osama Bin Laden.
:pundit:
Quote from: Mistwell;339749Joe, you have a shit memory then.
But no, instead I feel pretty confident in saying that the next quarterly report from Hasbro will mostly or entirely ignore WOTC, and you will again post about how you think that is significant.
So I was right then, except this is the second time in a row they never mentioned WOTC or any of their products or the digital initiative at all?
Quote from: ggroy;339760Hasbro is actually run by Osama Bin Laden.
Making plans to fly Whizbros into a brick wall?
Quote from: Mistwell;339749But no, instead I feel pretty confident in saying that the next quarterly report from Hasbro will mostly or entirely ignore WOTC, and you will again post about how you think that is significant.
This is actually not true. My friend works as an investment banker and he has been on a Hasbro conference call. He told me that WOTC was discussed and in fact Hasbro is sick and tired of the money that WOTC is loosing from them.
This is just me, but I wouldnt be surprised if Hasbro sells whatever properties they can for as much as they can and then shuts down WOTC.
Actually, if you look at the way WOTC is changing things (Such as dumping the OGL, the digital initiative, etc) it looks like they are working on ways to make as much money as possible. I wouldnt doubt it is pressure coming from Hasbro.
Quote from: The Game Guy;339808This is actually not true. My friend works as an investment banker and he has been on a Hasbro conference call. He told me that WOTC was discussed and in fact Hasbro is sick and tired of the money that WOTC is loosing from them.
How long ago were these particular conference calls, that your investment banking friend was on?
Or have these more recent conference call transcripts Joe has been posting, been heavily edited?
Quote from: ggroy;339810How long ago were these particular conference calls, that your investment banking friend was on?
Or have these more recent conference call transcripts Joe has been posting, been heavily edited?
I don't edit anything, I just post a link, which appears to be a verbatim complete transcript. In any case, you can go to the Hasbro web page and listen to them all via recording if you like. Compare the two. I actually listened to one once, it was boring as shit.
Quote from: Joethelawyer;339817I don't edit anything, I just post a link, which appears to be a verbatim complete transcript. In any case, you can go to the Hasbro web page and listen to them all via recording if you like. Compare the two. I actually listened to one once, it was boring as shit.
I didn't think Joe was editing the transcript. I was thinking of something more along the lines of the recording being edited by Hasbro, to take out stuff they didn't want anybody hearing. I suppose there's no easy way to check whether any editing was done, if one was not on the original conference call or have an independent recording of it.
Quote from: ggroy;339818I didn't think Joe was editing the transcript. I was thinking of something more along the lines of the recording being edited by Hasbro, to take out stuff they didn't want anybody hearing. I suppose there's no easy way to check whether any editing was done, if one was not on the original conference call or have an independent recording of it.
I still have access to databases that carry a complete transcript, used by investors, so it has to be complete. It takes a couple days to make it there, so this weekend someone remind me to do a search for it, and i'll do the same word search for key words that i did on the one linked to above.
Quote from: The Game Guy;339808This is actually not true. My friend works as an investment banker and he has been on a Hasbro conference call. He told me that WOTC was discussed and in fact Hasbro is sick and tired of the money that WOTC is loosing from them.
Your friend is lying to you. WOTC was not mentioned. And they definitely would never say they are sick and tired of WOTC losing money, and never have said anything like that.
Quote from: ggroy;339818I didn't think Joe was editing the transcript. I was thinking of something more along the lines of the recording being edited by Hasbro, to take out stuff they didn't want anybody hearing. I suppose there's no easy way to check whether any editing was done, if one was not on the original conference call or have an independent recording of it.
There is no editing. It's a public company, reporting a public quarter, with a public conference call, under federal statutory rules. And I am listening to most of their public calls. As Joe says, it's boring as watching grass grow, and WOTC is not mentioned.
Even when WOTC is mentioned in past calls, it's at best a side note.
The Game Guy's friend is making shit up, or he is making shit up. It's as simple as that.
Quote from: Mistwell;339824Your friend is lying to you. I'm on their conference calls. They are not hard to get on. Joe reports on them as well. WOTC was not mentioned. And they definitely would never say they are sick and tired of WOTC losing money, and never have said anything like that.
Maybe this was some investment banker who had some inside information, from some "off the cuff" conversations with lower level Hasbro executives over dinner or coffee?
Quote from: Mistwell;339825The Game Guy's friend is making shit up, or he is making shit up. It's as simple as that.
LOL...
Quote from: ggroy;339810How long ago were these particular conference calls, that your investment banking friend was on?
They were recent and they may not be the same calls Joe was on. I wasn't there but also I know my friend and I don't believe he was lying to me.
I am taking his word at face value. And he likes D&D and doesn't have anything against WOTC so I don't think there is anything he would gain about lying about it.
In official corporate press releases and announcements, rarely ever hear them using words or expressions like: "sick and tired", sucks, etc ...
The language used is typically formal and neutral.
Quote from: Mistwell;339824Your friend is lying to you. WOTC was not mentioned. And they definitely would never say they are sick and tired of WOTC losing money, and never have said anything like that.
First he isn't lying to me. Why would he? What would he have to gain from it? He likes D&D (we are in a D&D game together) and likes WOTC so I don't see what there is gain from it.
Two, it could have been a different call then the one you were on. I have no doubt that WOTC is a money loser for Hasbro.
Quote from: Mistwell;339825The Game Guy's friend is making shit up, or he is making shit up. It's as simple as that.
(Edit): You aren't worth it.
Quote from: The Game Guy;339829They were recent and they may not be the same calls Joe was on. I wasn't there but also I know my friend and I don't believe he was lying to me.
I am taking his word at face value. And he likes D&D and doesn't have anything against WOTC so I don't think there is anything he would gain about lying about it.
Is it possible your friend is the recipient of insider information?
Quote from: ggroy;339833Is it possible your friend is the recipient of insider information?
Could be. I don't know as I said, I wasn't there. We are both in two game groups and he has told people in both groups about it.
If WOTC is a money loser (and I think most game companies are these days as the industry has gone to shit) I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to get rid of WOTC. Hasbro didnt get as huge as it is by keeping money losers.
Again, this is information passed to me from someone else who I trust, but again it's third hand, so who knows. I do trust the guy and I don't see what he could gain from lying. Could he be lying? While I doubt it I can't rule it out either.
Quote from: The Game Guy;339829They were recent and they may not be the same calls Joe was on.
Doesn't regulation FD forbid something like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_Fair_Disclosure
Or was your friend's investment bank a client of Hasbro where they were able to get this type of inside information, that the analysts on the brokerage side of the bank were shielded away from (via a Chinese Wall)?
Quote from: The Game Guy;339835Could be. I don't know as I said, I wasn't there. We are both in two game groups and he has told people in both groups about it.
Passing on tradeable insider information is technically illegal. Hopefully none of you guys used that information for buying or selling Hasbro stock.
Quote from: ggroy;339836Doesn't regulation FD forbid something like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_Fair_Disclosure
Or was your friend's investment bank a client of Hasbro where they were able to get this type of inside information, that the analysts on the brokerage side of the bank were shielded away from (via a Chinese Wall)?
I misspoke, I should have said that the way he talked about them they seemed as if they were recent, but thinking back on it I can't be sure when the calls happened. It's not like he gave me a time or date.
All he said is he was on a call with them and someone said something about Hasbro being sick of WOTC losing them money. It was a comment in passing and I can't honestly pin a time and date.
Maybe Mistwell's information is more recent then mine and maybe things have changed. But then WOTC has been ramping up on money money lines and products so maybe they are now doing well and Hasbro isn't as worried about them.
Quote from: The Game Guy;339840I misspoke, I should have said that the way he talked about them they seemed as if they were recent, but thinking back on it I can't be sure when the calls happened. It's not like he gave me a time or date.
All he said is he was on a call with them and someone said something about Hasbro being sick of WOTC losing them money. It was a comment in passing and I can't honestly pin a time and date.
Maybe Mistwell's information is more recent then mine and maybe things have changed. But then WOTC has been ramping up on money money lines and products so maybe they are now doing well and Hasbro isn't as worried about them.
Dude, just pick up the phone and give him a call and get the details.
Hopefully your investment banking friend also isn't a lawyer by training with a law license. Revealing such privileged insider information can be grounds for disbarment.
Quote from: ggroy;339838Passing on tradeable insider information is technically illegal. Hopefully none of you guys used that information for buying or selling Hasbro stock.
No, he didnt buy stock. He is smarter then that and wouldnt do something so dumb and risky.
His job is risky enough just doing what he does.
Quote from: The Game Guy;339844No, he didnt buy stock. He is smarter then that and wouldnt do something so dumb and risky.
His job is risky enough just doing what he does.
Just give him a call, man, and post here what he says.
Quote from: ggroy;339836Doesn't regulation FD forbid something like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_Fair_Disclosure
Or was your friend's investment bank a client of Hasbro where they were able to get this type of inside information, that the analysts on the brokerage side of the bank were shielded away from (via a Chinese Wall)?
The Gamer Guy is either himself now participating in the passing on of insider information, or he is passing on a false rumor (though he may not know it is a false rumor).
One of those will get you in serious trouble, and the other will simply get you shit from some guys on a message board.
Actually technically passing on a false rumor about the financial struggles of a public company can itself get you in trouble, but I think in this context it's not very meaningful.
On the other hand, his friend is in trouble either way. If he is a licensed investment banker, then he either:
1) disclosed insider information, which will get him in serious trouble, or
2) made up a false rumor about the finances of a public company and passed it on, which will also get him in serious trouble as an investment banker.
So, The Gamer Guy, here is your opportunity to back peddle, before this thread gets indexed by Google and your information starts leaking out for searches on Hasbro (HAS) stock and their recent quarterly report.
With everything mentioned, it sounds like the information your friend has may be on the investment banking side. It doesn't sound like information that a stock analyst on the brokerage side of the bank would normally have.
Quote from: ggroy;339849With everything mentioned, it sounds like the information your friend has may be on the investment banking side. It doesn't sound like information that a stock analyst on the brokerage side of the bank would normally have.
It's not information an investment banker should have either. And certainly not something he would/should be telling his friend.
Well, this exchange certainly explains this tidbit from the WEG forums:
Quote....I decided to cancel D6 Radio, due to ratings and due to Game Guy's name tainting it. I guess I didnt realize how many people truely disliked GG, and when I tried to promote the new show with new host I got nothing.... no response anywhere. I looked at the ratings, and the show never went over 25 listeners and canceled it.
Also, I hate to admit it, but Mistwell's first, and rather detailed post was pretty much the first though that came to my mind as well, namely "Didn't we do this thread already?" I actually thought it was a necro when it showed up in unread posts.
Quote from: J Arcane;339852Well, this exchange certainly explains this tidbit from the WEG forums:
Also, I hate to admit it, but Mistwell's first, and rather detailed post was pretty much the first though that came to my mind as well, namely "Didn't we do this thread already?" I actually thought it was a necro when it showed up in unread posts.
Yeah, I do have a shiot memory, as Mistwell said. If I could have said in the first post "Look, 2 times in a row and no mention!" I would have. I just didn't rememeber from last time it.
I blame it on Mad Cow Disease.
Quote from: Mistwell;339851It's not information an investment banker should have either. And certainly not something he would/should be telling his friend.
After consideration of what has been said and since I wasn't there and can't verify the information, I have removed the posts. I don't believe anything was told to me that was illegal, but since people do bring up good points, it's best to go with what Mistwell has posted as being total fact (coming from WOTC'S Site) and being the best information on the current state of WOTC.
Quote from: J Arcane;339852Well, this exchange certainly explains this tidbit from the WEG forums:
Actually, I quit the show prior to his canceling the show (he got a new host and the show never got off the ground again).
It was a bad idea from the start and even Eric Gibson (owner of WEG) said there wasn't enough to talk about to have a show that ran weekly (or even sub weekly).
He just has sour grapes because the show was a failure I decided to leave. He had someone else who was going to take over for me, he just couldnt get it going.
I don't care as I am no longer WEG's #1 cheerleader anymore. I sold the site to someone else and do not go to the website any longer. There are a few reasons why I sold the site, burn out being ones but there are bigger issues as well.
These issues I wont mention because I am still friends with Eric Gibson and I don't want to say something that would ruin said friendship.
I find it heart warming that people remember (to remind others of) the values of intellectual decency, honesty and responsibility for their own posting when the subject is as touchy as circulating disclosed information. God forbid that we'd stick to these values when there are no legal threats involved. (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=337686&postcount=43)
The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out. - Thomas Babington Macaulay
It seems fairly clear that the lack of mention of WotC means this portion of Hasbro is either not material to the investment community or Hasbro doesn't believe it is or will be, otherwise it would be covered. Rather than a call which can only cover so much, look at the Q or a K to get a better idea of were WotC falls in the grand scheme of things at Hasbro.
Quote from: Windjammer;339904I find it heart warming that people remember (to remind others of) the values of intellectual decency, honesty and responsibility for their own posting when the subject is as touchy as circulating disclosed information. God forbid that we'd stick to these values when there are no legal threats involved. (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=337686&postcount=43)
Being an internet martyr must be tough.
WTF?
I just found it mildly ironic that people who've got no problem deliberately lying about their sources suddenly take exception to that practice when others follow suit.
Quote from: Windjammer;340244WTF?
I just found it mildly ironic that people who've got no problem deliberately lying about their sources suddenly take exception to that practice when others follow suit.
Dude, you're still not getting the fact that nobody in this thread gives a rat's ass about that one.
Bumped into Joe Stalin and Karl Marx last night. Plied them with Scotch and they spilt the beans. They reckon WoTC lie low at reports time - terrified any sign of success and they'll be told to make a My Littlest Pet Shop RPG.
Quote from: Windjammer;340244WTF?
I just found it mildly ironic that people who've got no problem deliberately lying about their sources suddenly take exception to that practice when others follow suit.
I've never once lied about a source, and you are a whining little shit. How is that for an answer?
Quote from: The Game Guy;339861I don't care as I am no longer WEG's #1 cheerleader anymore. I sold the site to someone else and do not go to the website any longer. There are a few reasons why I sold the site, burn out being ones but there are bigger issues as well.
Called it.
Seanchai