100,000 level 10 Godbound. The end.

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on August 14, 2022, 11:02:20 AM(technically the orcs, goblins, ogres, hobgoblins and bugbears that revolted against Sintergoblin, a festive holiday in the city of Viroviacum and environs, where goblins are caught by man-catchers and are forced to throw candy towards the children of the city, only to be clubbed to death once they arrive on the market square)

That's a really fun bit of worldbuilding!

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on August 14, 2022, 07:40:10 AM
"The Radiant Citadel's location within the Deep Ethereal makes it difficult to assault. It keeps no standing army, but its council for defense has contingency plans it frequently refines based on intelligence from the Court of Whispers.

The city's primary protection is a powerful ward that can be activated by the Speakers for the Ancestors. When all fifteen are assembled in the council room at the center of the Preserve, by unanimous consent they can erect a diamond sphere that envelops the entire city. The diamond sphere resembles the Auroral Diamond in texture and color and deflects all attacks. Nothing can pass or teleport through it.

If the diamond sphere cannot be erected for any reason, the Radiant Citadel is not helpless. Due to its many mysteries and its magical properties, the city attracts an unusually large number of powerful adventurers and spellcasters. If the citadel is attacked, no fewer than a dozen archmages and twenty mages led by Sholeh rally. If required, Arayat, commander of the Shieldbearers, also mobilizes his Shieldbearer veterans, while the other Speakers for the Ancestors call on the citizenry to bolster the city's defense.

The Auroral Diamond's illumination also provides strong protection. It radiates bright light throughout the city and dim light 1,000 feet beyond the city's borders. This light is akin to sunlight, which many natives of the Ethereal Plane and evil Undead abhor."

That whole passage just makes me think of a DM getting frustrated and going "Look, you just can't attack it, OK?!!!?!". If a DM put that in their homebrew game, the players' eyes would roll right out of their heads, but I guess that's the standard for official books now.

They were smart to put it in the Ethereal, instead of Astral plane, or else I would have said just notify the Ilithids or the Githyanki about it, and let them solve the problem for you. Or coax a couple of Astral Dreadnoughts into the area.

I don't know if "archmage" has an official definition in D&D now, but I assume it means "max-level wizard". If they behave the way wizards traditionally do (and the way they probably would if they existed), I feel like you could just wait for them to inevitably turn on each other. With how powerful high-level casters in 5e are, they'll probably nuke the whole place fighting each other.

EDIT: it reminds me of when they started giving the Gods statistics, and then acted surprised when players tried to kill them.

Wake the Tarrasque and lure it through a portal to the Citadel.
Repeat with Tiamat.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 14, 2022, 06:51:21 PM
.... it reminds me of when they started giving the Gods statistics, and then acted surprised when players tried to kill them.

I remember that.   

This is why in my homebrew setting, the gods while they have avatars that can be killed (which can take decades or centuries to reform depending on how powerful they are), gods themselves can't be slain by mortals.  Killing an avatar not only puts you on that god's radar but also on their followers as well.   Of course, killing all of that god's followers in my world will severely lessen their power but at the end of the day, they are still immortal beings of great power.

Quote from: Krugus on August 14, 2022, 07:10:26 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 14, 2022, 06:51:21 PM
.... it reminds me of when they started giving the Gods statistics, and then acted surprised when players tried to kill them.

I remember that.   

This is why in my homebrew setting, the gods while they have avatars that can be killed (which can take decades or centuries to reform depending on how powerful they are), gods themselves can't be slain by mortals.  Killing an avatar not only puts you on that god's radar but also on their followers as well.   Of course, killing all of that god's followers in my world will severely lessen their power but at the end of the day, they are still immortal beings of great power.

There's a lot you can do with a world where the Gods are mortal. Dark souls is a perfect example, and there's some precedent in real world mythology as well, but its obviously not what the D&D designers intended. I personally really like the idea that a God's power waxes and wanes with the faith of their followers, but that sort of needs a world where the Gods don't directly intercede in human affairs. Divine magic kind of breaks it, since it means the Gods are constantly proving their own existence.

Taking the module at its word (that is, assuming that the happy clappy cooperation the whole thing stands on wouldn't immediately disintigrate), I do think your only real options are either internal sedition, or enlisting outside help. The Ilithids would still be good contenders, though they might not be organized enough. Same with the Neogi. Shoot, even the Drow might get the job done. However, the Radiant Citadel would be a pretty juicy target for either side of the Blood War. Personally, I'd try and enlist the Devils, since they're better organized. But you want a faction that can produce antimagic fields and still be useful fighting inside of them, so that might favor the more physically-oriented Demons.

I feel like the Drow would be dark horse contenders, as well. I don't know how big the Citadel is, but I suspect that if you could get the forces of one or two of the bigger houses of Menzoberranzan there, they could steamroll the place. The Drow are experts at assault after all, and with their wizards and clerics laying down anti-magic fields a few thousand elite Drow soldiers might be able to roll over the defenders in a few hours.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 14, 2022, 07:55:11 PM
Personally, I'd try and enlist the Devils, since they're better organized.

That was my thought.  Buy a nice home in the Radiant Citadel.  Sell it to a devil that specializes in contracts.  Now he's a property owner and has the right to be there.  He starts making deals left and right, not for souls, but for voting rights.  Then all you need is patience.

Drow assassins would make sure the first line of defense (the diamond sphere) would fail.  Fifteen assassination attempts and only one of them has to succeed.  I'm partial to trebuchet with anti-magic runes on the boulders.  They can actually fire from outside of the ring of light.   

Accuse one faction of being racists against another.

Accuse one other faction of being transphobic bigots.

Quote from: Quasquetonian on August 14, 2022, 04:01:03 PM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on August 14, 2022, 11:02:20 AM(technically the orcs, goblins, ogres, hobgoblins and bugbears that revolted against Sintergoblin, a festive holiday in the city of Viroviacum and environs, where goblins are caught by man-catchers and are forced to throw candy towards the children of the city, only to be clubbed to death once they arrive on the market square)

That's a really fun bit of worldbuilding!

It of course has parallels with todays feast of Sinterklaas of when I grew up (and still is a thing). I just grew tired of the discussions about it (both sides have good points, but it's been done to death and I think with the current climate it'll die out in a generation or two.

The festive holiday (Sintergoblin) goes like this:

- Men of the city of Viroviacum paint themselves green or whatever that colour of the goblins is, and go about hunting goblins in the forests and marshes surrounding Viroviacum and the Gnome kingdom (ruled by a queen) called Gnome Anne's Land or, in vernacular, Nomansland.
- The more "progressive" elements of the city accuse these men of greenface. The fact these men go and hunt and catch goblins, is not the worst thing in their eyes: THEY PAINT THEIR FACES GREEN!
- The men return with goblins (mostly in carts such as the ones seen in the first Shrek movie) and attach man-catchers to their necks.
- The goblins then have to march, with the men (and women) of the city whipping them, towards the city square, all the while being forced to smile and throw candy and treats to the children
- When they arrive at the city square, they are to partake in the celebration feast of the First Battle of Viroviacum, that is to say, they are herded to a pen and then beaten to death.
- Their corpses are thrown into a bonfire, around which the townpeople dance and sing and make merry.
- This is a festive holiday held on the anniversary of the last invasion of the goblins - they try every so much years. Now, there came orcs, ogres, hobgoblins, bugbears and the like who are smarter than goblins, contacted some of the more "progressive" elements of the city and convinced them to leave the city gates open, they came in, butchered a lot of people and as it is now they are holding the city. And they've found a portal to the radiant citadel, where the leader of the horde is banished from.

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on August 15, 2022, 02:51:56 AM
The festive holiday (Sintergoblin) goes like this: <snip>

Wait, is this real lore from the RC book??
Are we sure that this wasn't written by a non-woke member of the crew (if such a thing would be allowed)? Or are they too narrowminded to see the implications of what they actually wrote?

So... the "progressives" were too triggered by greenface and presumably the poor treatment of goblins (which, let's be honest, is a brutally effective way of culling the goblin numbers and keeping the citizenry alert to another invasion) that they let in orc et al. marauders to take over the town? My gosh, this is precisely the right-wing argument AGAINST open borders. As horrible as this festival sounds on paper, it is a very sensible and practical thing to make sure the goblins aren't put in a position to make another invasion. The tradition of festival is actually the only thing preventing outright genocide, so it's really a "lesser of two evils" circumstance, where doing nothing would surely just be idiotic.

I'm not sure if this is actual "diversity of ideas" to inject some nuance into the book, or an epic failure of self-awareness.

As for toppling the citadel... I agree that the council is the weak link. Kill or abduct just a single member, keep it hidden for as long as possible, and the city will implode under its own weight. If you are constrained to three sessions of 3-4 hours each, remember, you can always abstract a week (or even a month) of game-time into a single roll and a couple sentences of narrative. Then just pickup when things in the citadel start failing and the panic sets in.

Quote from: Effete on August 15, 2022, 03:32:24 AM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on August 15, 2022, 02:51:56 AM
The festive holiday (Sintergoblin) goes like this: <snip>

Wait, is this real lore from the RC book??
Are we sure that this wasn't written by a non-woke member of the crew (if such a thing would be allowed)? Or are they too narrowminded to see the implications of what they actually wrote?

So... the "progressives" were too triggered by greenface and presumably the poor treatment of goblins (which, let's be honest, is a brutally effective way of culling the goblin numbers and keeping the citizenry alert to another invasion) that they let in orc et al. marauders to take over the town? My gosh, this is precisely the right-wing argument AGAINST open borders. As horrible as this festival sounds on paper, it is a very sensible and practical thing to make sure the goblins aren't put in a position to make another invasion. The tradition of festival is actually the only thing preventing outright genocide, so it's really a "lesser of two evils" circumstance, where doing nothing would surely just be idiotic.

I'm not sure if this is actual "diversity of ideas" to inject some nuance into the book, or an epic failure of self-awareness.

As for toppling the citadel... I agree that the council is the weak link. Kill or abduct just a single member, keep it hidden for as long as possible, and the city will implode under its own weight. If you are constrained to three sessions of 3-4 hours each, remember, you can always abstract a week (or even a month) of game-time into a single roll and a couple sentences of narrative. Then just pickup when things in the citadel start failing and the panic sets in.

No, the invention is all mine. I'm Belgian and quite sick of the whole "sinterklaas" discussion. Can it be seen as problematic by some? Yes, I get that. However, I think, in today's current social climate, I give it about two generations for it to completely die out. Just let it die, I say.

Open a portal to the Abyss, and walk away.

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on August 15, 2022, 04:07:51 AM
No, the invention is all mine. I'm Belgian and quite sick of the whole "sinterklaas" discussion. Can it be seen as problematic by some? Yes, I get that. However, I think, in today's current social climate, I give it about two generations for it to completely die out. Just let it die, I say.

Oh, okay.
Nevermind then.