This is not a question as to "would you play it" or not, I don't really care if you do or don't, there's something to be said for both options.

However. If you are presented with this text (which, if I'm being honest, is extremely lazy writing), how would you go about toppling this thing? For context: I will be taking the party to it, either to topple it themselves, or to be a catalyst for an army to topple it. As you can see, even though it's lazy writing, they did take in accordance the possibility of people wanting to attack it.

"The Radiant Citadel's location within the Deep Ethereal makes it difficult to assault. It keeps no standing army, but its council for defense has contingency plans it frequently refines based on intelligence from the Court of Whispers.

The city's primary protection is a powerful ward that can be activated by the Speakers for the Ancestors. When all fifteen are assembled in the council room at the center of the Preserve, by unanimous consent they can erect a diamond sphere that envelops the entire city. The diamond sphere resembles the Auroral Diamond in texture and color and deflects all attacks. Nothing can pass or teleport through it.

If the diamond sphere cannot be erected for any reason, the Radiant Citadel is not helpless. Due to its many mysteries and its magical properties, the city attracts an unusually large number of powerful adventurers and spellcasters. If the citadel is attacked, no fewer than a dozen archmages and twenty mages led by Sholeh rally. If required, Arayat, commander of the Shieldbearers, also mobilizes his Shieldbearer veterans, while the other Speakers for the Ancestors call on the citizenry to bolster the city's defense.

The Auroral Diamond's illumination also provides strong protection. It radiates bright light throughout the city and dim light 1,000 feet beyond the city's borders. This light is akin to sunlight, which many natives of the Ethereal Plane and evil Undead abhor."

I have put the most important pieces in bold. So, they are dependent on this court of whispers. I haven't yet found out what it is, having only skimmed through it, but eventually, a false whisper could lead to a false rumour or lead. If all fifteen of these speakers give consent (of course, agreeing doesn't sound special enough) they can erect this wondershield that blocks everything. So, maybe one of the party could impersonate one of said speakers and not give authorisation to raise that shield. With that shield down, defense of the city comes down to adventurers, spellcasters, shieldbearers and normal citizens. Using undead would not work, because of the light from that diamond thing.

But: how would YOU go about assailing this so-called impregnable fortress?

What's your timetable like? Do you have time to slowly infiltrate and destroy it from within over a few generations?

It should be setting an example.

So real life: three sessions of three hours TOPS

In-game: over the course of a day or so, it should be a surprise attack

Come to think of it, it is conceivable that someone who has read the book could write an "Attack on the RC" module and publish it in the DMs Guild.

If it is good, you could make some money and make fun of WoTC at the same time...

Unfortunately, I don't plan to read this anytime... So anyone feel free to make some money with that!

To respond the OP: this consensus of 15 people is an extreme weakness. It gives you 15 opportunities of simply capturing someone so they can't consent (not to mention blackmail, intimidation, seduction, betrayal, bribery, etc.).

But, nowadays, the best warfare is probably psi-ops: plant dissent within the citadel, denounce these powerful mages as having undeserved magical powers, turn the citizenry against them. Make them believe they can get rich by plundering the powerful. Demand equal representation for the large amount of visitors such citadel must have.

Divide and conquer.

The Speakers are the fortress's weakness.  They need to be legitimately elected by the remnants of one of a set of host civilizations, and then confirmed by the soul-agglomeration thingys.  And if you are ever missing any...

Quote
Once a Speaker no longer holds office, they lose the powers related to their position. If a Speaker steps down before the end of their term or dies while in office, all basic necessities in the Radiant Citadel gradually cease to function. Unless a suitable replacement for that Speaker is elected and approved by the Dawn Incarnates within thirty days, plants in the Radiant Citadel stop growing, wells run dry, and lighting ceases to function. Similarly, a Speaker cannot leave the Radiant Citadel for more than thirty days before the city's basic utilities begin to fail.

So you identify the most vulnerable of the ethnic ancestor groups.  You move in your strike forces and keep them quiet and concealed.  Then you murder your target Speaker, and either massacre or suborn their ethnic group.  You keep up a targeted campaign of mayhem and make full use of magical nondetection, and once you hit the month point, people will have to start evacuating the Citadel en masse.

You can be really creative with this if you want.  Like, if you have a Simulacra or succubus impersonator on hand, you could theoretically impersonate a Speaker for most of the month grace period without anyone knowing what happened.  You'll need to manufacture a reason to stay out of the area that the sparkle-ghosts that appoint the Speakers, because they can almost certainly pick out your imposter, but if you can kill off more than one and hide both, you can absolutely set up a lot of paranoia among the other Speakers about who the imposters are, and what ethnicities they need to re-elect from.

Heck, a hilarious wrinkle to add to that scheme is the language listed above.  If you assassinate a Speaker, Raise them, and Modify Memory them so they forget that they were temporarily dead...well, they died in office.  One month later, the shit starts turning off.

You can also rile up the outsiders against the citadel. Encourage envy - why should the inhabitants of the citadel have all this wealth and sunlight while the rest of the multiverse suffers? Soon you'll have the proverbial barbarians at the gates.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on August 14, 2022, 10:54:02 AM
You can also rile up the outsiders against the citadel. Encourage envy - why should the inhabitants of the citadel have all this wealth and sunlight while the rest of the multiverse suffers? Soon you'll have the proverbial barbarians at the gates.

That's just it - the Barbarians ARE at the gates. Led by some orc that once was kicked out of the Citadel for doing what orcs do, that is, kill and pillage and underwent a ritual so he can't technically enter again as long as the magical countermeasures are active. He also can't technically kill and pillage in said city. But he wants revenge, so he amassed a horde (technically the orcs, goblins, ogres, hobgoblins and bugbears that revolted against Sintergoblin, a festive holiday in the city of Viroviacum and environs, where goblins are caught by man-catchers and are forced to throw candy towards the children of the city, only to be clubbed to death once they arrive on the market square), ransacked the city of Viroviacum, found a portal there and now led his troops to the outskirts of the Radiant Citadel but he can't enter, someone must disable the magic of the city.

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on August 14, 2022, 07:40:10 AM
This is not a question as to "would you play it" or not, I don't really care if you do or don't, there's something to be said for both options.

However. If you are presented with this text (which, if I'm being honest, is extremely lazy writing), how would you go about toppling this thing? For context: I will be taking the party to it, either to topple it themselves, or to be a catalyst for an army to topple it. As you can see, even though it's lazy writing, they did take in accordance the possibility of people wanting to attack it.

"The Radiant Citadel's location within the Deep Ethereal makes it difficult to assault. It keeps no standing army, but its council for defense has contingency plans it frequently refines based on intelligence from the Court of Whispers.

The city's primary protection is a powerful ward that can be activated by the Speakers for the Ancestors. When all fifteen are assembled in the council room at the center of the Preserve, by unanimous consent they can erect a diamond sphere that envelops the entire city. The diamond sphere resembles the Auroral Diamond in texture and color and deflects all attacks. Nothing can pass or teleport through it.

If the diamond sphere cannot be erected for any reason, the Radiant Citadel is not helpless. Due to its many mysteries and its magical properties, the city attracts an unusually large number of powerful adventurers and spellcasters. If the citadel is attacked, no fewer than a dozen archmages and twenty mages led by Sholeh rally. If required, Arayat, commander of the Shieldbearers, also mobilizes his Shieldbearer veterans, while the other Speakers for the Ancestors call on the citizenry to bolster the city's defense.

The Auroral Diamond's illumination also provides strong protection. It radiates bright light throughout the city and dim light 1,000 feet beyond the city's borders. This light is akin to sunlight, which many natives of the Ethereal Plane and evil Undead abhor."

I have put the most important pieces in bold. So, they are dependent on this court of whispers. I haven't yet found out what it is, having only skimmed through it, but eventually, a false whisper could lead to a false rumour or lead. If all fifteen of these speakers give consent (of course, agreeing doesn't sound special enough) they can erect this wondershield that blocks everything. So, maybe one of the party could impersonate one of said speakers and not give authorisation to raise that shield. With that shield down, defense of the city comes down to adventurers, spellcasters, shieldbearers and normal citizens. Using undead would not work, because of the light from that diamond thing.

But: how would YOU go about assailing this so-called impregnable fortress?

Take a meson gun spinal mount from Traveller d20 and move the firing aperture through a Gate to fire upon the Radiant Citadel. Meson Guns do 16d20 damage and ignore all armor.

You need all fifteen in concurrence to erect the magic force shield? Wow. As people have noted, you suborn just ONE and you've eliminated their primary defense.

Also, the Ethereal Plane in general is not exactly super difficult to get to or travel in.

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 14, 2022, 12:01:36 PM
Take a meson gun spinal mount from Traveller d20 and move the firing aperture through a Gate to fire upon the Radiant Citadel. Meson Guns do 16d20 damage and ignore all armor.

The gate/teleport interdiction would put a crimp on that. Unless you sneak attacked them. Put Dessler at the helm and maneuver behind the citadel for backstab bonus when you fire the Mega Smasher. 

heh-heh.

As for toppling the Citadel? Why? If it were a problem location that would be a different story. But theres a bazillion forts and domains in the astral and etherial that are in more need of getting put down.

Now there could be the twist that the Citadel is just another Witchlight Carnival. A pretty face hiding a malevolent core. The problem then becomes not that of toppling the place. But of cutting out the cancer without killing the patient. Preserve the positive. Put to the sword the negative.

As a DM I see the biggest weakness of the Citadel being the need for 100% agreement to erect the barrier. Which reads like a low end elven Mythal. Those things are capable of that and far more. So as long as you can get the drop on them any attacker could do alot of damage before anyone could gather and shut it down. And by then you could have a small army inside the gates.

This one flaw alone makes one question how the place is still standing. Its not like Sigil which which has a god keeping an eye on things 24/7.

Quote from: robertliguori on August 14, 2022, 10:43:34 AM
The Speakers are the fortress's weakness.  They need to be legitimately elected by the remnants of one of a set of host civilizations, and then confirmed by the soul-agglomeration thingys.  And if you are ever missing any...

Quote
Once a Speaker no longer holds office, they lose the powers related to their position. If a Speaker steps down before the end of their term or dies while in office, all basic necessities in the Radiant Citadel gradually cease to function. Unless a suitable replacement for that Speaker is elected and approved by the Dawn Incarnates within thirty days, plants in the Radiant Citadel stop growing, wells run dry, and lighting ceases to function. Similarly, a Speaker cannot leave the Radiant Citadel for more than thirty days before the city's basic utilities begin to fail.

So you identify the most vulnerable of the ethnic ancestor groups.  You move in your strike forces and keep them quiet and concealed.  Then you murder your target Speaker, and either massacre or suborn their ethnic group.  You keep up a targeted campaign of mayhem and make full use of magical nondetection, and once you hit the month point, people will have to start evacuating the Citadel en masse.

You can be really creative with this if you want.  Like, if you have a Simulacra or succubus impersonator on hand, you could theoretically impersonate a Speaker for most of the month grace period without anyone knowing what happened.  You'll need to manufacture a reason to stay out of the area that the sparkle-ghosts that appoint the Speakers, because they can almost certainly pick out your imposter, but if you can kill off more than one and hide both, you can absolutely set up a lot of paranoia among the other Speakers about who the imposters are, and what ethnicities they need to re-elect from.

Heck, a hilarious wrinkle to add to that scheme is the language listed above.  If you assassinate a Speaker, Raise them, and Modify Memory them so they forget that they were temporarily dead...well, they died in office.  One month later, the shit starts turning off.

Yes, let's show them their idea is terrible...by promoting PCs engaging in ethnic cleansing of the "most vulnerable." That sounds worse than playing RC straight.

Greetings!

Genghis Khan would gather together naked citizens from amongst the captured population, and send them against remaining defending troops in human waves, so that they soak up defender's fire and resources--as well as promoting emotional and psychological trauma as the defenders are forced to fire upon their fellow citizens, friends, and family.

As progress in the conquest of the city is made, slaughter every male citizen that stands taller than a wagon wheel. Take every woman as a slave. Plunder them all. Lay waste to the young and old. Stack the dead bodies up in heaps, and form mountains of severed skulls, to bask in the unnatural light.

Ruthlessly plunder the city of all wealth and everything of value. Purposely seek out and destroy every shrine, temple, library, and government building. Take extra efforts to destroy any memory of culture the city had, and turn the entire place into a charnel house of blood, fire, and blackened ruins. Have long rows of thousands of people, crucified at the gates of the city, and the walls stretching outward.

Settle the ruins as desired, to remake the place entirely into something new, or let the fires and rage of conquest utterly devour the city, giving the warriors free reign to slaughter and plunder as they desire. Leave the blackened ruins to stand, adorned with the mountains of skulls, the crucified enemies, and the stacks of bodies, and the utter imagery of devastation and conquest as a testimony to the might of the conquerors, and the pathetic weakness of the defenders.

That is what Genghis Khan would have done.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Omega on August 14, 2022, 12:26:25 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 14, 2022, 12:01:36 PM
Take a meson gun spinal mount from Traveller d20 and move the firing aperture through a Gate to fire upon the Radiant Citadel. Meson Guns do 16d20 damage and ignore all armor.

The gate/teleport interdiction would put a crimp on that. Unless you sneak attacked them. Put Dessler at the helm and maneuver behind the citadel for backstab bonus when you fire the Mega Smasher. 

heh-heh.

As for toppling the Citadel? Why? If it were a problem location that would be a different story. But theres a bazillion forts and domains in the astral and etherial that are in more need of getting put down.

Now there could be the twist that the Citadel is just another Witchlight Carnival. A pretty face hiding a malevolent core. The problem then becomes not that of toppling the place. But of cutting out the cancer without killing the patient. Preserve the positive. Put to the sword the negative.

As a DM I see the biggest weakness of the Citadel being the need for 100% agreement to erect the barrier. Which reads like a low end elven Mythal. Those things are capable of that and far more. So as long as you can get the drop on them any attacker could do alot of damage before anyone could gather and shut it down. And by then you could have a small army inside the gates.

This one flaw alone makes one question how the place is still standing. Its not like Sigil which which has a god keeping an eye on things 24/7.

Well, if you want to be realistic about it........

Just sit back and wait for them to eat themselves, as all woke seem to do. Or you could accelerate the process by introducing some succubus' to seduce the male governing population and thus cause mayhem, which is also something that seems to happen a lot to the woke.

Quote from: SHARK on August 14, 2022, 02:19:10 PM
Greetings!

Genghis Khan would gather together naked citizens from amongst the captured population, and send them against remaining defending troops in human waves, so that they soak up defender's fire and resources--as well as promoting emotional and psychological trauma as the defenders are forced to fire upon their fellow citizens, friends, and family.

As progress in the conquest of the city is made, slaughter every male citizen that stands taller than a wagon wheel. Take every woman as a slave. Plunder them all. Lay waste to the young and old. Stack the dead bodies up in heaps, and form mountains of severed skulls, to bask in the unnatural light.

Ruthlessly plunder the city of all wealth and everything of value. Purposely seek out and destroy every shrine, temple, library, and government building. Take extra efforts to destroy any memory of culture the city had, and turn the entire place into a charnel house of blood, fire, and blackened ruins. Have long rows of thousands of people, crucified at the gates of the city, and the walls stretching outward.

Settle the ruins as desired, to remake the place entirely into something new, or let the fires and rage of conquest utterly devour the city, giving the warriors free reign to slaughter and plunder as they desire. Leave the blackened ruins to stand, adorned with the mountains of skulls, the crucified enemies, and the stacks of bodies, and the utter imagery of devastation and conquest as a testimony to the might of the conquerors, and the pathetic weakness of the defenders.

That is what Genghis Khan would have done.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Tsar Bomba!