Quote from: Simlasa;704691Yeah, Unknown Armies belongs for sure.
My reaction to Dread is much the same, all I ever hear about is the Jenga gimmick... what else does it have going for it?

Amongst other things, becoming confused with Dread: The First Book of Pandemonium so often that the developer - Rafael Chandler of Teratic Tome fame - gave up and renamed the thing for its most recent edition (Pandemonio, which also includes all the stuff from Scorn: The Second Book of Pandemonium).

Quote from: RPGPundit;705559Dread and Don't Rest Your Head aren't RPGs.

Suggestion: replace them with Over the Edge and either Unknown Armies or Beyond the Superntural.

RPGPundit

Aright, even if Dread is some worthless gimmick and is not an RPG, this is the first I've heard Don't Rest Your Head is beneath shit. If not an RPG, and taking it is an article of faith the people here hate it, what is it?

Also, again, I only put on the list games I have an experience with - I have no experience with Over the Edge, either Unknown Armies, Beyond the Superntural.

Quote from: GrumpyReviews;705616Also, again, I only put on the list games I have an experience with - I have no experience with Over the Edge, either Unknown Armies, Beyond the Superntural.

Well, there's why you're getting a hostile response - Unknown Armies is one of the most revered horror RPGs of the last 20 years and I think there's a strong argument that if you're trying to do a feature on horror RPGs and haven't looked into it then your research is missing something, particularly since UA is more prominent in terms of popularity, critical acclaim, and commercial success than a high proportion of the games on your list.

It's one of the few games which has a wide acceptance both here and on RPG.net, to boot. How many other games can you say that about?

(Also, WTF is with listing Delta Green as it's own game? It's a supplement.)

In the interest of preventing the whole "Is it or isn't it" circle-jerk, judge for yourselves.

The rest of this post is text from pages 5-8 of Don't Rest Your Head by Evil Hat Productions.  Example of play posted under fair use for examination, criticism, yadda, yadda, etc.

Running on Fumes
Fred and Lydia have sat down to play a game of Don't Rest Your Head. Lydia's going to grab a handful of pain dice (page 23) and play the GM.  Fred's creating a protagonist (page 10) named Diesel Remmick, a failed rockstar on the run from loan sharks, who's just come home to find his roommate's head turned into a smear of blood on the livingroom wall.

Fred: "Holy crap!" Diesel's sure that this is a message from his creditors. He's gonna grab his stuff and book.

Lydia:  Okay.  You're back in your room, grabbing your knapsack, and so on, when you hear a pounding on the front door.

Fred: Diesel stays quiet, sneaks up to the front door, and puts an ear to the door.  He doesn't want to get near a window – too easy to get seen.

Lydia: There's something you might pick up on ... We'll roll some dice.  You roll yours, and I'll be rolling a single pain die.

Fred:  Okay.  I've got 3 Discipline [page 12], and no Exhaustion yet.  I can add one Exhaustion die [page 17] if I want to, or as much Madness [page 20] as I like, right?

Lydia:  Right.  The Exhaustion will stay with you, but you can add up to six Madness dice on any roll without it hanging around.  But honestly, this is a simple one – like I said, I'm only rolling one here.

Fred: Yeah, okay.  Rolling.Fred rolls three white dice, representing his Discipline.  He gets 5, 3, 2.  Lydia rolls one die, representing Pain – essentially, the difficulty of the task.  She gets a 6.

Fred: All right, that's 2 dice at 3 or under, so 2 successes [page 14].  Only one type of dice here, Discipline, and the highest die shows 5, so that's the strength [page 14].

Lydia: No successes here, but Pain got a 6 strength, so Pain dominates [page 14].

Fred: Dang it!

Lydia: That means I get a Coin of Despair [ page 26]. Lydia places a coin into a dark bowl sitting on the table and continues.

Lydia:  But,  let's  see,  two  successes  ...  that's  good  enough  to  make  out  a whirring, ticking sound through the door, when it's not getting pounded on.  Strange. After  a  bit,  the  pounding  subsides,  and  someone  starts shouting. "Police!  Open up!"

Fred: Aw, hell, no.  Okay: time to bolt out the back window.

Lydia: I'm pretty sure your pal lives – lived – in an apartment complex.

Fred: Well, he isn't rich.  I'm betting you're about to tell me I've got a several-story drop.  You're smiling.  Yeah.  Great.

Lydia: Heh.  You gave me the set-up [page 11], I'm just elaborating here.

Fred:  Do I have time to put together a rope out of bedsheets, or something like that?

Lydia: The police are banging down the door, man.  What do you think?

Fred:  I think I'm not going to sit around and depend on your kindness.  All right.  I guess the best defense is a good offense – there's no way I'm going to explain away the dead dude on the couch as not my fault.

Lydia: Fair assumption.

Fred:  I've got an Exhaustion Talent [page 30] for "Breaking Things".  I could use that to bust out through the door and make a run for it, right?

Lydia: Sure, I'd allow it.  But you've got to have some Exhaustion in your pool,  and  right  now,  you  don't  have  that.  You  can  increase  it  by  one whenever you roll [page 17].  Since you'll be doing that, you may as well make a "Major Use" of your talent [page 31].

Fred: That means I'd get to increase my Exhaustion to one, roll that die along with my Discipline, and add an automatic one success to whatever comes up, right?

Lydia:  Exactly.  I'll be throwing four Pain in your way for whatever's outside the door, and another two for the door itself.

Fred:  Six dice against my four, with me adding one success.  Hnh.  It'd be nice to bring some more dice into it – I can add Madness whenever I want, right?  Heh – may as well, this is a desperate measure, and a little crazy.  I can see it.

Lydia: Yep.  Let's roll.Lydia rolls her 6 dice, and gets 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6.  

Lydia: Three successes, strength 6, followed by a 5.  You'll need to get three or more successes for this to turn out how you want it, and you'll need two sixes of one particular type in order for that type to dominate.

Fred: Roger that.  Okay, let me get this worked out...Fred adds one black die to his pool, as Exhaustion [page 17], which will stay with him after he rolls.  He also adds two red dice, as Madness [page 20], which will go away after the roll. Fred rolls.  His three white (Discipline) dice come up 5, 2, 2; his one black (Exhaustion) die comes up 4; his two red (Madness) dice show 6, 6.

Fred:  Man!  Okay, I got 2 dice at 3 or less, for two successes.  But I did a major use of my Breaking Things exhaustion talent, so that adds one.  I got the three successes.  I think you said that's a win?

Lydia: Yep.  Protagonists win ties, on successes.

Fred: Rockin'.  Okay, and, madness is my strongest – I got two sixes in it.

Lydia: Then Madness dominates, since I got a six-five [page 16].  That means two things.  One, the situation gets more chaotic – honestly, I think we'll have that already covered.  But also, you'll have to check off a response [page 20] and behave accordingly.

Fred: Diesel only has three boxes of Fight, under Responses [page 13].  No Flight at all.  I guess I'm going to stand and fight these dudes, against my better judgment.  

Lydia: Yeah.  Maybe you should've taken some Flight if you were planning on running a lot.  We can adjust that after the session, if you want.

Fred: Nah.  I see Diesel as a guy whose anger gets the best of him – this fits.  So, I won – can I narrate this a bit?

Lydia: Sure.

Fred: Diesel busts out of the door in the middle of one of their poundings, trying to take them by surprise.  He comes out with his fists swinging, socking the first guy he sees.  He's shouting.  "You want a piece of me?  I got plen'y of this for you, pigs!"

Lydia: On three successes, you're pretty impressive.  The guy right in front of the door goes flying, smacks into the walkway rail, and tumbles over, falling.  He's sort of strangely silent as he falls, save for some whirring, clicking sounds.  You notice two things about him before you turn to deal with his friends.

Fred: And those would be...

Lydia: Well, for one, he's wearing a British bobby's uniform and, well.  This is Pittsburgh.  But what grabs your eye more, is that he has a large turnkey stuck into his back, like a toy soldier.  It's turning slowly.  But then he falls out of sight, and the other two guys are on top of you.

Fred: Uh... "Please let this be a flashback.  Mechanical brit-cops?!"

Lydia: The other two are flanking you, and they look ready to restrain, or even kill you.  No guns, which is sort of a blessing, but their faces are blank.  One of them shouts, "You have the right to remain silent!"  What are you doing about them?

Fred:  "Hah!  Rock  and  roll,  piggie!"  Uh...  these  guys  look  like  they're clockwork, right?  And I'm feeling like Diesel's in just the kind of altered state that it might be time for me to tap into my Madness Talent [page 32].

Lydia:  Sure.  Just because you've never used it before doesn't mean you can't tap into it.  It's part of your Awakening to the Mad City [page 45].

Fred:  Right on.  Okay, my Madness Talent's called "Rhythm Nation" and basically it means I can hear the secret heartbeat of something, and change it with a song.  Can I use it on these guys?  Both of them?

Lydia:  Don't see why not, but I'd make you use at least three Madness dice [page 32] if you're using your mojo on both of 'em at once.

Fred: That's fair.  Okay, cool.  Not quite understanding what I'm doing, I focus on the both of them, and start singing out a punk rendition of They  Might  Be  Giants'  "Don't  Let's  Start"  –  it's  kinda  herky-jerky,  all syncopated.  I figure clockwork doesn't really groove to syncopation, and will grind itself apart.

Lydia: Love it.  Okay, they've lost one guy, and you're not breaking through a door, but they're flanking you, making it hard to concentrate on both of them.  I'll be rolling 5 Pain dice.

Fred: And I'll be rolling 3 Discipline, 1 Exhaustion – I can increase that again, right? – and 3 Madness, 'cause that's what you told me I'd need to hit them both.

Lydia: Right.  And, yeah, you can add another Exhaustion die – which will also stick around after the roll – if that's what you want.  Not sure there's a point to it, though, when you can just add Madness without it sticking.  You'll  have  plenty  of  chances  to  deliberately  or  accidentally  [page  17] increase your Exhaustion down the road.

Fred: Yeah, fair point.  Okay, let's make that 4 madness, just to give me an extra edge.  Rolling!Lydia's 5 dice turn up 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, getting her only 1 success and a weak strength of 5 for Pain. Fred's dice break down as follows.  His three Discipline dice yield 4, 3, 2 – two successes, strength four.  His one Exhaustion die comes up 6 – no successes, strength six.  His four Madness drop 5, 5, 3, 3 – two successes, strength five.

Fred: I've got ... four total successes, and Exhaustion dominates.  Whew – that's going to be tiring.

Lydia:  Yep.  Since  Exhaustion  dominates  [page  17],  your  resources  are definitely taxed.  Your Exhaustion total increases by one, so now you've got two Exhaustion dice stuck to you.  Told ya that could be happening. But it's early, so you aren't really in much danger of crashing yet [page 18].  And at four successes, you're far in the lead.  The two clockwork policemen advance on you as you sing, but suddenly they stop and start and stop and start – then shudder, and burst open, shooting springs and gears all over the place.

Fred: Diesel's not even stopping long enough to consider how weird it is that that worked.  He heads for the stairs, running for his life.

Quote from: Warthur;705615Amongst other things, becoming confused with Dread: The First Book of Pandemonium so often that the developer - Rafael Chandler of Teratic Tome fame - gave up and renamed the thing for its most recent edition (Pandemonio, which also includes all the stuff from Scorn: The Second Book of Pandemonium).

I don't get how that is in any way an endorsement of the Jenga game...
Though it did cause me to go double check which one I got in the recent Bundle of Holding and realize I missed the Bundle of Tentacles... crap!

Quote from: CRKrueger;705623In the interest of preventing the whole "Is it or isn't it" circle-jerk, judge for yourselves.

(...)

RPG or not, from your quotation that sure comes across as one tiresome game and quite anti-immersive. IMHO it shouldn't be in the list at all.