...say something you DO like or think is good about it or at the very worst you don't mind.
And I'll start:
The mechanic of A/E/D/U of 4e closely mirrors things in previous editions (going all the way back to OD&D) things like : a paladin's laying on of hands (a "daily") a cleric's turning of undead (encounter or at-will depending on the outcome of the turn undead roll) a thief moving silently (utility, or perhaps at-will). The THEORY of it and putting it in that context, I don't mind (there's things about it I do very much mind but that's not what this thread is for, so don't ask about it).
So anyone else? Go. Remember, this is anti-edition warring. No gettin' your ya-ya's out here.
4e D&D is a sleek, well-designed game system that accomplishes what it's set out to do.
I really like the smell of dungeon tiles when you remove them from their cellophane packaging. It must be that Chinese formaldehyde they use in their chipboard making process. Simply intoxicating.
3.x, when played as intended (ie.. Like AD&D), is actually quite enjoyable.
AD&D 1st Edition has a whole lot of wild and creative ideas in there.
I like quite a few of the 4e fluff changes.
Dumb names aside I like the feywild/shadowdark and the Neitervale.
3.x/Pathfinder D&D's class abilities inspire and overwhelm me.
When playing with a group that doesn't care about min/maxing and instead prefers archetypes, 3.x is pretty damn good.
I like that 4e lead to a game like Castle Ravenloft
Quote from: Piestrio;7315263.x, when played as intended (ie.. Like AD&D), is actually quite enjoyable.
Yes, I've been having lots of fun with the Pathfinder group I joined. There's one min-maxer in the group but the DM has a tight leash on him.
Quote from: Sacrosanct;731548When playing with a group that doesn't care about min/maxing and instead prefers archetypes, 3.x is pretty damn good.
I like min/maxing in 3.x* ;)
*when just playing around with the system. On the odd occasions when I play 3.x, I try not to get too crazy with it. Out of game I'm a GMs nightmare of rules lawyering, min-maxing, and munchinism**, in game I try to only be an occasional pain in the ass with fun characters that add to the experience.
**I'm really not kidding, but I call it "critical analysis" and I totally get that may make me a freak, but I also wash my hands afterwards :-)
Playing a fighter in 3e, deciding how much I could afford to power attack for each turn was fun from both a gambling point of view and a tactical one.
The character customization in 3.x, when it isn't abused, let's people make a huge variety of characters with different capabilities.
3.0, 3.5, and 4.0 has some very nice maps.
Also, I like Pathfinder Archetypes. Reminds me of kits from back in AD&D. Lets me customize my character to a theme without having to be Level 3 this, level 5 that, etc.
I like the smorgasbord of character options offered by 3.5e and PF by way of feats and prestige classes. This goes double for FantasyCraft.
I like 4e's emphasis on movement during combat.
I like Trail of Cthulhu's Ken Hite-penned discussion of and ideas for the Mythos deities.
I think Hero does a bitchin' job of modelling extraordinary characters from all over genre fiction.
I like Rolemaster's deadly combat system and hilarious crits.
I like that Star Wars:EotE lets me play a robot while using the normal chargen rules. I also like the way they handled "classes" and "specializations." The idea behind attribute defaults to skill being a smaller die and skill levels being a replacement with a higher die with a greater chance of success was a good idea.
Quote from: Piestrio;7315263.x, when played as intended (ie.. Like AD&D), is actually quite enjoyable.
Yup.
Mongoose Traveller has a nice, unified task resolution mechanic and great expandability to differing forms of Scifi gaming.
I like the art in the CoC 7e QuickStart rules.
Quote from: The Butcher;731577I like Trail of Cthulhu's Ken Hite-penned discussion of and ideas for the Mythos deities.
Oh yes! I don't like their 'fix' for CoC but I do think the discussions of the mythos, the flavor of the ToC stuff is great. They're make great supplements for CoC.
GURPS 4e is exactly what I asked for in a new edition in one important respect: It is indeed far more complete than 3e, and does in two books what 3e took core + three compendiums to do.
Fighters are not utter shit in high-level play in D&D4.
I love Marvel Super Heroes, so the colorful table in TSR's Gamma World 3rd ed. is something I can dig. It still fit into a pretty small package, too, and seemed to have the old familiar setting elements.
Marc Miller's Traveller 4 offered a look at an earlier Imperium, and recaptured some of the feel of earlier Traveller rules sets compared with Mega and New Era. Illustrations conveyed a sense of classic adventure SF, and the selection of careers and gadgets was interesting.
Mongoose RuneQuest 1st ed. offered a look at an earlier Age of Glorantha, and seemed in many ways to bring the presentation "up to date" with industry standards. Above all, it brought the game in some form back into stores!
The quality and production values of Pathfinder's setting materials are top-notch.
I've found Megatraveller's cinematic nugget adventure system to be loose enough to allow for Player actions while being tight enough to provide structure for an actual adventure.
Poison'd, FATAL, and Maid have given me valuable insight into what kinds of play should not be catered to at the game table.
I find the writing style of Burning Wheel hilarious, especially the jokes embedded in the life paths.
The basic idea of 'prestige class' in Star Wars d20 is a neat idea.
HERO 5th shows the true secret to being a genuine combat monster -- having an amazing amount of dexterity. You are more accurate to hit, you dodge incoming attacks with ease, you just all around get more things done than the slower guys.
Quote from: gonster;731609HERO 5th shows the true secret to being a genuine combat monster -- having an amazing amount of dexterity. You are more accurate to hit, you dodge incoming attacks with ease, you just all around get more things done than the slower guys.
How is that different from 1st-4th, 6th? Or is the point that it's not?
Quote from: The Butcher;731577I like the smorgasbord of character options offered by 3.5e and PF by way of feats and prestige classes. This goes double for FantasyCraft.
...
Ditto and Double Doubled.
My thoughts;
- The setting and background of Kult was mind blowing to me. Just dripping with horror and intense dark ideas. It still creeps me out.
- Alternity's Star Drive was the perfect setup for explorers in space. I really dig the various empires and corporations. This will remain one of my all time favorite sci-fi settings. I really wish someone would polish it up, create a system for it (maybe a SWN like approach?), and publish it. :-)
- Me and my group of the day really enjoyed AD&D2er Combat & Tactics and Spells & Powers. I loved the ability to customize the game within a framework. It also inspired some of us that were getting tired of D&D to keep on playing for a while.
- No one can do monsters like D&D/Pathfinder. I own every Pathfinder monster book in PDF. You can mine that gorgeous menagerie for foes for any game!
- I LOVE the Scarred Lands! What a gem of a setting, wonderful mythical history, and another really creepy place to adventure in. The books were done well IMHO and added lots of great options to the game.
- I also love Eberron! That was how I envisioned D&D in my mind and the setting just clicked with me. I ran a long campaign in this setting and it consistently provided oodles of ideas for adventure.
Quote from: Phillip;731615How is that different from 1st-4th, 6th? Or is the point that it's not?
Not different from 1st-4th, but 6th did break out a lot of the derived stats that made DEX a super-stat for combat purposes (and the Advanced Player's Guide included another change or two to increase that trend).
I have friends who love 3e and I am happy that Paizo made a game that makes my friends happy. For 3e fans, Pathfinder appears to be a great gift and joy.
I am also happy for friends who enjoy RPGA and Pathfinder's living campaigns which provide them with free or low cost adventures where they can build their characters over time through story arcs that they enjoy.
I love the new edition of the Iron Kingdoms Roleplaying Game.
The two career system is just genius. IT allows you to make an incredible array of characters and does so in a streamlined manner. The new system fits the setting so much better than the d20 version.
I was looking over my Dragon Age RPG and realized how close to RQ6 the Stunting system is. While the RQ6 Special Effects are determined by differences in the level of successes; the Dragon Age Stunts are gained depending on the combination of the dice rolled. They are in essence very similar in their function however.
A few years ago, with my growing dissatisfaction with D&D 3/4e; I discovered B/X era D&D and promptly fell in love. The simplicity of the rules just spoke to me. I also branched out into retroclones wherein I found Adventurer Conqueror King. ACK is exactly what I want from a D&D rules system. Everything from the unified rolls mechanics, ascending AC, Proficiency system, and more options for Racial Classes is just perfect.
Character creation in 3e is more flexible than in any other edition of D&D.
On paper, FATE looks like a great balance or traditional roleplaying with player narrative authority.
I really like Pathfinder's various character creation options for differentiating PCs. As said, it's a lot like 2e's kits (wich I also liked a lot!) in that it makes a ton of extra classes, multiclassing, etc, largely unnecessary wich is a huge plus! Besides, as an archivist myself, the fact that Archivist is a pretty good Bard variation rocks! :D I also like PF's take on monsters, the use of HPL/CoC monsters, the various stuff for Fighters (weapon styles), Rangers (ditto) and Sorcerers (backgrounds - I wanna play a half-orc sorceress with aberration background for some reason...) etc etc etc. It's really cool and awesome.
For 4e I like how it made Fighters good thru the whole game.
Heck, I was doing that before you started the thread.
d20 Gamma World: Really good DMG, usefull for not just GW. Interesting "freeform magic" system in the way nanites are used. Reminded me of Mage. Not surprising as this iteration of GW was from White Wolf. PC start towns and local communities as PCs. Great idea half-ass presented and never realized.
D&D Gamma World: Streamlines 4e nicely. PC character that is a cluster of rats (or kittens) in the shape of a person.
Fate Aspects are great for adding formal packages, advantages and disadvantages to characters without messing around with point totals.
The book layout and design for 4e is top-notch. So are the setting books.
Gurps 4e fixed a number of issues I had with 3e, especially combat-related stuff.
I like AD&D multi-classing, as well as reaction adjustments for talk-y challenges.
I like Kits & Specialty Priests from AD&D2.
I like the weapon mastery rules from BECMI.
I like the unified backend system in 3E.
I like the setting of 4E (if not the thingname nomenclature), as well as the updated mechanics and the ritual system.
As a tool for world-building, I like 3e prestige classes.
Dispite my dislike of D&D4e, I think Essentials is the game we should have gotten from the get go. It felt more like a completed game and not a running playtest like the original 4e launch. It is sad they stopped supporting Essentials, but I guess they realized they needed a whole new system by that point.
Of everything to come out of 4e, I think the implied setting of the Nentir Vale was exceptionally well done. I was really heartbroken when they canceled the full setting book that was announced...
I would still like to see a setting book, but now that 5e seems to be tied exclusively to The Forgotten Realms, I doubt we ever will.
I think Star Wars: Saga Edition did a fairly good job of pulling the non-Force using classes upwards, rather than trying to drag Jedi down.
When in the hands of two invested players Riddle of Steel's combat system feels like long, tense moments of silence punctuated by fury and confusion, which is exactly how a fight feels.
Godlike weaves superheros into the brutality of WWII in a way not yet equaled.
Quote from: YourSwordisMine;731729Dispite my dislike of D&D4e, I think Essentials is the game we should have gotten from the get go. It felt more like a completed game and not a running playtest like the original 4e launch. It is sad they stopped supporting Essentials, but I guess they realized they needed a whole new system by that point.
Yeah, the publication order should have been reversed :p
I think Reign pretty much sucks, but I like their "character backstory" tables; I forget if those are random or if I made them random... anyways, they're pretty good.
RPGPundit
I like to give backhanded compliments to games I don't like.
Quote from: JonWake;732053When in the hands of two invested players Riddle of Steel's combat system feels like long, tense moments of silence punctuated by fury and confusion, which is exactly how a fight feels.
Oh lord yes. When everything worked right the RoS combat system was amazingly fun.
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;732438I like to give backhanded compliments to games I don't like.
There are a few back handed compliments but overall I like the direction of the thread.
Quote from: Piestrio;732472There are a few back handed compliments but overall I like the direction of the thread.
Agreed, I think people are being very genuine for the most part in commending games they don't like for the things they did that they do like.
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;732438I like to give backhanded compliments to games I don't like.
So you decided to write the least productive post of this thread, huh? Why am I not surprised?
One I totally forgot.
2nd Ed Buck Rogers: Only saw this briefly at Gen Con.
The setting felt closer to its roots and the serial than the previous RPG did. Too bad TSR collapsed before it could be fleshed out more as it seemed to have potential. Mechanics seemed ok. Fairly simple stuff really. Could have been a viable entry level RPG to ease into.