Quote from: Pat;1094394Why?

Why are intelligent creatures able to choose to be good or evil?

Quote from: Shasarak;1094395Why are intelligent creatures able to choose to be good or evil?

You packed a huge number of assumptions into that "of course". I just wondered if you'd actually examined those assumptions, but it seems not to be the case.

Quote from: Pat;1094449You packed a huge number of assumptions into that "of course". I just wondered if you'd actually examined those assumptions, but it seems not to be the case.

Hmm, evidently.

Quote from: Razor 007;1093377How exactly is your setting supposed to accommodate all of those dragons?

Depends on how powerful dragons get in your setting.

Here's the black dragon from S&W SRD.
Adult Black Dragon (7 HD): HD 7 (28hp); AC 2 [17]; Atk 2 claws (1d4), 1 bite (3d6); Move 9 (Fly 24); Save 9; AL C; CL/XP 9/1100; Special: Spits acid.

It spits acid in a line...which means 1-2 PCs get hit.
It's claws are a daggers (2.5 points average).
AC 17 is just plate armor.
It's bite is badass (10.5 point average)
It has great saves, but its HP is only ok (28 HP)

Quote from: Razor 007;1093377Dragons need to be few and far between, or else civilization will completely collapse.

A bronze age civilization has companies of archers, and most faux-medieval settings have crossbows, arbalests, etc.

Dragons can threaten a village, but a fortified town will take down a dragon swiftly.

If 20 archers of 0 level fire at the Black Dragon, 3 with hit and 1 will crit. Let's say the crit does max damage.
Even if we're using D6 for bow damage, the dragon just took (3x3.5 + 6) 17.5 damage.

That's enough to get the dragon to flee. It's got 10 HP left.

Of course, the math changes if dragons in your setting get auto-Fear auras, or if there is massive HP and AC inflation.

Dragons can be as powerful as you want them to be in your setting.

They can have Dozens of HP, or Hundreds of HP.

It's the 47 Different Flavors of Dragons concept that rubs me wrong.  There are sooooo many dragons, that if each type had only 10 living specimens; every cave, swamp, forest, mountain, desert, and dungeon in the world would have a dragon there.  There are many other monsters in the monster manuals and Bestiaries.

Quote from: Razor 007;1094548Dragons can be as powerful as you want them to be in your setting.

Agreed, but if dragons are powerful nuisance, that's different than if dragons are city destroyers.

You can have a lot more dragons if they aren't demigods.

But the need for mega-enemies is much greater when you have high level PC superheroes. As my OD&D cuts out at 10th level, I don't need a 400 HP encounter to challenge them.

Personally, that's the disconnect for me when the world's monsters keep tracking to the PC's level.

Quote from: Razor 007;1094548It's the 47 Different Flavors of Dragons concept that rubs me wrong.  There are sooooo many dragons, that if each type had only 10 living specimens; every cave, swamp, forest, mountain, desert, and dungeon in the world would have a dragon there.

To me, that's a feature for the game Dungeons & Dragons where the world is littered with both dungeons and dragons (in how I like to run D&D).

I personally believe the MM is a menu for campaign building. You shouldn't put the entire buffet on your plate.

I'm cool with the 47 flavors, but my campaign won't use more than a dozen and few of those will be unique creatures.

Also, many dragons are restricted by terrain. Unless you go to the frozen part of the campaign world, you won't meet white dragons.

BUT...here's an easy solution. Make a random chart for dragon design. Each dragon is unique and the PCs won't know WTF they're up against unless they do their research beforehand.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1094554Personally, that's the disconnect for me when the world's monsters keep tracking to the PC's level.

Agreed, and in D&D it's really not necessary when planar travel allows the PCs to actively track to worlds that fit their levels.

Dragons are NPCs, straight up. Any monster that isn't is "just a monster".

As to a draon's hunting radius -- in my world, dragons derive sustenance from the hoards of treasure upon which they slumber. No need to reduce these magical wonders to something that requires eating N number of local farm cows to survive. In the lore I've consumed over the years, dragons most frequently appear when angry, slighted, etc., and not simple because they're hungry.

Quote from: Razor 007;1094548Dragons can be as powerful as you want them to be in your setting.

They can have Dozens of HP, or Hundreds of HP.

It's the 47 Different Flavors of Dragons concept that rubs me wrong.  There are sooooo many dragons, that if each type had only 10 living specimens; every cave, swamp, forest, mountain, desert, and dungeon in the world would have a dragon there.  There are many other monsters in the monster manuals and Bestiaries.

Is there something somewhere that says dragons only true-breed?

Quote from: kythri;1094607Is there something somewhere that says dragons only true-breed?

Actually, from 3e on (and maybe before), dragons breed with almost anything and seem to fuck like Kirk on a 5-year mission.

Quote from: Razor 007;1093350Does having dozens and dozens of different Dragons, cheapen Dragons overall?

Yes.

Quality over quantity.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1094609Actually, from 3e on (and maybe before), dragons breed with almost anything and seem to fuck like Kirk on a 5-year mission.

So if we ignore the Punnett square genotype prediction stuffs (and it is a fantasy world), a red could breed with a silver and output a blue.  There's not necessarily any need to maintain populations of multiple dragon types/colors.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1094609Actually, from 3e on (and maybe before), dragons breed with almost anything and seem to fuck like Kirk on a 5-year mission.

I remember inter species Dragon breeding from the Dragonlance novels which would be closer to 1e then 3e.

Quote from: kythri;1094614So if we ignore the Punnett square genotype prediction stuffs (and it is a fantasy world), a red could breed with a silver and output a blue.  There's not necessarily any need to maintain populations of multiple dragon types/colors.

Well, obviously interbreeding the Black Watch and Royal Stewart Dragons is how you get Clan Wallace Dragons.