Quote from: S'mon on February 19, 2024, 11:58:28 AM
@tenbones I looked over Tales from the Forlorn Hope - looks great, especially with 3/6 PCs being Solos! I decided to update the art  https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/11802163/ - only the cute chicks so far 

VERY cool!

Yeah Tales of the Forlorn hope is great fodder for your game. You can mine that for tons of value.

Quote from: tenbones on February 18, 2024, 05:46:22 PM
One of the earliest things in CP2020 (actually I think it was from the original CP1e) - the implied Nomad culture *screams* Mad Max. Its pretty obvious that by CP2020 and the Home of the Brave source book clearly indicates, that the world outside of the major cities and their arcologies are dog-eat-dog An-Cap/Neo-Feudal regions where the only law is that of those with the most organized amount of guns... until the Corps or Government decide to show up for whatever reason... but even then it's not certain.

This is how I would explain it:

Whatever plague/war that caused people to be packed into walled megacities/arcologies, was not quite what people now think... (The world has actually long since recovered)

The immediate area visible around the walled megacity/sprawls is purposely kept in a state of desertification by various means.

The real truth is that the "outlands" are perfectly habitable. No different than today, if not better, as former cities have reverted to nature.

But it is much easier to control and exploit people if they are all kept in one place...

Hence the "Nomads". Most of the extremely violent and psychotic criminals are not actually executed. They are released into the wild...

Predatory Nomad gangs are allowed to exist to make the "outlands" a very dangerous place for people from the city. Rendering the countryside essentially uninhabitable for productive people as an additional method of control.

That is why the Corps, and especially the Government level anything larger than a Mad Max Bartertown/Thunderdome set-up. Especially if they see a Nomad settlement do anything resembling actual agriculture.

Ostensibly this is all done under the notion of "keeping the Nomad menace in check"; but it is more to prevent any one setting up a functional society that they do not control... (Such cleansings are typically followed by more criminal "executions".)

The nomads also tend to get airstriked if they go too far in certain directions in large numbers. (Gotta protect those cherry Gov/Corp 'paradise colonies' up North...)

Quote from: tenbones on February 18, 2024, 05:46:22 PM
But what *has* to happen is goods have to move from one place to another. And that means hauling those goods requires protection, and people with balls to make that drive. I've maintained for years it's more plausible to have "Road Warrior" campaigns in this environment than the actual Road Warrior movies themselves. ...

Keeping with my earlier thoughts; this is done to keep word of how "Horrible" the outlands are fresh in the news cycles. (They could use military cargo planes for of all of it if they really wanted to, but bread and circuses...)

Quote from: tenbones on February 18, 2024, 05:46:22 PM
But that means you need good rules for vehicle combat so you can get your Mad Max on. I hybridized a lot of Road Striker rules from Mekton back in the day. Today? I'd probably do something lighter... maybe. I haven't given it enough thought.

Have you looked at Atomic Highway RPG? A mad max inspired game with much less crunch that is designed to be fast playing.

It is a d6 system, but once one sees the design intent, rules can be replicated to other resolution methods.

Anyone familiar with the LowLife 2090 cyberpunk RPG?

Done by the same guy that did low fantasy gaming; it's an OSRish take on the Cyberpunk/Shadowrun theme...

I'm kinda looking at different options since me and my group kinda bounced off of CPRed.

Quote from: Jaeger on February 24, 2024, 03:55:21 AM
I'm kinda looking at different options since me and my group kinda bounced off of CPRed.

It's sad, I'm absolutely loving it, but I can absolutely understand people bouncing off it. I think the core system is first class, but I'm using a ton of CP:2020 for both gear & setting. I've started running Tales From the Forlorn Hope and it does indeed seem excellent.  We're playing Agency Job tomorrow, and I've just been getting A Hard Road To Go ready to run.

One weakness for me in CPR is the history/politics; CP2020 was naive even for 1990, and I really dislike CPR going for 'alternate timeline'. I've developed my own timeline, game is set in 2064 with the USA still united under the iron fist of President Elizabeth Kress (D), but facing widespread armed rebellion from the Pro-Freedom Resistance/Far Right Extremist Domestic Terrorists. I'm running Kress as a Hillary Clinton/Tulsi Gabbard mash-up (hate one, love one)  and trying to keep the politics at a roughly Empire-vs-Stormcloaks sort of level.

CYBERPUNK: GETTING PAID

The campaign begins  11th February 2064.

US/World Timeline (more at https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/11802141/ )

2050 Elizabeth Kress (D) elected on a "Progress and Stability" manifesto, with a promise to end the Central American War.

2051 CentAm War spreads to South America and transitions into the LatAm Wars.

2053 Rumours that Arasaka Corporation has achieved AGI - Artificial General Intelligence.

2054 Kress re-elected following a Supreme Court judgement regarding claims of vote fraud.

2055 'Domestic Terrorist' insurgencies begin in the MidWest, Rockies, Texas, and parts of the South.

2056 Beginning of the Fourth Corporate War. Covert operations explode into a shooting war as Arasaka and Militech move front line troops into battle. The ensuing conflict involves operations all over the globe, with heavy combat in major cities worldwide.

2057 The 'Last War' and the Night City Nuke. Nuclear exchanges see widespread destruction across the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and the United Kingdom, and Russia. In the Pacific theatre China, the Koreas and Japan sustain the most damage. The US Pacific Fleet takes heavy losses, including three Supercarriers. Apart from Night City and the North Korean strike on San Diego, most nuclear strikes in the USA are confined to Rebel/Domestic Terrorist-held areas, notably Knoxville TN, and the Midwest, including Missouri.

2058 With the United States under Martial Law, Federal elections are cancelled "for the duration of the emergency"

2059-61 End of the 4th Corp War & the Last War. Over three years, pockets of fighting are quelled by the now-nationalised Militech and her allied (or vassal) national armies. In the USA, Militech forces flood the Midwest. The 'Domestic Terrorist Insurgency' transitions into guerilla warfare, the rebels no longer able to hold significant territories against the full might of Militech.

2064 Present Day

Night City Timeline

2044 Construction begins of Coronado City, a new planned city on the US West Coast, roughly midway between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

2047 Assassination of Coronado City founder Richard Night, believed to be by Mob interests. The city council votes to remain Coronado as Night City.

2047-50 Richard Night's Corporate allies take swift revenge on the Mob, rapidly cleansing the new city of Syndicate control, at the cost of expedient alliances with many of the Street gangs that formerly served the Mob. Arasaka Security Corporation is accused of the widespread extra-judicial execution of leading Mafia, Yak, and Triad gangsters. This greatly increases Arasaka's public popularity (and its share value).

2049 Creation of the Richard Night Memorial Park in The Glen.

2051 Following Corporate lobbying, Night City becomes a 'Free City' between the newly created States of Northern and Southern California.

2053 Silverhand Raid on Arasaka Tower. Creation of the Alt AGI.

2057 During the Last War, a nuke centred on Arasaka Tower devastates the Night City CBD. Federal investigation finds that Arasaka self detonated in a false flag op, and the Corporation is banned throughout the United States. Arasaka blames Militech, in a classic example of 'Fake News'.

2064 The United States remains in a State of Emergency under President Kress, currently in her fourth term. Night City plans to hold Mayoral elections this year, the first since the War. There is still dust from the Last War in the upper atmosphere causing brilliant red sunsets, hence Time of the Red.



Europe and the War
Despite EU claims, Europe is not in great shape following the Last War, either, so emigration to the bright lights of the USA remains strong. At least the French anti-missile system over Paris actually worked ...unlike London. Just fortunate the Russian nuclear MIRVs were mostly even less reliable than the British interceptors. Though they didn't all fail - but the Russian systems especially had a high fail rate, Chinese a bit better, North Korean even worse. US offensive systems were not fully deployed, but seemed to work relatively well, as you might expect considering their budget. Defensive were patchy.
In Europe, cities that did sustain Russian nuclear strikes include London, Warsaw and Frankfurt. Russia in return took numerous hits, including Moscow, Kaliningrad (now under Militech control), and St Petersburg.

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 01:01:06 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on February 24, 2024, 03:55:21 AM
I'm kinda looking at different options since me and my group kinda bounced off of CPRed.

It's sad, I'm absolutely loving it, but I can absolutely understand people bouncing off it. I think the core system is first class, but I'm using a ton of CP:2020 for both gear & setting. I've started running Tales From the Forlorn Hope and it does indeed seem excellent.  We're playing Agency Job tomorrow, and I've just been getting A Hard Road To Go ready to run.

One weakness for me in CPR is the history/politics; CP2020 was naive even for 1990, and I really dislike CPR going for 'alternate timeline'. I've developed my own timeline, game is set in 2064 with the USA still united under the iron fist of President Elizabeth Kress (D), but facing widespread armed rebellion from the Pro-Freedom Resistance/Far Right Extremist Domestic Terrorists. I'm running Kress as a Hillary Clinton/Tulsi Gabbard mash-up (hate one, love one)  and trying to keep the politics at a roughly Empire-vs-Stormcloaks sort of level.

Red did get some things right though: getting rid of Arsaka really lets the setting breath, free of cheesy "Kill the Japs" missions at last. Merging Militech with the US govt (ok they did it really badly, but still) was excellent, creating a true Corporate State.  The big nuclear hole in the middle of Night City really says "You're Not in Kansas".

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 01:32:59 PM

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 01:01:06 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on February 24, 2024, 03:55:21 AM
I'm kinda looking at different options since me and my group kinda bounced off of CPRed.

It's sad, I'm absolutely loving it, but I can absolutely understand people bouncing off it. I think the core system is first class, but I'm using a ton of CP:2020 for both gear & setting. I've started running Tales From the Forlorn Hope and it does indeed seem excellent.  We're playing Agency Job tomorrow, and I've just been getting A Hard Road To Go ready to run.

One weakness for me in CPR is the history/politics; CP2020 was naive even for 1990, and I really dislike CPR going for 'alternate timeline'. I've developed my own timeline, game is set in 2064 with the USA still united under the iron fist of President Elizabeth Kress (D), but facing widespread armed rebellion from the Pro-Freedom Resistance/Far Right Extremist Domestic Terrorists. I'm running Kress as a Hillary Clinton/Tulsi Gabbard mash-up (hate one, love one)  and trying to keep the politics at a roughly Empire-vs-Stormcloaks sort of level.

Red did get some things right though: getting rid of Arsaka really lets the setting breath, free of cheesy "Kill the Japs" missions at last.

Yeah, but Arasaka is/was a big part of the setting. Part of the appeal of 2020 and Red is the setting legacy for me. I view Arasaka as another megacorp that happens to be based in Japan and has a predominantly Japanese membership.
What makes Red's update of them palatable to me is the idea that they can be a rarer and more memorable encounter. "Arasaka? I thought they were gone?"

Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 24, 2024, 04:48:00 PM
What makes Red's update of them palatable to me is the idea that they can be a rarer and more memorable encounter. "Arasaka? I thought they were gone?"

Yes, which is something I like a lot. I know when I ran (AD&D set in) Cyberpunk 2020, it was always about fighting Arasaka. And I don't really like the assumption that it's fine to kill people as long as they're wearing a security guard uniform. In running Agency Job, I had Kronos ask the PCs to please  NOT kill the Arasaka Lazarus Security Guards if possible, pointing out that they're just trying to make a living too.

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 01:01:06 PM
It's sad, I'm absolutely loving it, but I can absolutely understand people bouncing off it. I think the core system is first class, but I'm using a ton of CP:2020 for both gear & setting. ....

One of the issues my group and I had was that we felt the exploding d10 mechanic didn't really add anything to the resolution system that a d20, or more statistically something like a d16 would, other than re-rolls at least 20% of the time just to get to the same place.

Admittedly my group is an outlier, as we are system wonks that nitpick relentlessly.

CPRed and the Witcher also suffer from ridiculously long skill lists. (It vexes me.)

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 01:01:06 PM
One weakness for me in CPR is the history/politics; CP2020 was naive even for 1990, and I really dislike CPR going for 'alternate timeline'. I've developed my own timeline, game is set in 2064 with the USA still united under the iron fist of President Elizabeth Kress (D), but facing widespread armed rebellion from the Pro-Freedom Resistance/Far Right Extremist Domestic Terrorists. I'm running Kress as a Hillary Clinton/Tulsi Gabbard mash-up (hate one, love one)  and trying to keep the politics at a roughly Empire-vs-Stormcloaks sort of level.

Oh yeah.

Had some back and forth on this a while back:
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/state-of-the-cyberpunk/150/

Your timeline is just as good as anything else. 'Big collapse' followed by the Government outsourcing local control of certain areas to MegaCorps.

I like that it is also very short and to the point. Long, detailed alt-histories are usually when the would-be game designers start really losing the plot...

Quote from: S'mon on February 24, 2024, 06:33:49 PM

... I know when I ran (AD&D set in) Cyberpunk 2020, it was always about fighting Arasaka. And I don't really like the assumption that it's fine to kill people as long as they're wearing a security guard uniform. In running Agency Job, I had Kronos ask the PCs to please  NOT kill the Arasaka Lazarus Security Guards if possible, pointing out that they're just trying to make a living too.

I still find it odd that CPRed and The Witcher are basically using the same resolution system, but there are enough mechanical differences so that they are not really cross compatible.

I mean, 'come on man! A group of Witcher PC's magically fuck around with some standing stones and find themselves transported into the middle of a Megacorp research facility that was looking into the interesting properties of megalithic slabs.

Or the reverse with a group of runners getting temporarily zorted to the Continent. Who wouldn't want to do a Solo/Witcher duel? Yet you can't do that without hacking the rules discrepancies on your own.

But looking at Cody Pondsmiths latest project, maybe a certain degree of incompatibility was intentional...

Quote from: Jaeger on February 28, 2024, 04:34:31 PM
One of the issues my group and I had was that we felt the exploding d10 mechanic didn't really add anything to the resolution system that a d20, or more statistically something like a d16 would, other than re-rolls at least 20% of the time just to get to the same place.

Admittedly my group is an outlier, as we are system wonks that nitpick relentlessly.

CPRed and the Witcher also suffer from ridiculously long skill lists. (It vexes me.)

I've only been running it online and the character sheet does auto rerolls on a 10. I can see it'd be vexing in person, probably best to roll 2d10 of different colours with one being the wild die. I actually really like the results it gives in play. The 30 point range in a d10 based system would be akin to a 60 point range in D&D.

Agree re skill list, distinguishing eg Conversation from Persuasion isn't easy! Or two separate 'dress sense' skills! Starting with the pregen PCs and then modifying them made it much easier than building a PC from scratch though.

Something my players dearly loved was when the "Run" (i.e. whatever their Fixer set them up with) would scale up and take them to places they never even conceived of going.

Edit: TL/DR - Use the resource books to make the PC's travel to cool unique places. Near Orbit and Deep Space books are *awesome*.

One of those missions turned out stealing a shipment from an secure warehouse while it was in-transit. Simple snatch-n'-grab. Of course this was all a prelude to something far far far more complex (which the PC's had no idea).

I set up in game for months various tid-bits of news on the Scream Sheets. So I'd come up with current events around Night City, as well as national and international headlines. Many were possible lead-ins to potential storyhooks for personal interest, or missions. Others were just red-herrings (which I was fully prepared to flesh out if the PC's decided to look into for whatever reason). But one of the innocuous stories was of a deep-space operation going on around the moon of Triton in the orbit of Neptune. I basically set up this idea that Orbital Air, backed by the ESA, had been working on experimental rocketry and had mission to go to Triton and back. Well the PC's were supposed to steal some shipment that was being held in a private and secure warehouse. The truth was they were being tested.

It was the U.S. government (CIA) that was testing to see if the PC's were good enough to break into the warehouse and get the goods. They approached their Fixer (who had no idea), gave him enough parameters to believe in the job, he passed it on to the PC's. The PC's end up barely succeeding (the casing of the place, and the break-in and extraction took several sessions itself), but the point was upon success, the PC's were surreptitiously confronted by CIA kill teams and made "The Offer they Couldn't Refuse" (note: they COULD have refused, but they'd have to kill the CIA agent(s) and their SpecOps backup - which was entirely possible as the PC's were pretty beefy.) But the offer was something unique - they would be trained to go into orbit and infiltrate Orbital Air operations on the Crystal Palace, meet with a Orbital Air employee defector that was trying to leave (for some unknown reason - but would be revealed during the mission).

This gave me a excuse to use the Near Orbit and Deep Space books from CP2020. Both fantastic resources to do some crazy shit in space - something few CP games ever actually do. Anyhow it took the PC's who were geared to the fucking teeth into deep waters, as most of their high-powered shit didn't work in space. Space is fucking *dangerous* as hell, and the Near Orbit and Deep Space books do an amazing job to prep you to beat the shit out of our PC's while delivering intensely high-stakes gameplay.

Orbital Air was my "bad guys" of choice. I used Arasaka and Militech as neutral but very interested parties in terms of campaign related background. But the adventure took the PC's ****WAY**** out of their comfort zone. It culminated in them going to the moon, where Copernicus colony went "dark" to find their mission to nab the Orbital Air cargo on the Crystal Palace was hijacked by other interested parties (Arasaka) and ended up on the moon... only to find out that the cargo was an alien Queen (yeah... from Aliens. Sue me, this was 1993 and it was edgy as fuck back then). By the time the PC's arrived at Copernicus Crater - the Alien Queen had pretty much installed herself and had a nice little hive going.

The entire adventure took like 3-months of multiple sessions (maybe 2/week, and most of our sessions were 10+hrs.) just to GET to Copernicus Crater. Then the entire game turned into a really intense Aliens game - the look on their faces were priceless. Trapped on the Moon, the only way through the problem was through the Alien queen who had effectively fucked up everything in the complex and was hunting the PC's down. Turned into total survival mode. Was epic as fuck.

What we learned: A properly cybered up PC with .03 Humanity *could* survive ejection into the vacuum of space and make it back into the lunar habitat. He was in very rough shape, but he did survive. Also, never go full-auto with a non-gyro-jet weapon in zero-gravity (the PC's snuck his own weapon on board... he later used that weapon to "move" in zero-G but unfortunately destroyed the section of the habitat he was in, flash-freezing himself to death). Radiation does not give you super-powers. And Alien acid-blood, does indeed suck to get on your space-suit.

I like the idea of a concentric circles approach, where the PCs start out in the local neighbourhood, then the wasteland, graduate to missions in Europe and Latam, eventually out into Space.

Perhaps not what you're looking for, however I always start here:

Goals as GM:

One Shining Moment For Every Player And PC

One Cool Reward For Each PC

One Plot Thread Measurably Advanced

One Surprise

One Seed Planted

One Background Event

One Way The PCs Have Changed The World


Good gaming!

Quote from: SimpleDisorder on February 29, 2024, 01:17:54 PM
Perhaps not what you're looking for, however I always start here:

Goals as GM:

One Shining Moment For Every Player And PC

One Cool Reward For Each PC

One Plot Thread Measurably Advanced

One Surprise

One Seed Planted

One Background Event

One Way The PCs Have Changed The World


Good gaming!

These seem like good things to bear in mind. Running a sandbox I can't ensure all that every session  and I very much see shining moments as things the player creates, at most I give the opportunity.

Quote from: tenbones on February 29, 2024, 09:58:20 AM
But one of the innocuous stories was of a deep-space operation going on around the moon of Triton in the orbit of Neptune.

Given the dystopian/realistic tone I'm going for, I'm pretty sure that in my 2064 world, Elon Musk never reached Mars.    But Near Orbit sounds well worth checking out, thanks!