Just Based on my experience with the Witcher and CP Red quickstart games...


Use the Artesia RPG fumble rule:

A fumble only occurs when you reduce the Stat+Skill modifier total to 0 or less. So a PC has to get rather unlucky, or be using a low skill/Stat combo to regularly fumble.

Get rid of the opposed roll for Melee and brawling combat:

Just give everyone the average roll for the exploding d10: 6. Then just have the attacker roll against a static defense of the appropriate Stat+Skill+6. Speeds up combat by getting rid of most opposed rolls.


FWIW: There is at least one Interlock Fuzion variant out there that uses a d12 instead of the d10 and changes nothing else. (Makes the swinginess go down a bit.)

Not cyberpunk, but Autoduel/Car Wars?

Interstate. Fucking. '76.

More on-topic. Straight human Cyberpunk, or fantasy Shadowrun?

Shadowrun was probably my third RPG after D&D and Call of Cthulhu, so I'm always going to have a soft spot for that, but my taste has significantly moved towards straight human stuff.

Quote from: Jaeger on February 16, 2024, 10:42:53 PM
Just Based on my experience with the Witcher and CP Red quickstart games...


Use the Artesia RPG fumble rule:

A fumble only occurs when you reduce the Stat+Skill modifier total to 0 or less. So a PC has to get rather unlucky, or be using a low skill/Stat combo to regularly fumble.

Get rid of the opposed roll for Melee and brawling combat:

Just give everyone the average roll for the exploding d10: 6. Then just have the attacker roll against a static defense of the appropriate Stat+Skill+6. Speeds up combat by getting rid of most opposed rolls.


FWIW: There is at least one Interlock Fuzion variant out there that uses a d12 instead of the d10 and changes nothing else. (Makes the swinginess go down a bit.)

The CP Red fights I ran in first session, I thought the task resolution worked really well. A 1 is just a -d10 to roll, a 10 a +d10; you can still succeed when rolling a 1 - and Solos have an option to ignore a one. Cheap crappy guns jam on a 1 but just need an Action to clear, which seems fine to me. I remember in the UK army reserve our SA80/L85 service rifle would jam if you looked at it funny, and cheap gun probably implies poor maintenance too.

Gunfights are almost always against a static target number, as only extremely high REF characters can dodge ranged attacks - I'd probably allow someone to hold their Action to use it to dodge an attack. The rarer melee attacks use opposed rolls, which seemed to work great in play.

My criticisms are much more in the non-rule stuff, like every Pregen and every NPC wears a helmet despite how none of the non-Lawman art shows helmets, and it would look completely different and a bit silly - you're in a hot nightclub and everyone wears a helmet? In general statted NPCs & pregen PCs are over armoured, especially compared to their art, and given non-concealable Very Heavy Pistols. It feels like laziness to me, but is easily fixed.  I think no armour or 'leather' jacket, no helmet, and a medium or heavy pistol would be a lot more plausible. Similarly when I ran the Jumpstart adventure first encounter, 4 starting PCs vs 6 heavily armoured and elite-statted ambushers, the PCs were hugely outmatched. Which is fine, this is Cyberpunk, the game is rigged. BUT the scenario blithely assumes the PCs will kill or drive off their ambushers, and goes from there. The actual scenario outcome after a lot of combat rounds was one ambusher badly wounded, one PC killed, one PC badly wounded, one PC lightly wounded, and the three survivor PCs fleeing for their lives. A lot more in-genre than the assumed outcome, but it's notable the writers seemed to have no idea of this. And our pregen PC group was 2 x Solo, 1 Media, 1 Rockerboy, a pretty strong group.

I think there might be some significant rule differences between the Witcher and CPRed here.

I have the QS and core book for The Witcher, but just the QS for CPRed...

Quote from: S'mon on February 17, 2024, 03:13:41 AM
...
The CP Red fights I ran in first session, I thought the task resolution worked really well. A 1 is just a -d10 to roll, a 10 a +d10; you can still succeed when rolling a 1 ...

In the Witcher; Not unless your Stat+Skill are really high.

You roll a 1, then roll a d10 again, and subtract that number from your Stat+Skill total.
If you roll a 1, then a 10, you roll yet again (4) and subtract the 10+4 or 14 from your Stat+Skill total.

Did they lessen the effects of rolling a 1 in CPRed?

Quote from: S'mon on February 17, 2024, 03:13:41 AM
... The rarer melee attacks use opposed rolls, which seemed to work great in play.

If I ran the Witcher again where melee is far more common; I would eliminate the opposed roll because it has no mechanical benefit for the defender.

If the Attacker is successful in his attack, and rolls a crit; He does increased damage to the Defender, with the possibility of removing them from the fight outright.

If the Defender successfully defends, and rolls a crit: He gets nothing. Absolutely no additional benefit whatsoever. While still being subject to the results of the fumble roll tables...

Do the full rules for CPRed not do this for melee?

Quote from: S'mon on February 17, 2024, 03:13:41 AM
Similarly when I ran the Jumpstart adventure first encounter, 4 starting PCs vs 6 heavily armoured and elite-statted ambushers, the PCs were hugely outmatched. Which is fine, this is Cyberpunk, the game is rigged. BUT the scenario blithely assumes the PCs will kill or drive off their ambushers, and goes from there. The actual scenario outcome after a lot of combat rounds was one ambusher badly wounded, one PC killed, one PC badly wounded, one PC lightly wounded, and the three survivor PCs fleeing for their lives. A lot more in-genre than the assumed outcome, but it's notable the writers seemed to have no idea of this. And our pregen PC group was 2 x Solo, 1 Media, 1 Rockerboy, a pretty strong group.

IMHO; Their into adventures seem intentionally meant to be a bit meat grindery...

Similar result when I ran the CPRed Jumpstart adventure as well: One killed outright, one down but made their death save. Only two left standing, but really messed up.

Same for The Witcher QS adventure: Only two out of 4 PC's lived. And that only happened because they got a series of good rolls that turned the tide of the ambush that they walked into. Serious die swings in their favor.

This is not nessiccarially a bad thing. It drives home the lethality of the systems; which requires a different mindset from the players than some other RPG's.

Quote from: S'mon on February 15, 2024, 06:56:09 PMMy players have rolled their Lifepaths, but nothing much grabbed me yet. I should look at them again and do some editing.

I've gotten a ton of useful stuff mining lifepaths over the years.  Sure, you get the obvious friends and enemies, but be sure to chart out the timelines.  You'll almost always end up with spots where the PCs were in the same place at the same time, maybe on opposite sides even.

Quote from: Jaeger on February 17, 2024, 06:32:29 PM
If the Attacker is successful in his attack, and rolls a crit; He does increased damage to the Defender, with the possibility of removing them from the fight outright.

If the Defender successfully defends, and rolls a crit: He gets nothing. Absolutely no additional benefit whatsoever. While still being subject to the results of the fumble roll tables...

Do the full rules for CPRed not do this for melee?

AFAICS there is no extra damage for rolling a crit, and nothing beyond 'you fail' for rolling low to dodge or parry.

Quote from: Jaeger on February 17, 2024, 06:32:29 PM
If I ran the Witcher again where melee is far more common; I would eliminate the opposed roll because it has no mechanical benefit for the defender.

Yeah, I think an opposed roll is great for a dramatic "Shit Just Got Real!" moment, but peferably not as a routine thing in combat. So in Witcher melee attacks should probably be roll vs static DV. If missile attacks are rare then make THEM be the opposed checks. Like I remember watching Xena: Warrior Princess, tons of routine beat-up-the-mooks melee, but if someone aimed a crossbow at her it was a BIG DEAL.

Quote from: Almost_Useless on February 17, 2024, 06:55:55 PM
I've gotten a ton of useful stuff mining lifepaths over the years.  Sure, you get the obvious friends and enemies, but be sure to chart out the timelines.  You'll almost always end up with spots where the PCs were in the same place at the same time, maybe on opposite sides even.

I'm not seeing this yet. OTOH we've been making linkages between PCs ok - "OK, you served with Mover in the LatAm War..." "Oh yeah! Great guy! We had a great time!" 

I was thinking about letting players control an allied NPC, who could also be played probably temporarily if the player's PC died. Maybe a Friend of the PC? Players wouldn't follow their lives when they're away from the group, but could control them in combat. We had some players drop out after session 1 (cold recruit off Roll20 usually has that) so I have their ex-PCs available too. I don't want to harm immersion though. 

Started another battle, using text chat and Roll20. The Dirty Cops tracked the PCs down to Nurse Sandra's apartment, but were warned by another nurse, Brandi, just in time - she was still in the hallway when the Dirty Cops arrived and grabbed her. The Cops initiated breaching tactics with a flashbang grenade followed by rifles on three-round-burst, but they were swiftly ambushed from behind from another apartment by one of their erstwhile colleagues, Lawman 'Bronze' Johnson, who unloaded on them full auto (10 round long burst) with his autorifle using my house rules adapted from Twilight 2000. He blew away two of them, and was lucky not to kill Brandi, which would have mortified him as he'd been having sex with her a couple minutes ago  - he was the one sent Brandi to warn the others.



Overall I'm loving the visceral combat system, though it's certainly not super fast. The potential deadliness of every roll makes the crunch seem worthwhile. I finally rolled my first critical injury, a cop took a punctured lung from a pistol bullet penetrating his Kevlar, about a second before being blown away by a random rifle round from Johnson's full auto burst down the hallway. 

After just over 1 combat round (3 seconds) one PC is lightly wounded from glancing hits to his Armorjack, while three Dirty Cops are dead or dying in the hallway and the remaining two are reconsidering their life choices.

Quote from: Brad on February 16, 2024, 08:29:31 PM
I can also see tenbones posted, and he's like the cyberpunk guru, but I will say this.. Autoduel/Car Wars is probably the more realistic inevitability. As someone who watched Road Warrior five hundred times as a kid, I certainly hope so.

One of the earliest things in CP2020 (actually I think it was from the original CP1e) - the implied Nomad culture *screams* Mad Max. Its pretty obvious that by CP2020 and the Home of the Brave source book clearly indicates, that the world outside of the major cities and their arcologies are dog-eat-dog An-Cap/Neo-Feudal regions where the only law is that of those with the most organized amount of guns... until the Corps or Government decide to show up for whatever reason... but even then it's not certain.

But what *has* to happen is goods have to move from one place to another. And that means hauling those goods requires protection, and people with balls to make that drive. I've maintained for years it's more plausible to have "Road Warrior" campaigns in this environment than the actual Road Warrior movies themselves. Mainly because the reasons why people live in the Wasteland is voluntary (for the most part), and not quite as bad as Mad Max flicks which implies the world is basically going tits-up, while chronically trying to give you hope it might not, to perpetuate the legends of Max.

In any case, since I sandbox exclusiverly, having your Edgerunners "lay low" and book out of town is a *superb* chance to introduce them to an entirely different corner of the Sandbox where different rules apply, scarcity is king, and loyalty matters (mostly) among the Nomads you'll end up running with. Politics are different and the lens by which you engage with the Cyberpunk world takes on new dynamics. Definitely a palate cleanser.

But that means you need good rules for vehicle combat so you can get your Mad Max on. I hybridized a lot of Road Striker rules from Mekton back in the day. Today? I'd probably do something lighter... maybe. I haven't given it enough thought.

I'm not a fan of the CPR rules. I understand *some* of the design decisions Cody made. I even like some them a lot (the Role cleanup is awesome). I'm not a fan *AT ALL* of removing the gear porn. CP is *about* crass commercialism and style over substance, but from a gaming perspective players like the style to come with a lot of substance to justify sporting it or going after it.

Wisdom00's Datafortress rules are *better*. But I think there is a lot of room for streamlining.

Quote from: tenbones on February 18, 2024, 05:46:22 PM
I'm not a fan of the CPR rules. I understand *some* of the design decisions Cody made. I even like some them a lot (the Role cleanup is awesome). I'm not a fan *AT ALL* of removing the gear porn. CP is *about* crass commercialism and style over substance, but from a gaming perspective players like the style to come with a lot of substance to justify sporting it or going after it.

Have you read Black Chrome? I've only flipped through it at the FLGS, but it seems to have more gear porn.

@tenbones I looked over Tales from the Forlorn Hope - looks great, especially with 3/6 PCs being Solos! I decided to update the art  https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/11802163/ - only the cute chicks so far 

Quote from: tenbones on February 18, 2024, 05:46:22 PM

Quote from: Brad on February 16, 2024, 08:29:31 PM
I can also see tenbones posted, and he's like the cyberpunk guru, but I will say this.. Autoduel/Car Wars is probably the more realistic inevitability. As someone who watched Road Warrior five hundred times as a kid, I certainly hope so.

One of the earliest things in CP2020 (actually I think it was from the original CP1e) - the implied Nomad culture *screams* Mad Max. Its pretty obvious that by CP2020 and the Home of the Brave source book clearly indicates, that the world outside of the major cities and their arcologies are dog-eat-dog An-Cap/Neo-Feudal regions where the only law is that of those with the most organized amount of guns... until the Corps or Government decide to show up for whatever reason... but even then it's not certain.

But what *has* to happen is goods have to move from one place to another. And that means hauling those goods requires protection, and people with balls to make that drive. I've maintained for years it's more plausible to have "Road Warrior" campaigns in this environment than the actual Road Warrior movies themselves. Mainly because the reasons why people live in the Wasteland is voluntary (for the most part), and not quite as bad as Mad Max flicks which implies the world is basically going tits-up, while chronically trying to give you hope it might not, to perpetuate the legends of Max.

In any case, since I sandbox exclusiverly, having your Edgerunners "lay low" and book out of town is a *superb* chance to introduce them to an entirely different corner of the Sandbox where different rules apply, scarcity is king, and loyalty matters (mostly) among the Nomads you'll end up running with. Politics are different and the lens by which you engage with the Cyberpunk world takes on new dynamics. Definitely a palate cleanser.

But that means you need good rules for vehicle combat so you can get your Mad Max on. I hybridized a lot of Road Striker rules from Mekton back in the day. Today? I'd probably do something lighter... maybe. I haven't given it enough thought.

I'm not a fan of the CPR rules. I understand *some* of the design decisions Cody made. I even like some them a lot (the Role cleanup is awesome). I'm not a fan *AT ALL* of removing the gear porn. CP is *about* crass commercialism and style over substance, but from a gaming perspective players like the style to come with a lot of substance to justify sporting it or going after it.

Wisdom00's Datafortress rules are *better*. But I think there is a lot of room for streamlining.

Great stuff again, fits my view of 'Flyover Country' though I'll be adding more Patriot Rsistance/Domestic Terrorists 
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/5b90baf2-bc48-4b5b-901a-55fdbe8b2c58
I settled on 2064 for my starting year and to avoid detailing pre-2050 as that gives me 26 years before the real world catches up... timeline at https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/11802141/history-lesson

Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 18, 2024, 06:24:12 PM
Have you read Black Chrome? I've only flipped through it at the FLGS, but it seems to have more gear porn.

I know about it, I haven't purchased it. It's on the list (albeit not high as I'm not currently running CP, but it'll happen).