Let's say you had some kind of time-travelling hitman at your service, that would go back in time and take out any single game designer just before he started his career: who would you take out?
What do you think the effect would be?
RPGPundit
If I had such a person at my service, I wouldn't waste their talent on a mere game designer.
A game designer? Now you're creeping me out...
:pundit: "take out any single game designer just before he started his career..." :guns:
:viking: "What the fuck?"
:pundit: "I said, if you could -"
:viking: "No. Now listen carefully." :stick:
ack!
if all he could do was go back in time to kill game designers... I'd break his power before anybody else found out...
Mark Rein*Hagen.
We'd have a lot less emos running about fouling the air with their putrescent need to be put out of my misery.
Gary Gygax, kill this whole thing before it started.
Pundit, this thread is Really. Fucking. Creepy.
Ron Edwards, obviously.
That's what you want someone to say, right?
EFFECT: No indie revolution! No narrativism! Pure golden age roleplaying for all! An RPG in every household!
And he calls Uncle Ron crazy....
Regards,
David R
Well, for "take out" read "make sure they never get involved in the RPG hobby".
Hey, if the Swine are allowed to do it over on RPG.net talking about how wonderful it would be if they could "alter gaming history" to make it so that Runequest and not D&D was the defining game or shit like that, why isn't it fair game here? They're basically engaging in revenge porn against Gary Gygax.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditLet's say you had some kind of time-travelling hitman at your service, that would go back in time and take out any single game designer just before he started his career: who would you take out?
Well, shucks, Pundy, you qualify as a target now, don't you?
The effect: This thread would never have been posted.
!i!
I suppose this is a bad time to admit I come from an alternate future in which Ron Edwards was elected president? Yeah. It's pretty bleak.
But I didn't have to kill anyone. All I had to do was point out the extreme mediocrity of the entire forgie movement. Looks like things are straightening out now...!
Unfortunately, now I am being hunted by a terminator robot.
Ron Edwards?
Is that like if Ron Paul and John Edwards had a butt-baby?
Call me ignorant, I had to go look him up...
LOLZ. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Edwards)
Someone decided somewhere that someone else might need this information.
I followed the indie-rpg link from that page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_role-playing_game) and laughed even harder.
Now I know why I didn't know who he was and I don't feel bad about it.
Quote from: BlackhandMark Rein*Hagen.
We'd have a lot less emos running about fouling the air with their putrescent need to be put out of my misery.
Now you're talking.
But wait ...there's the William Proxmire/Robert Heinlein version of this.
You don't "KILL" them - you instead make them successful at something . SO, instead of writing and creating the Vampire/World of Darkness silliness.....Rein*Hagen becomes the producer and star of children's programs.
THe kind with walking and talking big animals and lots of balloons a colorful rainbows.
Would've cut the Emo /Goth crowd in half for the past 20 years - and no one has to be mudered.
- Ed C.
If I could travel back in time, I'd hand Gygax a modern game with streamlined, unfied mechanics and wish him luck.
How's that as a non-creepy response?
Seanchai
Quote from: SeanchaiIf I could travel back in time, I'd hand Gygax a modern game with streamlined, unfied mechanics and wish him luck.
How dare you imply that Gygax did not create the perfect game. Don't you know that Gygax is untouchable...wait...not in the Hindu caste sense...hold on..you're confusing me...Gygax good...good... good... Gygax.
Regards,
David R
Ironically, I was recently complaining about my local ongoing annual role-playing event.
Anyway, a guy told me he was a time-travelling hitman, and offered to go back in time and 'take them out' for me.
It turned out to be a con.
Quote from: RPGPunditLet's say you had some kind of time-travelling hitman at your service, that would go back in time and take out any single game designer just before he started his career: who would you take out?
What do you think the effect would be?
RPGPundit
How about this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigeru_Miyamoto) or this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toru_Iwatani). Think about what sort of world we would live in now. :)
Pete
Quote from: pspahnHow about this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigeru_Miyamoto) or this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toru_Iwatani). Think about what sort of world we would live in now. :)
Pete
You know, I don't want them killed, but I wouldn't mind a world where video games were less prevalent.
Quote from: KoltarYou don't "KILL" them - you instead make them successful at something . SO, instead of writing and creating the Vampire/World of Darkness silliness.....Rein*Hagen becomes the producer and star of children's programs.
THe kind with walking and talking big animals and lots of balloons a colorful rainbows.
The idea of Rein·Hagen living out his life as the actor from Blues Clues strikes me as endlessly amusing, and would no doubt be, for him, a fate worse than death. I love it.
RPGPundit
Quote from: jeff37923You know, I don't want them killed, but I wouldn't mind a world where video games were less prevalent.
If you want less stupid videogames, turn your "attention" to the guys who developed the FPS genre, and not to a creative genius like Miyamoto.
I wouldn't have anyone whacked, but I would slip a copy of True20 under Mr. Gygax and Arneson's door.
I'd also tell a young and enthusiastic artist with the surname Siembieda that he should stop fucking about with houseruled D&D and write a bespoke system for all those cool ideas he'll have. And to enrol in business school while he's at it.
I'd pat a young Rein*Hagen on the head and tell him that many, many people will end up using his horror games for Highlander-style jinks, no matter how much Anne Rice fanfic he slips between the covers.
Finally, I'd tell a little boy named Mearls that he's destined to face obscene amounts of pouting nerd-rage in thirty years time, and had best develop a thick skin fast.
I'd also save Sarah Connor and marry her, of course. :)
QuoteI'd also tell a young and enthusiastic artist with the surname Siembieda that he should stop fucking about with houseruled D&D and write a bespoke system for all those cool ideas he'll have. And to enrol in business school while he's at it.
You might also want to hand him one of these. (http://www.amazon.com/Desktop-Publishing-Design-Dummies-Parker/dp/1568842341) :cool:
Quote from: blakkieYou might also want to hand him one of these. (http://www.amazon.com/Desktop-Publishing-Design-Dummies-Parker/dp/1568842341) :cool:
That too. :D
Quote from: David RDon't you know that Gygax is untouchable...
Oh, from what I've seen in terms of what they do to defend him and his work, I'm pretty certain some his more strident followers do touch him. As I understand it, the process first involves kneeling and fumbling with his zipper.
Seanchai
Quote from: DrewI'd also save Sarah Connor and marry her, of course. :)
Sure, you think so until the Terminator shows up and kills you, leaving Sarah to raise the love child that she had with you alone.
:p
Quote from: John MorrowSure, you think so until the Terminator shows up and kills you, leaving Sarah to raise the love child that she had with you alone.
:p
It'd be worth it. ;)
Quote from: JongWKIf you want less stupid videogames, turn your "attention" to the guys who developed the FPS genre, and not to a creative genius like Miyamoto.
Its not the quality of the video game that I'd like to see improved. Its the popularity of the tabletop RPG hobby that I'd like to see increased.
Quote from: JongWKIf you want less stupid videogames, turn your "attention" to the guys who developed the FPS genre, and not to a creative genius like Miyamoto.
You leave John Carmack out of this! The world would be a smaller, sadder place without a little FPS action.
:kickback: :flameon2:
Although I'm all for John Romero being fair game for a temporal cleaner. :p
Quote from: RPGPunditLet's say you had some kind of time-travelling hitman at your service, that would go back in time and take out any single game designer just before he started his career: who would you take out?
What do you think the effect would be?
RPGPundi
I, like quite a few others, think this thread is well over on the creepy side, but then I also found the little "this machine kills fascists" slogan creepy as hell, as if roleplaying games were anything you would have to start killing over.
Quote from: RPGPunditWell, for "take out" read "make sure they never get involved in the RPG hobby".
...and instead of a time traveling "hitman" who does "hits", read who does "guidance counseling."
With that caviat, I'd have the hitman guidence council William Shatner.
Quote from: DrewI'd pat a young Rein*Hagen on the head and tell him that many, many people will end up using his horror games for Highlander-style jinks, no matter how much Anne Rice fanfic he slips between the covers.
What's the problem with playing Vampire as if it were Highlander? It sure rocks!! :pundit:
Quote from: SaphimI, like quite a few others, think this thread is well over on the creepy side, but then I also found the little "this machine kills fascists" slogan creepy as hell, as if roleplaying games were anything you would have to start killing over.
It is war I tell ya, WAR!!! :haw:
Quote from: Saphim...I also found the little "this machine kills fascists" slogan creepy as hell, as if roleplaying games were anything you would have to start killing over.
It's really the self-congratulatory quality that makes it creepy. Consider the source:
(http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/ross/archives/This_Machine_Kills_Fascists.gif)
Our great leader stands on the shoulders of giants.
!i!
Quote from: ClaudiusWhat's the problem with playing Vampire as if it were Highlander? It sure rocks!! :pundit:
I have no problem with people using the WoD to emulate Highlander. Or Blade. Or the Matrix, for that matter
I just think the gaming world at large might have been saved some embarassing posturing by the 'tragically hip' fanboys if MRH had been aware of what many people were actually going to use it for. The gothic punk idea was cool, as was the theme of personal horror, but the constantly implied condescension towards action-orientated play always struck me as intensely juvenile. A bit like those teenagers who after reading a bit of Proust suddenly think they know it all, and are determined to spoil the non-Proustian literary enjoyment of everyone else.
This thread indicates that two things are happening simultaneously:
1) Traffic to the RPGsite is dropping and Pundit needs an interboard flame war to bring it back up.
2) Pundit has fallen out of his "FtA PR" mode and decided to go back to his old ways.
Ah well. Nothing lasts forever.
Quote from: SaphimI also found the little "this machine kills fascists" slogan creepy as hell, as if roleplaying games were anything you would have to start killing over.
Do you know the reference for that line?
It was what Woody Guthrie wrote on his guitar. In other words, freely speaking out is the machine that "kills" fascists.
My moderators have that line because it ties to the core concept of the moderation of this site: that moderators here are people entrusted to ensure the protection of free speech, rather then to become the forces that crush free speech.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaIt's really the self-congratulatory quality that makes it creepy. Consider the source:
(http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/ross/archives/This_Machine_Kills_Fascists.gif)
Our great leader stands on the shoulders of giants.
!i!
Indeed I do stand on the shoulders of giants. Damn grateful to them too.
And yes, its self-congratulatory and with good reason. When I started this forum, the Swine and the RPG.net Modclique all claimed that either the forum would never succeed or I would become a tyrant. The forum has succeeded, I've PROVEN that they were LYING in their claims that you need to have oppressive moderation to have a successful forum, and I have not become a tyrant.
I will gleefully and self-righteously rub it in all their faces at every opportunity.
RPGPundit
Quote from: James McMurrayThis thread indicates that two things are happening simultaneously:
1) Traffic to the RPGsite is dropping and Pundit needs an interboard flame war to bring it back up.
As far as I can tell, traffic is not dropping at all.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditIndeed I do stand on the shoulders of giants. Damn grateful to them too.
To be clear, I'm quite fond of Woody Guthrie, I appreciate his message of "This machine kills fascists", and I appreciate that you and the mods hereabouts use it appropriately in the spirit it was originally intended. Cheers to you. However, I think your opinion of your role in the larger scheme of things is inflated.
Back on topic, though, I think James is onto something with regard to you drumming up your little imaginary war from time to time. Things get too friendly and tame, you trot out your needless hate fantasies again. You're not going to make me bring up
Nobilis over in the "Scion or Amber? Amber or Scion?" thread, are you?*
!i!
[*Edit: Ha! Looks like ancientgamer already did just that.]
Quote from: RPGPunditAs far as I can tell, traffic is not dropping at all.
RPGPundit
Ah, sorry. I assumed this was one of your transparent attempts at stirring shit up to make the place look important. I'd forgotten that sometimes you dance around drooling with your thumb up your butt for no reason at all.
Carry on then! :)
Yes, the thread could easily have been about going back in time and changing the gaming landscape without any mention of killing anybody. The killing part is just excessive self-aggrandizement and hype and was really not necessary. Makes the thread spend over half the time talking about itself rather than the subject from the get-go, which is not good.
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaTo be clear, I'm quite fond of Woody Guthrie, I appreciate his message of "This machine kills fascists", and I appreciate that you and the mods hereabouts use it appropriately in the spirit it was originally intended. Cheers to you. However, I think your opinion of your role in the larger scheme of things is inflated.
Yeah but if there was truth in adverstising he'd use "Hickory, Dickory, Dock...". (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Dice_Clay) ;)
Quote from: RPGPunditLet's say you had some kind of time-travelling hitman at your service, that would go back in time and take out any single game designer just before he started his career: who would you take out?
That guy who wrote FtA!
Quote from: RPGPunditWhat do you think the effect would be?
I really don't know. Since the guy who gave me the idea was the target.
We need some time travel experts ASAP to determine what happens after that.
On a more serious note, can you see why, no matter if a well-respected dude like Levi Kornelsen vouch for your face-to-face behavior, it is clear you have serious issues?
Quote from: Malleus Arianorum...and instead of a time traveling "hitman" who does "hits", read who does "guidance counseling."
With that caviat, I'd have the hitman guidence council William Shatner.
NO!!!
As much As I grew to dislike Shatner over the years , then find him pathetic - he redeemed himself with the character and role of Denny Crane. (!!)
He sorta finally "got it" .
"Boston Legal" is one of the few non-sci-Fi shows that I enjoy watching. Also one of the few that can do a political topic - and make
BOTH sides seem a little ridiculous. (which is pretty a darn good trick writing-wise)
- Ed C.
The guidance would be to go straight to comedy. He was pretty funny in Miss Congeniality as the beauty pageant host. :)
He was pretty funny as The Big Giant Head on Third Rock from the Sun as well.
I wouldn't, whatever I took out would likely be somebody's much loved game.
I tend to find that I can deal with games I don't like by not playing them. I recommend it generally.
Quote from: James McMurrayHe was pretty funny as The Big Giant Head on Third Rock from the Sun as well.
Great Cameo scenes in
"Dodgeball!" as well.
- Ed C.
Pffft. Send him back in time to kill?! Screw that! I'd send him back in time to buy me stuff.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Pffft. Send him back in time to kill?! Screw that! I'd send him back in time to buy me stuff.
You win!
Again! :hatsoff:
I'd send someone back in time to tell TSR to make up their fucking minds as to what system they were going to use for Gamma World 4th, so that we wound up with sometihng that didn't feel like two incomplete and incompatible games mashed together.
Quote from: Saphim... I also found the little "this machine kills fascists" slogan creepy as hell...
I'm not fond of it, either.
On the other hand, I find the idea of speculating on "What If Designer X Never Got Into
The Hobby" an interesting one, and hope we can just do that.
Quote from: blakkieYou win!
Again! :hatsoff:
Thanks, but it's just common sense.
If only 'common sense' would do a better job living up to it's name the world would be a much better place. Thanks for doing your part to help. :cool:
Quote from: RPGPunditDo you know the reference for that line?
It was what Woody Guthrie wrote on his guitar. In other words, freely speaking out is the machine that "kills" fascists.
My moderators have that line because it ties to the core concept of the moderation of this site: that moderators here are people entrusted to ensure the protection of free speech, rather then to become the forces that crush free speech.
Oh, I know. The slogan was on the guitar of a guy who spoke high and mighty and when WWII hit the world he chickened out and washed dishes instead of fighting. A real giant.
And for the protection of free speech... dude this is a rpg site, not a political discussion. There are no high stakes and no "forces of evil on the horizon" threatening to "crush" free speech with their evil indie ideology.
Quote from: KoltarNO!!!
Too late
mon ami! My temporal hitman has already excised
The Shatner Roleplaying Experience(tm) from your earth human spacetime.
Your base are belong to us!!!
PS.
ALL
I suppose the thread title is more of a manifestation of the over the top Pundit persona.
I have no idea whom I should remove from RPG history either. Maybe I would advise the whole failed novellist generation to go write a decent novel instead of trying to sell their stuff for RPG supplements. Or Skip Williams, the Dragon's Sage -- the entire idea of the letter of the the rules being an ultimate authority for the pettiest questions doesn't resonate with me. But I dunno, that's still not enough righteous indignation to send out a hit squad. So, Hitler it is.
How about Adam?
Quote from: MelanMaybe I would advise the whole failed novellist generation to go write a decent novel instead of trying to sell their stuff for RPG supplements.
I think there would be no hope for RA Salvatore.
I´d try to prevent Ulrich Kiesow from producing anyhing after the Abenteuer Ausbau-Box.
Quote from: RPGPunditIt was what Woody Guthrie wrote on his guitar. In other words, freely speaking out is the machine that "kills" fascists.
My moderators have that line because it ties to the core concept of the moderation of this site: that moderators here are people entrusted to ensure the protection of free speech, rather then to become the forces that crush free speech.
RPGPundit
The funny thing about that slogan is that "communists" (far left) are just as capable of suppressing or crushing free speech as much as "fascists" (far right). Either sides of the political spectrum can be just as totalitarian as the other. People are often blinded by the, "my side wouldn't and couldn't" fallacy. Interesting.
Quote from: SaphimOh, I know. The slogan was on the guitar of a guy who spoke high and mighty and when WWII hit the world he chickened out and washed dishes instead of fighting. A real giant.
I think "chickened out" is a bit harsh. He enlisted in the Merchant Marines and was later drafted into the US Army. I dunno but giving a rifle to a folk singer isn't necesarily a win-win situation...
QuoteOh, I know. The slogan was on the guitar of a guy who spoke high and mighty and when WWII hit the world he chickened out and washed dishes instead of fighting. A real giant.
Methinks you have a seriously inadequate understanding of the concepts of metaphor and non-violent protest.
QuoteI dunno but giving a rifle to a folk singer isn't necesarily a win-win situation...
Stops 'em singing as much.
Quote from: CallousI think "chickened out" is a bit harsh. He enlisted in the Merchant Marines and was later drafted into the US Army. I dunno but giving a rifle to a folk singer isn't necesarily a win-win situation...
Futurama has totally stained my mental image associated with 'folk singer'. :o
And yeah, the Merchant Marines weren't exactly hand-to-hand fighting in the trenches but if he was posted on a ship in the North Atlantic (I don't know details of his service record, just saying "if") he wasn't exactly out of harms way.
Quote from: StumpydaveStops 'em singing as much.
Take his gun away then send him into combat if you really want him to stop singing.
Quote from: blakkieFuturama has totally stained my mental image associated with 'folk singer'. :o
I swear that I'd buy a "Cylon and Garfunkel" album if it was possible.
RPGPundit
Quote from: J ArcaneMethinks you have a seriously inadequate understanding of the concepts of metaphor and non-violent protest.
Methinks you have a seriously inadequate understanding of the concept "war".
Look, this here ain't one, this is some ridiculously bloated discussion about different playstyles in which some "representatives" of the other side have made bad PR moves and now pundi has gone on some kind of "killing spree".
This is something you can handle without violence, you can secretly laugh at pundi, try to discuss with him and his cronies, whatever.
Now, war on the other hand, admittedly has quite a few definitions, but it basically boils down to countries engaging in violent conflict and other people dying. You can't stop a war with non-violent protest, no matter what you write onto your guitar and what kind of stuff you sing.
Admittedly not everyone is cut for war, but first making pretentious statements about what your important art does and then making your friend lobby for you to be a dishwasher instead of someone who actually does something in the war doesn't make you a giant.
1) You're response still fails to address the point.
2) You've already been pointed out to be largely wrong in this anyway
3) You're an ignorant cockwrapping.
Quote from: J Arcane1) You're response still fails to address the point.
2) You've already been pointed out to be largely wrong in this anyway
3) You're an ignorant cockwrapping.
Awwww, sweet. Snark... and such a cute little one at that.
Anyway, so, where have I been wrong? There are no fascists of any kind to kill, not with words, nor with guns. The indie crowd does not plan to smolder free speech and take over the gaming world while pundi himself speaks of time travelling hitmen and a "war" against the swine, which in itself is a not so nice metaphor and certainly casts a rather strange hue on "this machine kills fascists". I suggest you try to get your arguement straight, wash your mouth and the come back.
So what if some people are cowardly. I sure am. News at eleven. :rolleyes:
Quote from: MelanSo what if some people are cowardly. I sure am. News at eleven. :rolleyes:
Being cowardly I can understand. Being cowardly after talking big on the other hand I despise.
Quote from: BalbinusI wouldn't, whatever I took out would likely be somebody's much loved game.
I tend to find that I can deal with games I don't like by not playing them. I recommend it generally.
Balbinus speaks the ultimate truth. Any designer disappeared in any way empoverishes the hobby. If a guy makes a game I dislike, I won't play it. Also, wishing things had been any other way than the way they went is ridiculous.
(http://www.viruscomix.com/obersalzberg.jpg)
Beautiful. That was great.
Hehe, the comic is awesome. What's the source?
Quote from: ImperatorBalbinus speaks the ultimate truth. Any designer disappeared in any way empoverishes the hobby. If a guy makes a game I dislike, I won't play it. Also, wishing things had been any other way than the way they went is ridiculous.
I find Balbinus's extremely logical and decent words unsettling. Is he some kind of cosmic being desperately trying to set us squabbling apes on the road to enlightenment?;)
I hope so.
Quote from: RPGPunditLet's say you had some kind of time-travelling hitman at your service, that would go back in time and take out any single game designer just before he started his career: who would you take out?
RPGPundit
Seeing as this is just a Gedanken experiment, purely a fantasy, why deny yourself the pleasure of killing the offending designer yourself? Who needs an extra hitman character? Just imagine yourself armed with a gun or rocket launcher.
Putting an imaginary bullet through Rein. Hagen's brain up close and personal sure would be something enjoyable. Even if it is an impotent fantasy.
But then I'd imagine that some other person might come along to replace what he did in this past. Someone even worse perhaps......:(
Quote from: SaphimHehe, the comic is awesome. What's the source?
http://www.viruscomix.com