This place has drifted in a decidedly 'angry, authoritarian boot licker' direction over the last year or two. It's like a constant stream of loathing for 'SJW's' and cackling delight every time someone gets thrown in hand cuffs and subjected to brutal deprivation by a person in a uniform.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1054478Fair point, but they didn't have the proper paperwork, so it appears they were treated in a manner that seems consistent with the organization's guidelines.

That's not actually clear at this point. We know they were here to attend a meeting. We know that they come from countries that don't require visas to attend business meetings unless they are being paid for the meeting. From the facts available to me, I haven't seen it reported if they were or were not going to be paid. There simply isn't enough information to know what happened here. Maybe the artists screwed up. Maybe WotC screwed up. Maybe ICE screwed up.  All of these seem entirely plausible, so I don't know why everyone is in such a hurry to make up their mind.

As one of the artists in this case said, "Please don't point fingers. It's a very complicated situation and we are figuring out what exactly went wrong and why."

Quote from: Larsdangly;1054512This place has drifted in a decidedly 'angry, authoritarian boot licker' direction over the last year or two. It's like a constant stream of loathing for 'SJW's' and cackling delight every time someone gets thrown in hand cuffs and subjected to brutal deprivation by a person in a uniform.

Yes because this place is worse than ever. Go to rpg.net why don't you. Where they was serious talk of bann2ong users who were pro-republican. Let me guess though it's ok though because your a dan of that forum.  Even more how dare posters have a mind of their iwn and not ne mondless sheep who follow the rest of the herd.

To the op i don't think they should have been detained imo. Wotc though is at fault in that they should have made sure the artist paperwork to enter the country was in order.

From what I understand, business meetings without compensation are fine, and it can fall into a grey area easily if I understand correctly. ICE can have issues with grey areas, ran into that when coming back with my family and Mother-in-Law from Malaysia earlier this year.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1054478Fair point, but they didn't have the proper paperwork,

See my reply in post #12.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1054478so it appears they were treated in a manner that seems consistent with the organization's guidelines.

Guidelines that were changed in relations to what done a few months ago for those denied entry on the basis of doing work on a business related visa. Therein lies the issue.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1054512This place has drifted in a decidedly 'angry, authoritarian boot licker' direction over the last year or two. It's like a constant stream of loathing for 'SJW's' and cackling delight every time someone gets thrown in hand cuffs and subjected to brutal deprivation by a person in a uniform.

"brutal deprivation", give me a break. They were detained for 11 hours in a place with no beds. That's every airline commuter's situation when a plane is delayed. It's not like they were sent to the gulag and shot in the head.

I help run an animation convention, and we manage to consult with attorneys to make sure that the animation industry professionals from other countries we're paying to attend as guests and speakers enter with the proper Visas. That WotC failed to do so, or did so and got bad advice, is on them. As a company, making sure that Visas for people you're bringing in are in order is not a concern that materialized in 2016 - it's been a necessary concern and expense as long as I've been in the business.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1054532That's every airline commuter's situation when a plane is delayed.

In handcuffs, and confined to cells for the duration. Somehow I am thinking one thing != the other.

Quote from: estar;1054535In handcuffs, and confined to cells for the duration. Somehow I am thinking one thing != the other.

Hey, they got hygiene items! It's always a joy when the airlines force you to check your carry-on bag (at increased cost) and then delay you overnight...

Quote from: estar;1054535In handcuffs, and confined to cells for the duration. Somehow I am thinking one thing != the other.

So do you think that Brutal Deprivation is an accurate description of being handcuffed and detained?

Quote from: Apparition;1054389Three Dungeons & Dragons artists hired by WotC were detained by ICE in Seattle and then later denied entry to the U.S.



As you can imagine, this incident is going over swimmingly on Twitter at the moment.  I wonder what, if any, impact it will have on the Ravnica book.

Just some random Democrats. Who cares.

Quote from: estar;1054535In handcuffs, and confined to cells for the duration. Somehow I am thinking one thing != the other.

Let's not get silly by implying that they were in handcuffs for 11 hours. They were handcuffed, then then taken to a cell. Cops don't leave people in cuffs inside a cell.

They were "without beds" for 11 hours. Whether or not you think that qualifies as "brutal deprivation" I'll leave to each to decide for themselves.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1054537So do you think that Brutal Deprivation is an accurate description of being handcuffed and detained?

I was replying to you asserting that being confined to a ICE detention center was equivalent to waiting in a airport for 11 hours. An assertion I deagree with. I didn't bother including or addressing the part about Brutal Deprivation. I stated how I felt about it and why. See my response to #2 in the second post of this thread.

Quote from: estar;1054546I was replying to you asserting that being confined to a ICE detention center was equivalent to waiting in a airport for 11 hours. An assertion I deagree with. I didn't bother including or addressing the part about Brutal Deprivation. I stated how I felt about it and why. See my response to #2 in the second post of this thread.

Fair enough. I was comparing the length of the detainment and the lack of beds to the common scenario that delayed flights create. Of course the hypothetical airline commuters are not handcuffed or restricted from leaving because they are not being investigated for possible ESTA Visa waiver violation.

And I certainly do not consider any of these scenarios "Brutal deprivation".