I should clarify that the prices I specify are all full retail. Using Amazon pricing:

1. rulebook and dice app ($47) (for players with mobile devices);
2. rulebook and dice ($56); or
3. rulebook and starter set ($64).

Quote from: Willie the Duck;857036It's a roll low mechanic game.

Then he can stay.

Quote from: Tetsubo;857058A lot of the 3E era material was available online for free. Just as is Pathfinder. It's missing the 'fluff' but the core mechanics are all there. Has any iteration of Star Wars done that?

D6 Space (and D6 Fantasy) have been freely and legally available online for years.

Quote from: Skywalker;857079I should clarify that the prices I specify are all full retail. Using Amazon pricing:

1. rulebook and dice app ($47) (for players with mobile devices);
2. rulebook and dice ($56); or
3. rulebook and starter set ($64).

Yeah - all you really need is one of the base books and the die app. (or if your'e die-hog like me, I bought three sets of dice. If you're gonna use dice you only need one set, but two is very useful for GMing.)

It needs be mentioned too there are three base books, each covering a different aspect of the Star Wars universe.

Edge of the Empire - Gritty, crime syndicates, Hutt Cartels, Bounty Hunters, Mercs, Gambers and other denizens of skullduggery. But they also have colonists and explorers too. There are limited Force powers, with the assumption you're self-taught or a failed Jedi etc. It's very playable.

Age of Rebellion - Military stuff, covers most of the roles you'd play working for the Rebellion or Empire. More limited Force abilities, I believe they're generally the same.

Force and Destiny - This is the Force user's book, governing Jedi and rule for going darkside and what is obviously Sith plus lightsaber mechanics and fighting styles and sundry stuff for all the other non-Force users like anti-Jedi/Sith weaponry and armor.

All of these have overlap with gear with some differences, but enough to definitely run a full-fledged campaign with relative ease. I THINK they all have small adventures in them too. Something I should mention is they've started doing modular adventures designed to be broken down and used in mix-and-match order or dropped into your game as needed. They're very well done, so much so I use them and I generally loathe modules of the "adventure path" variety. I'm a sandbox GM and I will vouch for the usefulness of these adventures. They leave plenty to riff off of.

IF you only buy one of the base books there's a TON of community support to give you all the rules that have cropped up from the other books. Plus quite a few that have missed design passes that are damn good.

In reference to the dice... yeah that was my biggest hurdle. Then I used'em... eh, pretty easy.

Not to turn this into an Edge of the Empire thread...

I would also say A LOT of the d6 books are still *awesome* for reference. And it's pretty easy to convert as well once you're gotten used to EoE values.

Tramp Freighters - awesome for figuring out things if you wanna add details for prices for cargo, if you're doing a lot of space-trucking, and ideas for costs for doing business as well as protocols.

Bounty Hunters - Great book for background material on all the syndicates and Merc companies.

Galladium's Fantastic Technology - A lot of gear you can convert pretty easily, not covered by the books.

Of course the planet-guides for extra material. And many of the adventure books are easily convertible.

OR of course, you could just stick with d6 and roll on!

And while I don't play the D20 version of the Star Wars the Galactic Campaign Guide is about as good a supplement as they get.

Quote from: tenbones;857102Not to turn this into an Edge of the Empire thread...

I would also say A LOT of the d6 books are still *awesome* for reference. And it's pretty easy to convert as well once you're gotten used to EoE values.

Tramp Freighters - awesome for figuring out things if you wanna add details for prices for cargo, if you're doing a lot of space-trucking, and ideas for costs for doing business as well as protocols.

Bounty Hunters - Great book for background material on all the syndicates and Merc companies.

Galladium's Fantastic Technology - A lot of gear you can convert pretty easily, not covered by the books.

Of course the planet-guides for extra material. And many of the adventure books are easily convertible.

OR of course, you could just stick with d6 and roll on!

Those three books were my go to for WEG's game.  And ironically, a lot of that stuff DOES show up in the various Edge of Empires source book.

However, that said, if you have access to these specific books, so much the better.

...I miss my copies.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;857121Those three books were my go to for WEG's game.  And ironically, a lot of that stuff DOES show up in the various Edge of Empires source book.

However, that said, if you have access to these specific books, so much the better.

...I miss my copies.

Google the rancor pit. Pretty much every WEG SW book ever written is available as a free download. Incredible site.

I took a peek at my local used RPG bookstore Star Wars shelf. Having ignored Star Wars RPGs forever, I think I sort of get what the systems are. Am I right?

D6 = WEG (West End Games) - The first Star Wars RPG. 1987-1998. Uses a skill system where characters have skills described as how many d6 one rolls to see how well they do at something. Has a nice simple oldish style, and bunches of content. Some Expanded Universe novels/comics used D6 books as background source material.

D6 Space = same as above, or is it a generic version of the same system, for homebrew campaigns?

D20 = Star Wars RPG published starting in 2000 by WotC. Based on the D20 system, most checks involve rolling D20. May be more hitpoint-y / related to D&D 3e. Lots of content and pretty books which are denser and have more spent on color art than D6. Has some limited Star Wars Prequel content.

D20 Saga = WotC 2007-2010, apparently a second take by WotC on a Star Wars RPG. Seems have somewhat different mechanics and be a newer system replacing the earlier D20 system? Called "Saga" meaning it include Star Wars Prequel content. 14 books. 10 downloadable adventures. Web supplements. Characters have levels; max level is 20. There is a published article on converting stuff from D20 to D20 Saga stats. Books I saw seemed a little thicker/denser/lusher than the D20 books.

FFG = Fantasy Flight Games, who bought the Star Wars license in 2010. I saw someone elsewhere say it was based on Warhammer Fantasy RPG 3e? Uses d6 with symbols and a non-addition die-mechanic. Considered complex/daunting/blah by some, but people who got into it are saying it can be simple enough. Now that people mention the board games, I have seen the dogfight ones and briefly the Assault game, and peeked at the rules for the dogfight game, which seemed interesting but rather card-based and with a low range of ability values.

Quote from: Skarg;857192FFG = Fantasy Flight Games, who bought the Star Wars license in 2010. I saw someone elsewhere say it was based on Warhammer Fantasy RPG 3e? Uses d6 with symbols and a non-addition die-mechanic. Considered complex/daunting/blah by some, but people who got into it are saying it can be simple enough. Now that people mention the board games, I have seen the dogfight ones and briefly the Assault game, and peeked at the rules for the dogfight game, which seemed interesting but rather card-based and with a low range of ability values.

Correction with the FFG SW games, the dice it uses are actually pretty much most of the regular dice, there are D12, D8 and D6 shaped ones, but their own symbols instead of number values.  However, and I keep forgetting this, there is a section in most of the core books where they tell you how to use regular dice and where to 'put the symbols'.  Personally, due to my memory issues, I prefer the official dice roller app, or the actual dice.

I think someone posted the symbols so you can cut them out and stick them onto regular dice.

seems like a lot of work - I just bought the damn dice. 3 sets worth.

Quote from: tenbones;857199I think someone posted the symbols so you can cut them out and stick them onto regular dice.

seems like a lot of work - I just bought the damn dice. 3 sets worth.

The Starter boxes USED to come with little stickers you could put on the dice, I think...  Either way, the core books has rules for using 'regular' dice in place of the special ones.

1st edition WEG d6, with the Rules Compendium errata on Dodge (ie you don't add the base DC to your Dodge roll, use whichever is better) - and make Imperial Stormtroopers better than straight-2d6 baseline humans. In fact you probably want to tweak the combat rules a bit, nothing major but going by the movies the blasters should do more damage, I think a single rifle hit should generally be enough to incapacitate or kill an armoured trooper, so maybe boost the dice to 6d6, or maybe have attacker skill increase damage.

The 1st Edition d6 WEG Star Wars is one of the best written rpgs ever, and is a shining example of exactly how to make a licensed game. It could be argued that Ghostbusters is even better in both areas, but it's close. The Rules Companion has a couple great additions I use (variable difficulty numbers, uncertainty dice), but otherwise the single hardback is all you'll ever need...the Sourcebook is invaluable, though.

Further, it's better than Mentzer Basic for learning how to play an rpg. You can give a total newbie JUST the character sheet, and they can figure it out in 30 seconds. No exaggeration. Hell, tell them to read the first 20 pages (which aren't laid out like some fucking coffee table book (NUMENERA!)) and half an hour later they'll know all the rules.

As far as the FFG game goes, I sold my copy after deciding I didn't feel like rolling a bunch of dice to determine stuff. That's not cinematic...SW is purely a cinematic environment, and for all the hype modern storytelling games get, d6 as implemented in 1st Edition SW does the job a billion times better. The die mechanic is so unobtrusive, yet for some reason the act of rolling dice is simultaneously stressful and transparent. Costikyan is a genius.

Quote from: Brad;857235The 1st Edition d6 WEG Star Wars is one of the best written rpgs ever, and is a shining example of exactly how to make a licensed game. It could be argued that Ghostbusters is even better in both areas, but it's close. The Rules Companion has a couple great additions I use (variable difficulty numbers, uncertainty dice), but otherwise the single hardback is all you'll ever need...the Sourcebook is invaluable, though.

Agreed. I don't think I've EVER seen a licensed product handled this well (at least until Edge - I'll address that below). Never checked out Ghostbusters... may need to rectify that.

Quote from: Brad;857235As far as the FFG game goes, I sold my copy after deciding I didn't feel like rolling a bunch of dice to determine stuff. That's not cinematic...SW is purely a cinematic environment, and for all the hype modern storytelling games get, d6 as implemented in 1st Edition SW does the job a billion times better. The die mechanic is so unobtrusive, yet for some reason the act of rolling dice is simultaneously stressful and transparent. Costikyan is a genius.

Recognize we're both talking about our own opinions here - but I always felt rolling a bunch of d6's in WEG SW and adding them up was no big deal. But in Edge - I think is ridiculously easy. You're barely adding anything up, once you factor in the negations. The only reason other dice exist is to delineate - Skill (d12's) Environmental (d6) and that's it. I found rolling a pile of dice in either game to be eh, but in terms of outcomes, I discovered Edge's take on using the dice for specific reasons is pretty cool. I certainly didn't find it intrusive. I found the system to created very cinematic play welded solidly to the mechanics.

There's always environmental issues that can work for/against the PC's that let's the GM toss in Booster Dice/Setback Dice to keep tension high. The best part is the fact it's ALL about the setup and the roll. I've never once felt that the system works against anyone. I learned that it was quite the opposite to my surprise.

One of the interesting byproducts of the die-system in Edge was it got a lot of my players taking a lot of consideration on how they go about doing things in order to squeeze a Booster die into their roll. This actually made for some good gaming for us in both RP and Combat, and it reinforced play with a very passive mechanic that both rewarded players and the GM without much hassle.

I won't say it doesn't have a learning curve, all systems do, but I'll say it certainly wasn't as steep as I thought it would be. I didn't find it any more difficult than D6. Obviously YMMV.

Quote from: Brad;857235Further, it's better than Mentzer Basic for learning how to play an rpg. You can give a total newbie JUST the character sheet, and they can figure it out in 30 seconds. No exaggeration. Hell, tell them to read the first 20 pages (which aren't laid out like some fucking coffee table book (NUMENERA!)) and half an hour later they'll know all the rules.

I totally agree with this. It's not just the rules, it also the setting that is so accessible. All you need is to have seen the movies (who hasn't?) and your good. By comparison the D&D setting is can be quite confusing. Fantasy tropes are of course immediately familiar to roleplayers but we sometimes we can forget that, outside our hobby, that hasn't really been the case till more recently. It wasn't that long ago that most people couldn't tell an elf from leprechaun or garden gnome, the only famous dwarves were the ones in Snow White and  whole notion of a man of the cloth exploring through underground tunnels searching for treasures and turning under would have just drawn a blank stare.

But if Star Wars was the easiest starter roleplaying game for players, there is a case to say it wasn't necessarily for GMs. D&D gave you the dungeon and simple instructions on how to stock and run a dungeon. It may take skill to do this really well, but the basics are pretty mechanical.

Star Wars adventures were stories, divided in acts with all sorts assumptions on pacing and dramatic structure. The rulebook did provide the new GM with a full adventure and bunch of adventure seeds but running that sort of game without while respecting player agency is hard.

But I a get way off thread now.