My group and I never looked too seriously at any of the Star Wars RPG's as they came out. We were lucky enough to find the time for AD&D and DC Heroes. As a consequence, we know almost nothing about them. Maybe because the new movie's coming out, we are considering starting a Star Wars RPG. What are your thoughts on the various versions? Which one did you like best, and why?
The main attractions of the new one by FFG are that it is: a) in print; b) basically complete; and c) highly 'canonical'. That said, I find it overly dense, complex and rules-heavy.
Of the OOP games, I think you would have a hard time arguing seriously that there is something better than WEG's d6 Star Wars. Its main draw backs have to do with the non-canonical elements that crept in over time, and the sprawl of some parts of the system once all the various force-relevant material was published. But the core of the game is tighter, funner and more setting appropriate than any other system I've seen.
The other OOP games had their moment in the sun while they were in print, but I don't feel any of them stand up well over time. They are a bit more D&D-ish and so may appeal to people who have a narrow base of experience with various rpg sytsems. But they are not really better games than FFG or WEG editions.
My experience is limited to the old WEG d6 and the new FFG versions as I never played / GM'ed the D20 or Saga editions. Of the two I like FFG the best, not so much because of the system and dice, more due it being modern, supported and manages to capture the feel much better than WEG, IMHO anyway. I got heavily burned out GM-ing the old WEG system back in the day so that colors my impression of that system quite a lot. I am contemplating buying Force and Destiny in a couple of weeks to have the full set.
Do any Star Wars games have combat systems that _don't_ require players to expect to get shot several times and shrug it off with hit points (which would be more like D&D than Star Wars)? That is, that has some element of say, tactics, that allows you to roleplay blaster combat where you can play in a way that there's some way to avoid getting shot, not just avoid getting killed by being able to survive blaster hits and heal them real quick?
After all, number of times characters got shot:
Han Solo: zero
Luke: shot in the cyber-hand once?
Leia: twice (one by a stun, once in the shoulder, taking both her and Han out of action)
Chewie: zero
C3P0: once - taken out, needed to be rebuilt
R2D2: 3 times, always taken out with one shot.
Vader: took zero effective hits, only "hit" when parrying Han at dinner
Obi-Wan: zero
Greedo: once, killed
Lando: zero
Qui-gon: zero
Mace Windu: zero
Yoda: zero
...
The guys that wrote RQ6 also put out 'unofficial' Star Wars rules, which they quickly pulled but that are still easily obtained... I'm guessing those would be less D&D-ish in regards to shrugging off damage.
As for the 'official' rule sets... I'm a solid fan of the D6 rules... but I'm not the sort to care much about 'canon' if the general feel is right. The group I played with seemed set on re-enacting the first movies but I was really hoping to explore the wider setting and go off the rails a bit.
I like WEG D6 Stars Wars a lot. It's not to say it doesn't have issues, not least among them that I find the rule differences between the different editions and revisions are sort of jumbled in my head. But even with that it still one of most intuitive and accessible systems out there and it was a good fit for Star Wars, at least the original trilogy. Bear in mind my preferences always tends to go towards the simpler systems. I suspect the streamlined "Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game" WEG might be even more to my liking.
My experience with FFG Star Wars was less than positive. As a group we found having to reinterpret practically every dice roll exhausting especially for the GM (fortunately I was just a player). I imagine it get's easier with practice, we never got passed the learning curve. I was also put off by the they was character experience trees were structured, it felt a bit like a computer game.
I have little play experience with Star Wars D20. I picked up the D20 book when it was first released but never got round to reading it properly as it was so dull. How do you make Star Wars dull? The Saga edition seems to have been much better received but I think I may have only played it once so I can't really comment.
I often hear that due to the treatment of Force powers, Saga is the better game for the prequels, WEG for the originals. Make what you will of that.
I am not a D20 fan, but I enjoyed the Star Wars Saga edition, but I am unsure how much of the GM's freeform style was his own or supported by the rules since I only played in his short campaign, but I never bought the book.
I greatly enjoyed the D6 Star Wars, and that game certainly focused on Dodging and not getting shot.
I've played Savage Worlds Star Wars at several different cons with different GMs who homebrewed Star Wars into the SW rules and that's loads of fun IF you have lots of Star Wars toys or minis.
A solid GM at the LA conventions used to run Buffy Star Wars (a prequel campaign over several cons) and I was surprised how well the Buffy system did Star Wars.
The WEG D6 one is best, but I would like a version of it that's even simpler.
The FFG version is absurdly complex. It goes down some kind of deep, deep Asperger's rabbit-hole and parts of it almost read like a deliberate parody of complex RPGs. Maybe I'm on a very different page than most gamers, or maybe I'm just too old a dog for those new tricks, but I'm astonished such a mutant even made it out the gate. What a waste of what had to be a very expensive license.
WEG d6. And for that matter, get the first edition, not the second or revised second. It's the best SW game I've seen.
I've never played the latest FFG one, but cursory inspection says "way too FUCKING complicated."
The Star Wars d20 game in all its incarnations stinks worse than ten feet up Jabba the Hutt's ass. (Many Bothans died to bring us this information.)
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;856879The WEG D6 one is best, but I would like a version of it that's even simpler.
The FFG version is absurdly complex. It goes down some kind of deep, deep Asperger's rabbit-hole and parts of it almost read like a deliberate parody of complex RPGs. Maybe I'm on a very different page than most gamers, or maybe I'm just too old a dog for those new tricks, but I'm astonished such a mutant even made it out the gate. What a waste of what had to be a very expensive license.
You got this right. I own the game and don't regret having it on my shelf, but it is one of those things people will look at in 5 years and say, 'what the fuck were they thinking'? Just too damn many rules.
I have run all of them.
d6 - most comprehensive purely due to longevity. It's a good system, but you'll have to nit-pick between versions. It illustrates a very present dividing line between Force/Non-Force users. The problem is that Force Users are weak at the beginning due to the fact that they have to split their XP between Force skills and "normal" skills. It's not insurmountable, but if your game doesn't go the distance then it can feel unfulfilling unless it's a Jedi-heavy game.
Other than that - I highly recommend it, purely due to the comprehensive amount of content, a tremendous amount of which is still useful in later editions of the game purely for reference.
d20 Saga - I did not like this system. It had some interesting things about it, I just don't think a level/class based D&D style system as presented works well with Star Wars. COULD it work well? Sure, but I'd overhaul a lot of it. If you're going this route, I'd consider retooling Fantasy Craft to make it happen (which I believe they did on the Crafty Games forums and it's pretty badass). Even then - I personally like every other version of Star Wars better.
FFG's - After a very hesitant impulse... I picked up Edge of the Empire. To my utter amazement, I found I loved the game. Contrary to what others have said here, I find absolutely *nothing* complicated about the game. You're rarely having to do complex math, the most you're asked to do is add up and spend Advantages/Threats. Most of the other stuff is simple application of the roll. IF you want to be more interpretive to wring out the "cinematic" stuff - which I recommend, you can definitely take the game to the "next level".
I'll be honest, and I've said this on at least a half-dozen posts, I thought the die-mechanic was janky as fuck. Until I played it. It worked remarkably well for me and I made sure before I committed to the game that I ran combat, melee/ranged vehicle, social stuff, and really tried to break it. But it passed all my sniff-tests with relative flying colors. I did (along with everyone else) discover a couple of bizarro rules issues regarding ship-sensors, all of which have been fixed in errata or in House-rule changes with little issue.
There has been enough time for the game to be out to have a complete Star Wars experience. Anything that is missing flavor-wise you can easily pick up from the D6 game. The Force and Destiny book is pretty fucking badass. Also it needs to be mentioned the quality of these books is the best I've *ever* seen. Mine are sturdy and solid. The interior artwork is *mindblowingly gorgeous*. FFG did not skimp on *anything*.
My BIGGEST criticism is that they rolled the game with rules/gear/additional stuff within their adventures and splats. So trying to figure out how to... say... do a microjump is not in any obvious book. So you need to keep checking the forums for meta-indexes which the awesome community keeps updated.
I need to say FFG's forum community is superb and helpful as well. Very little fighting and bullshittery.
IMO - if you're going to do Star Wars, I'd go Edge of the Empire. But I will never tell someone to not use d6. It's just a damn good game too.
Quote from: Skarg;856801Do any Star Wars games have combat systems that _don't_ require players to expect to get shot several times and shrug it off with hit points (which would be more like D&D than Star Wars)? That is, that has some element of say, tactics, that allows you to roleplay blaster combat where you can play in a way that there's some way to avoid getting shot, not just avoid getting killed by being able to survive blaster hits and heal them real quick?
After all, number of times characters got shot:
Han Solo: zero
Luke: shot in the cyber-hand once?
Leia: twice (one by a stun, once in the shoulder, taking both her and Han out of action)
Chewie: zero
C3P0: once - taken out, needed to be rebuilt
R2D2: 3 times, always taken out with one shot.
Vader: took zero effective hits, only "hit" when parrying Han at dinner
Obi-Wan: zero
Greedo: once, killed
Lando: zero
Qui-gon: zero
Mace Windu: zero
Yoda: zero
...
FFG's Star Wars line is perfect for this. But... You need special dice and it can get a bit rules heave at the start...
And Tenbones gets it in before I do. :p
Quote from: tenbones;856903FFG's - After a very hesitant impulse... I picked up Edge of the Empire. To my utter amazement, I found I loved the game. Contrary to what others have said here, I find absolutely *nothing* complicated about the game. You're rarely having to do complex math, the most you're asked to do is add up and spend Advantages/Threats. Most of the other stuff is simple application of the roll. IF you want to be more interpretive to wring out the "cinematic" stuff - which I recommend, you can definitely take the game to the "next level".
I'm about ready to get off my ass and get a new group together, and was noodling around the idea of a Star Wars campaign, (that or 5th ed) and I'm finding that the FFG system gets a huge range of reactions from "Yuck!" to "Super neato!" which makes my decision to get into the game or not all the harder.
Quote from: Skarg;856801Do any Star Wars games have combat systems that _don't_ require players to expect to get shot several times and shrug it off with hit points (which would be more like D&D than Star Wars)? That is, that has some element of say, tactics, that allows you to roleplay blaster combat where you can play in a way that there's some way to avoid getting shot, not just avoid getting killed by being able to survive blaster hits and heal them real quick?
After all, number of times characters got shot:
Han Solo: zero
Luke: shot in the cyber-hand once?
Leia: twice (one by a stun, once in the shoulder, taking both her and Han out of action)
Chewie: zero
C3P0: once - taken out, needed to be rebuilt
R2D2: 3 times, always taken out with one shot.
Vader: took zero effective hits, only "hit" when parrying Han at dinner
Obi-Wan: zero
Greedo: once, killed
Lando: zero
Qui-gon: zero
Mace Windu: zero
Yoda: zero
...
Now go back and count the number of times the characters were nearly hit. That is part of D&Ds HP system. Avoiding getting hit, wearing down endurance and luck. HP works fine in Star Wars.
But a HPless system is fine. Though often whatever is in its place boils down to the same thing. Something wearing down and you drop.
Quote from: Omega;856935Now go back and count the number of times the characters were nearly hit. That is part of D&Ds HP system. Avoiding getting hit, wearing down endurance and luck. HP works fine in Star Wars.
Dress it up however you want, some people just prefer a game where Han Solo and a Rancor don't have the same hit points, wound levels, or whatever one calls them.
Quote from: Bren;856938Dress it up however you want, some people just prefer a game where Han Solo and a Rancor don't have the same hit points, wound levels, or whatever one calls them.
Lucas is working on that in the latest re-edition. The Rancor shot first.
Quote from: Omega;856943Lucas is working on that in the latest re-edition. The Rancor shot first.
Son of a bitch.
Quote from: Skarg;856801Do any Star Wars games have combat systems that _don't_ require players to expect to get shot several times and shrug it off with hit points (which would be more like D&D than Star Wars)? That is, that has some element of say, tactics, that allows you to roleplay blaster combat where you can play in a way that there's some way to avoid getting shot, not just avoid getting killed by being able to survive blaster hits and heal them real quick?
"Losing HP" doesn't necessary equal "physical contact was made" in any version of D&D to date.
It CAN mean that, but it doesn't necessarily mean it.
"You lose ten HPs as you dodge the blaster bolt by little more than a Wookiee nut-sac hair" is HPs working as they always have.
FFG is a complicated boardgame that doesn't include the board.
Hmm, since I always want a map, I wonder what I'd have to engineer myself to add maps to FFG.
Thanks for the info, folks. I'm suddenly interested in checking out D6 and FFG, in ways I've never been before.
Edit: Below is just me explaining myself. I don't want to threadcrap, and I get that many/most people are content with hitpoint abstraction (and no maps), and I'm not trying to talk anyone out of that. If someone does want to get into such a discussion, we can start a new thread.
As for "near misses are used hitpoints", ok I've heard that before, but it doesn't work for me or my players. We're too logical and literal, and want to play with a different kind of cause and effect, more like reality. For just one example, if dodging uses HP, then Han's player can know he almost surely won't get killed in any small enough battle where he starts with full HP. And, even though he's not been hit but is "really worn out from dodging", if the player knows he's low on HP, he knows he _is_ suddenly vulnerable to getting nailed if he runs into a few more guys.
After all, this makes for an entirely different game situation and decisions when doing something like rescuing someone from Death Star detention. If I've got (no map and) a pile of hitpoints, we can just walk in with Chewie in chains and say we have a clever plan and start rolling dice and expect not to die, and expect to also be a bit closer to eventual death due to zero HP.
But if we're playing a game with a map and single blaster hits generally waste someone, then we as players are responsible for looking at the map, seeing what guards are standing where and what their equipment and readiness is like, and then choosing where to stand so that we can be pretending to shoot at Chewie but hitting particular guards and cameras while Chewie takes out people within reach, and we need to face so we can keep as many of them in view, and shoot the least confused guards before any of them can get a weapon ready, use any terrain, etc. That is _we_ as players actually have a solid share of tactical responsibility for actually overcoming the fictional situation, in a way that makes sense, or else we're really screwed. We actually might get something wrong and get one or more of us blasted, at which point those people are dead or seriously messed up in a way that affects their combat ability in ways other than "another hit and they're probably dead". But if we pull it off, we might be a little more tired and lower on ammo, and we're screwed because the guards are after us, but we haven't used up any mystical "don't get killed" points. Real luck does run out, but one never knows when or how.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;856962FFG is a complicated boardgame that doesn't include the board.
Care to elaborate?
I'm a pretty demanding GM when it comes to my sniff-test on roleplaying. I detested D&D4e as being exactly what you assert FFG's SW to be even if I'm being a dash hyperbolic. I liken 4e as Talisman on steroids. The reality is I *could* make it work... but I'd never like it due to its constraints.
What about EotE is boardgamey? Maybe we have some very different definitions?
It's a simple stat+skill roll against a difficulty of 1-5 (represented as dice). It's got a robust combat system that does a good job of handling melee and ranged combat. Tons of gear. Tons of fluff material. I don't think I've used a battle-map *once*. Lemme take that back - I think I did use a battlemat once, but it certainly wasn't mandatory.
I'm as old-school as anyone on this forum, and aside from the janky custom dice, I've found the game runs pretty rock solid.* Once you get around that "issue" (and if you haven't noticed yet, I too thought it was an issue, now I don't) then it's pretty smooth sailing.
* I recognize a lot of people here don't like meta-rules like Force points to let people change the scenario, and shit like that. You don't *have* to be that overt with it. Like anything else it's a mechanic that you as a GM have a say in. It's pretty minuscule.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;856932I'm about ready to get off my ass and get a new group together, and was noodling around the idea of a Star Wars campaign, (that or 5th ed) and I'm finding that the FFG system gets a huge range of reactions from "Yuck!" to "Super neato!" which makes my decision to get into the game or not all the harder.
Yeah Rat, that's been my impression too. I honestly do not understand the "Yuck" factor to people's reaction. I approached it as about as biased against it as anyone else... But aside from few meta-mechanics, it runs really well. Of course your point-of-entry into the game costs $$$... so I can understand that hesitation.
That said - I own all three lines and every book for it. I haven't felt I've been underserved by ANY of them. Even the books I expected to not like - like the Explorer's splat. It was damn good. Perhaps that's the SINGLE benefit of spreading around gear/rules among their books. Still makes me grumble...
Quote from: Skarg;856801Do any Star Wars games have combat systems that _don't_ require players to expect to get shot several times and shrug it off with hit points (which would be more like D&D than Star Wars)? That is, that has some element of say, tactics, that allows you to roleplay blaster combat where you can play in a way that there's some way to avoid getting shot, not just avoid getting killed by being able to survive blaster hits and heal them real quick?
To answer this directly: d6 and FFG's easily do this.
The only assumption I make here is this: If I'm a PC in either game, I'm going to make sure my gear is top-knotch. In d6 you can do more than enough to customize your blasters to one/two-shot someone. In FFG - it's even scarier. FFG has a *lot* of customization to gear and it's classes can allow you to be very offensive/defensive as you see fit, but it will cost you in other areas. Since FFG and d6 are skill-based games, if your game goes the distance you can make some really powerhouse characters and still be hurt by standard weaponry.
FFG does a better job with letting you feel heroic since they have Mook rules. Your characters can mow down Mooks with cautious abandon, though a group of Mooks can still pose dangers. Then they have two tiers above your standard Mooks to customize your encounters with so a GM can always get the right tempo out of their fights - social or otherwise. The social rules utilizing the Strain-mechanic (essentially it's non-health HP signifying stress) is, imo, one of the most powerful mechanics in the game to keep PC's on their toes.
I've only played d20's Star Wars and later Saga and felt the latter was a better system than the former. If you've already cut your teeth or have extensive knowledge of D&D 3e/Pathfinder then Saga is just a simple step into Star Wars version of that game.
Plus KotoR is based, loosely, from d20 so I take a lot of inspiration from that game as well.
Going to agree with tenbones. FFG Star Wars is a lot of fun to play, and easy to run. I'm going to assume the people decrying its complexity have never actually played it. It's a dice pool game with 3 pairs of canceling symbols. It's definitely not rocket surgery.
I've not got a lot of experience with the supplements, but the core books are sufficient for your needs with a bit of creativity.
Quote from: Skarg;856801Do any Star Wars games have combat systems that _don't_ require players to expect to get shot several times and shrug it off with hit points (which would be more like D&D than Star Wars)? That is, that has some element of say, tactics, that allows you to roleplay blaster combat where you can play in a way that there's some way to avoid getting shot, not just avoid getting killed by being able to survive blaster hits and heal them real quick?
After all, number of times characters got shot:
Han Solo: zero
Luke: shot in the cyber-hand once?
Leia: twice (one by a stun, once in the shoulder, taking both her and Han out of action)
Chewie: zero
C3P0: once - taken out, needed to be rebuilt
R2D2: 3 times, always taken out with one shot.
Vader: took zero effective hits, only "hit" when parrying Han at dinner
Obi-Wan: zero
Greedo: once, killed
Lando: zero
Qui-gon: zero
Mace Windu: zero
Yoda: zero
...
WEG can do that, and certainly encourages tactical thinking, since you cannot take 20 hits and rely on armor and healing. Leia's shoulder hit counts as a stunning wound in that system, and her getting hit caused her and Han to get surrounded by storm troopers (but she was still able to fight).
The problem I have with "1-hit-down" systems, is that they are often way too lethal. Yes, few of the protagonists in the SW movies are hit much, but that's because the nature of movies is that the heroes are considered to be making their dodge rolls at all times except when the plot requires (and you note how well it works for the stormtroopers/red-shirt rebels). How do you emulate that for your PCs, while still
I am all for gaming systems that encourage smart PCs, but I don't know all that many that do it well. Some, like Traveller, do play this up (unless you are in battledress), but then PCs almost never engage in firefights with trained soldiers). GURPS 3e was pretty good with the lethality, but I never saw many combat heavy sci-fi games get off the ground.
I think the best lethal + tactics sci fi game I know is 3:16 (there you have 4 hits until dead, but it's still a low number, and consistent throughout the game), but that one is so simple that there's not a lot of room to use good tactics either (above "My squad leader character spends his action to give his troops a +2 to being hit").
Quote from: Willie the Duck;857020"My squad leader character spends his action to give his troops a +2 to being hit"
I'd replace that guy. :p
Quote from: tenbones;856987The social rules utilizing the Strain-mechanic (essentially it's non-health HP signifying stress) is, imo, one of the most powerful mechanics in the game to keep PC's on their toes.
You mean I can shoot Han Solo in the Princess Leia? (meaning is there a way to turn physical damage into strain)
Quote from: Bren;857023I'd replace that guy. :p
It's a roll low mechanic game.
Quote from: Skarg;856984Hmm, since I always want a map, I wonder what I'd have to engineer myself to add maps to FFG.
Check out FFGs attendant board game. Star Wars: Imperial Assault. It plays alot like Descent and uses modular boards. The minis and boards work great with the RPG.
One of the other problems with FFGs SW:RPG is the cost. There have been a few tallies on the final cost of the RPG and depending on how completist you are or if you just want the stuff with mechanics and class/setting info. The game can get pretty expensive. Add in the cards and all that and it gets a bit more expensive.
Quote from: Omega;857042One of the other problems with FFGs SW:RPG is the cost. There have been a few tallies on the final cost of the RPG and depending on how completist you are or if you just want the stuff with mechanics and class/setting info. The game can get pretty expensive. Add in the cards and all that and it gets a bit more expensive.
I looked at Edge of the Empire on Amazon the other day and the cheapest one was $900.
The FFG core books should run about $60USD. The Dice runs, typically $14, so at the very least you're looking at $74, depending on the type of game you want to run. That said, that's all you really need for it
Quote from: CRKrueger;857035You mean I can shoot Han Solo in the Princess Leia? (meaning is there a way to turn physical damage into strain)
You can simply set your gun to Stun and yes, "shoot Han in his Princess Leia".
(not sure what the euphemism for that body part is supposed to represent, but I can imagine!)
So yeah - you can use Strain in lieu of blowing smoking holes in people. You can intimidate people and cause Strain. The GM can grant you strain just for being shot at. You can resist it, but the difficulty is set by the GM - and some classes are immune to situations that cause auto-strain simply because they're badasses. But still... Strain is a potent tool for keeping the PC's on their toes and setting the tone for the situation.
Strain also works on vehicles - it's representative of various systems that could get ionized etc. There's LOTS of badass random tables.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;857047The FFG core books should run about $60USD.
The most recent two books are still cheap.
Edge of the Empire seems rare as of right now (maybe they will print more?). It might be available on E-Bay or something, though.
Quote from: Omega;857042One of the other problems with FFGs SW:RPG is the cost. There have been a few tallies on the final cost of the RPG and depending on how completist you are or if you just want the stuff with mechanics and class/setting info. The game can get pretty expensive. Add in the cards and all that and it gets a bit more expensive.
Yeah. I skipped all the cards. They're unnecessary as all of that information is in the books, but they're handy for reference I guess.
The rules/gear-spreading I've griped about will require you to download one of the community-made indexes that will tell you where you can find certain rules. It's really not that big of a deal. But yeah, these books are pricey, and imo, if you're gonna GM - worth every penny.
If you're just an "rpg collector" - I'd say you're out of your mind, but hey, it's your money, right? Right.
I thought the Star Wars D20 version would make a good generic sci-fi or cyberpunk game. The Alien Anthology would be an awesome resource for a 3.5 or Pathfinder game if you want unusual races. My preference is the Saga edition. It just seems to hit the 'sweet spot' for me. I know nothing about the latest iteration and the D6 version left me cold.
Quote from: Omega;857042Check out FFGs attendant board game. Star Wars: Imperial Assault. It plays alot like Descent and uses modular boards. The minis and boards work great with the RPG.
One of the other problems with FFGs SW:RPG is the cost. There have been a few tallies on the final cost of the RPG and depending on how completist you are or if you just want the stuff with mechanics and class/setting info. The game can get pretty expensive. Add in the cards and all that and it gets a bit more expensive.
Hardly the first rpg to have a hefty price tag to have everything.
DnD (3, 3.5 and 4th obviously), WW etc aren't exactly cheap to complete.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;857054Hardly the first rpg to have a hefty price tag to have everything.
DnD (3, 3.5 and 4th obviously), WW etc aren't exactly cheap to complete.
A lot of the 3E era material was available online for free. Just as is Pathfinder. It's missing the 'fluff' but the core mechanics are all there. Has any iteration of Star Wars done that?
Quote from: tenbones;857048You can simply set your gun to Stun and yes, "shoot Han in his Princess Leia".
(not sure what the euphemism for that body part is supposed to represent, but I can imagine!)
So yeah - you can use Strain in lieu of blowing smoking holes in people. You can intimidate people and cause Strain. The GM can grant you strain just for being shot at. You can resist it, but the difficulty is set by the GM - and some classes are immune to situations that cause auto-strain simply because they're badasses. But still... Strain is a potent tool for keeping the PC's on their toes and setting the tone for the situation.
Strain also works on vehicles - it's representative of various systems that could get ionized etc. There's LOTS of badass random tables.
Strain (or Stress) is used in a lot of narrative games like MHRP. The idea is an attack, like a punch, can cause stress that might not manifest immediately, but come out later as a complication or consequence. I punch the hell out of Spidey, but it doesn't hurt him, but it allows me to get away. Later that frustration comes out in an argument with Mary Jane which leads to the Stress finally becoming a Complication when MJ kicks his ass out.
So...I punched Spidey in the Mary Jane.
Defining Physical and Emotional Stress differently isn't the issue, it's when I can translate one type of damage into another that I can Shoot Han Solo in the Princess Leia or I can beat Darth Vader through laughing at him, striking at his inner pussboy Haden Christiansen. :D
It's an extreme form of Conflict Resolution taken to ridiculous narrative extremes in an attempt at genre emulation.
Or, to Jay Little, Tuesday.
Strain in FFG's RPG doesn't operate like that though. Its far removed from MHR and PDQ style effects that you raise. Its more in line with VP, subdual damage or fatigue, and has little or no narrative weight. It heals quickly, so has no lingering narrative effect.
I think your observations are better aimed at the Advantage and Threat results on the dice, but even then the narrative potential of these is extremely limited. At best, they provide a bonus dice on someone's next action which is essentially an assist and not really a narrative effect.
So, as per the RAW, you can't shoot Han Solo in the Princess Leia. You can simply give him a penalty to his next action in seeing Princess Leia being hurt, which isn't that far fetched an idea (see when Leia is shot in front of the bunker door in RotJ).
There are some limited abilities to cause strain to people without causing harm, but they are limited in scope and certainly nowhere near as good as having a good blaster by your side.
Quote from: tenbones;856986Yeah Rat, that's been my impression too. I honestly do not understand the "Yuck" factor to people's reaction.
Common one I've seen for dislike is the dice. Some players just do not, or occasionally can not grock to icons. It puts up a barrier against getting into the game. See that in board games too.
Some are ok with the dice. But not with the way they are used for resolutions.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;857047The FFG core books should run about $60USD. The Dice runs, typically $14, so at the very least you're looking at $74, depending on the type of game you want to run. That said, that's all you really need for it
Absolutely.
But.
If you want the rest of the game then thats going to add up
Starter: 30$ or Core book 60$ or 75$ for the core and one pack of dice.
Dice 15$ (Required if you just got the core book. Optional if you got the starter or dont mind stickering regular RPG dice.)
GM Kit 20$ (Pretty sure this is totally optional unless you want the pack in module?)
6 Rules supplements 200$ (Some of these are optional if you dont need setting info. Some have new classes/races, equipment or mechanics though)
3 modules 90$ (Totally optional if you never use modules)
3 Adversary decks 21$ (Pretty sure these are totally optional)
35 Spec Decks 245$ (Pretty sure these are totally optional and players would be buying these for themselves individually as needed.)
Quote from: Omega;857072Starter: 30$ or Core book 60$ or 75$ for the core and one pack of dice.
Dice 15$ (Required if you just got the core book. Optional if you got the starter or dont mind stickering regular RPG dice.)
GM Kit 20$ (Pretty sure this is totally optional unless you want the pack in module?)
6 Rules supplements 200$ (Some of these are optional if you dont need setting info. Some have new classes/races, equipment or mechanics though)
3 modules 90$ (Totally optional if you never use modules)
3 Adversary decks 21$ (Pretty sure these are totally optional)
35 Spec Decks 245$ (Pretty sure these are totally optional and players would be buying these for themselves individually as needed.)
IME your choices for "buy in" are:
1. rulebook and dice app ($65) (for players with mobile devices);
2. rulebook and dice ($75); or
3. rulebook and starter set ($90).
There is enough material in each corebook to make all supplements optional, and everything is optional.
Quote from: Skywalker;857074IME your choices for "buy in" are:
1. rulebook and dice app ($65) (for players with mobile devices);
2. rulebook and dice ($75); or
3. rulebook and starter set ($90).
There is enough material in each corebook to make all supplements optional, and everything is optional.
Pretty much this. Compared to D&D's 100 to 120, without dice? Pretty reasonable.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;857075Pretty much this. Compared to D&D's 100 to 120, without dice? Pretty reasonable.
I got the 5e books for around 75-80$ with the early purchase so it was comprable. Right now you can get all three for about 90 off Amazon. And technically the DMG and MM are optional. Retail though 5e is 150$. Dice arent even an issue at this point for D&D.You either have some allready or can buy some for as little as 2$
Still. 5e retails total more than FFGs SW core+dice is going retail.
I should clarify that the prices I specify are all full retail. Using Amazon pricing:
1. rulebook and dice app ($47) (for players with mobile devices);
2. rulebook and dice ($56); or
3. rulebook and starter set ($64).
Quote from: Willie the Duck;857036It's a roll low mechanic game.
Then he can stay.
Quote from: Tetsubo;857058A lot of the 3E era material was available online for free. Just as is Pathfinder. It's missing the 'fluff' but the core mechanics are all there. Has any iteration of Star Wars done that?
D6 Space (and D6 Fantasy) have been freely and legally available online for years.
Quote from: Skywalker;857079I should clarify that the prices I specify are all full retail. Using Amazon pricing:
1. rulebook and dice app ($47) (for players with mobile devices);
2. rulebook and dice ($56); or
3. rulebook and starter set ($64).
Yeah - all you really need is one of the base books and the die app. (or if your'e die-hog like me, I bought three sets of dice. If you're gonna use dice you only need one set, but two is very useful for GMing.)
It needs be mentioned too there are three base books, each covering a different aspect of the Star Wars universe.
Edge of the Empire - Gritty, crime syndicates, Hutt Cartels, Bounty Hunters, Mercs, Gambers and other denizens of skullduggery. But they also have colonists and explorers too. There are limited Force powers, with the assumption you're self-taught or a failed Jedi etc. It's very playable.
Age of Rebellion - Military stuff, covers most of the roles you'd play working for the Rebellion or Empire. More limited Force abilities, I believe they're generally the same.
Force and Destiny - This is the Force user's book, governing Jedi and rule for going darkside and what is obviously Sith plus lightsaber mechanics and fighting styles and sundry stuff for all the other non-Force users like anti-Jedi/Sith weaponry and armor.
All of these have overlap with gear with some differences, but enough to definitely run a full-fledged campaign with relative ease. I THINK they all have small adventures in them too. Something I should mention is they've started doing modular adventures designed to be broken down and used in mix-and-match order or dropped into your game as needed. They're very well done, so much so I use them and I generally loathe modules of the "adventure path" variety. I'm a sandbox GM and I will vouch for the usefulness of these adventures. They leave plenty to riff off of.
IF you only buy one of the base books there's a TON of community support to give you all the rules that have cropped up from the other books. Plus quite a few that have missed design passes that are damn good.
In reference to the dice... yeah that was my biggest hurdle. Then I used'em... eh, pretty easy.
Not to turn this into an Edge of the Empire thread...
I would also say A LOT of the d6 books are still *awesome* for reference. And it's pretty easy to convert as well once you're gotten used to EoE values.
Tramp Freighters - awesome for figuring out things if you wanna add details for prices for cargo, if you're doing a lot of space-trucking, and ideas for costs for doing business as well as protocols.
Bounty Hunters - Great book for background material on all the syndicates and Merc companies.
Galladium's Fantastic Technology - A lot of gear you can convert pretty easily, not covered by the books.
Of course the planet-guides for extra material. And many of the adventure books are easily convertible.
OR of course, you could just stick with d6 and roll on!
And while I don't play the D20 version of the Star Wars the Galactic Campaign Guide is about as good a supplement as they get.
Quote from: tenbones;857102Not to turn this into an Edge of the Empire thread...
I would also say A LOT of the d6 books are still *awesome* for reference. And it's pretty easy to convert as well once you're gotten used to EoE values.
Tramp Freighters - awesome for figuring out things if you wanna add details for prices for cargo, if you're doing a lot of space-trucking, and ideas for costs for doing business as well as protocols.
Bounty Hunters - Great book for background material on all the syndicates and Merc companies.
Galladium's Fantastic Technology - A lot of gear you can convert pretty easily, not covered by the books.
Of course the planet-guides for extra material. And many of the adventure books are easily convertible.
OR of course, you could just stick with d6 and roll on!
Those three books were my go to for WEG's game. And ironically, a lot of that stuff DOES show up in the various Edge of Empires source book.
However, that said, if you have access to these specific books, so much the better.
...I miss my copies.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;857121Those three books were my go to for WEG's game. And ironically, a lot of that stuff DOES show up in the various Edge of Empires source book.
However, that said, if you have access to these specific books, so much the better.
...I miss my copies.
Google the rancor pit. Pretty much every WEG SW book ever written is available as a free download. Incredible site.
I took a peek at my local used RPG bookstore Star Wars shelf. Having ignored Star Wars RPGs forever, I think I sort of get what the systems are. Am I right?
D6 = WEG (West End Games) - The first Star Wars RPG. 1987-1998. Uses a skill system where characters have skills described as how many d6 one rolls to see how well they do at something. Has a nice simple oldish style, and bunches of content. Some Expanded Universe novels/comics used D6 books as background source material.
D6 Space = same as above, or is it a generic version of the same system, for homebrew campaigns?
D20 = Star Wars RPG published starting in 2000 by WotC. Based on the D20 system, most checks involve rolling D20. May be more hitpoint-y / related to D&D 3e. Lots of content and pretty books which are denser and have more spent on color art than D6. Has some limited Star Wars Prequel content.
D20 Saga = WotC 2007-2010, apparently a second take by WotC on a Star Wars RPG. Seems have somewhat different mechanics and be a newer system replacing the earlier D20 system? Called "Saga" meaning it include Star Wars Prequel content. 14 books. 10 downloadable adventures. Web supplements. Characters have levels; max level is 20. There is a published article on converting stuff from D20 to D20 Saga stats. Books I saw seemed a little thicker/denser/lusher than the D20 books.
FFG = Fantasy Flight Games, who bought the Star Wars license in 2010. I saw someone elsewhere say it was based on Warhammer Fantasy RPG 3e? Uses d6 with symbols and a non-addition die-mechanic. Considered complex/daunting/blah by some, but people who got into it are saying it can be simple enough. Now that people mention the board games, I have seen the dogfight ones and briefly the Assault game, and peeked at the rules for the dogfight game, which seemed interesting but rather card-based and with a low range of ability values.
Quote from: Skarg;857192FFG = Fantasy Flight Games, who bought the Star Wars license in 2010. I saw someone elsewhere say it was based on Warhammer Fantasy RPG 3e? Uses d6 with symbols and a non-addition die-mechanic. Considered complex/daunting/blah by some, but people who got into it are saying it can be simple enough. Now that people mention the board games, I have seen the dogfight ones and briefly the Assault game, and peeked at the rules for the dogfight game, which seemed interesting but rather card-based and with a low range of ability values.
Correction with the FFG SW games, the dice it uses are actually pretty much most of the regular dice, there are D12, D8 and D6 shaped ones, but their own symbols instead of number values. However, and I keep forgetting this, there is a section in most of the core books where they tell you how to use regular dice and where to 'put the symbols'. Personally, due to my memory issues, I prefer the official dice roller app, or the actual dice.
I think someone posted the symbols so you can cut them out and stick them onto regular dice.
seems like a lot of work - I just bought the damn dice. 3 sets worth.
Quote from: tenbones;857199I think someone posted the symbols so you can cut them out and stick them onto regular dice.
seems like a lot of work - I just bought the damn dice. 3 sets worth.
The Starter boxes USED to come with little stickers you could put on the dice, I think... Either way, the core books has rules for using 'regular' dice in place of the special ones.
1st edition WEG d6, with the Rules Compendium errata on Dodge (ie you don't add the base DC to your Dodge roll, use whichever is better) - and make Imperial Stormtroopers better than straight-2d6 baseline humans. In fact you probably want to tweak the combat rules a bit, nothing major but going by the movies the blasters should do more damage, I think a single rifle hit should generally be enough to incapacitate or kill an armoured trooper, so maybe boost the dice to 6d6, or maybe have attacker skill increase damage.
The 1st Edition d6 WEG Star Wars is one of the best written rpgs ever, and is a shining example of exactly how to make a licensed game. It could be argued that Ghostbusters is even better in both areas, but it's close. The Rules Companion has a couple great additions I use (variable difficulty numbers, uncertainty dice), but otherwise the single hardback is all you'll ever need...the Sourcebook is invaluable, though.
Further, it's better than Mentzer Basic for learning how to play an rpg. You can give a total newbie JUST the character sheet, and they can figure it out in 30 seconds. No exaggeration. Hell, tell them to read the first 20 pages (which aren't laid out like some fucking coffee table book (NUMENERA!)) and half an hour later they'll know all the rules.
As far as the FFG game goes, I sold my copy after deciding I didn't feel like rolling a bunch of dice to determine stuff. That's not cinematic...SW is purely a cinematic environment, and for all the hype modern storytelling games get, d6 as implemented in 1st Edition SW does the job a billion times better. The die mechanic is so unobtrusive, yet for some reason the act of rolling dice is simultaneously stressful and transparent. Costikyan is a genius.
Quote from: Brad;857235The 1st Edition d6 WEG Star Wars is one of the best written rpgs ever, and is a shining example of exactly how to make a licensed game. It could be argued that Ghostbusters is even better in both areas, but it's close. The Rules Companion has a couple great additions I use (variable difficulty numbers, uncertainty dice), but otherwise the single hardback is all you'll ever need...the Sourcebook is invaluable, though.
Agreed. I don't think I've EVER seen a licensed product handled this well (at least until Edge - I'll address that below). Never checked out Ghostbusters... may need to rectify that.
Quote from: Brad;857235As far as the FFG game goes, I sold my copy after deciding I didn't feel like rolling a bunch of dice to determine stuff. That's not cinematic...SW is purely a cinematic environment, and for all the hype modern storytelling games get, d6 as implemented in 1st Edition SW does the job a billion times better. The die mechanic is so unobtrusive, yet for some reason the act of rolling dice is simultaneously stressful and transparent. Costikyan is a genius.
Recognize we're both talking about our own opinions here - but I always felt rolling a bunch of d6's in WEG SW and adding them up was no big deal. But in Edge - I think is ridiculously easy. You're barely adding anything up, once you factor in the negations. The only reason other dice exist is to delineate - Skill (d12's) Environmental (d6) and that's it. I found rolling a pile of dice in either game to be eh, but in terms of outcomes, I discovered Edge's take on using the dice for specific reasons is pretty cool. I certainly didn't find it intrusive. I found the system to created very cinematic play welded solidly to the mechanics.
There's always environmental issues that can work for/against the PC's that let's the GM toss in Booster Dice/Setback Dice to keep tension high. The best part is the fact it's ALL about the setup and the roll. I've never once felt that the system works against anyone. I learned that it was quite the opposite to my surprise.
One of the interesting byproducts of the die-system in Edge was it got a lot of my players taking a lot of consideration on how they go about doing things in order to squeeze a Booster die into their roll. This actually made for some good gaming for us in both RP and Combat, and it reinforced play with a very passive mechanic that both rewarded players and the GM without much hassle.
I won't say it doesn't have a learning curve, all systems do, but I'll say it certainly wasn't as steep as I thought it would be. I didn't find it any more difficult than D6. Obviously YMMV.
Quote from: Brad;857235Further, it's better than Mentzer Basic for learning how to play an rpg. You can give a total newbie JUST the character sheet, and they can figure it out in 30 seconds. No exaggeration. Hell, tell them to read the first 20 pages (which aren't laid out like some fucking coffee table book (NUMENERA!)) and half an hour later they'll know all the rules.
I totally agree with this. It's not just the rules, it also the setting that is so accessible. All you need is to have seen the movies (who hasn't?) and your good. By comparison the D&D setting is can be quite confusing. Fantasy tropes are of course immediately familiar to roleplayers but we sometimes we can forget that, outside our hobby, that hasn't really been the case till more recently. It wasn't that long ago that most people couldn't tell an elf from leprechaun or garden gnome, the only famous dwarves were the ones in Snow White and whole notion of a man of the cloth exploring through underground tunnels searching for treasures and turning under would have just drawn a blank stare.
But if Star Wars was the easiest starter roleplaying game for players, there is a case to say it wasn't necessarily for GMs. D&D gave you the dungeon and simple instructions on how to stock and run a dungeon. It may take skill to do this really well, but the basics are pretty mechanical.
Star Wars adventures were stories, divided in acts with all sorts assumptions on pacing and dramatic structure. The rulebook did provide the new GM with a full adventure and bunch of adventure seeds but running that sort of game without while respecting player agency is hard.
But I a get way off thread now.
Quote from: tenbones;857304Never checked out Ghostbusters... may need to rectify that.
It's a "rules-light indie game" before such a thing existed. Definitely check it out.
QuoteRecognize we're both talking about our own opinions here - but I always felt rolling a bunch of d6's in WEG SW and adding them up was no big deal. But in Edge - I think is ridiculously easy. You're barely adding anything up, once you factor in the negations. The only reason other dice exist is to delineate - Skill (d12's) Environmental (d6) and that's it. I found rolling a pile of dice in either game to be eh, but in terms of outcomes, I discovered Edge's take on using the dice for specific reasons is pretty cool. I certainly didn't find it intrusive. I found the system to created very cinematic play welded solidly to the mechanics.
Obviously this is one of those "hate it or love it" games; that's all I can say. However, I'll still maintain that for casual gamers (like people who'd never be caught dead playing D&D but will join a SW game just because it's SW) d6 is the way to go.
Quote from: tenbones;857304But in Edge - I think is ridiculously easy. You're barely adding anything up, once you factor in the negations. The only reason other dice exist is to delineate - Skill (d12's) Environmental (d6) and that's it. I found rolling a pile of dice in either game to be eh, but in terms of outcomes, I discovered Edge's take on using the dice for specific reasons is pretty cool. I certainly didn't find it intrusive. I found the system to created very cinematic play welded solidly to the mechanics.
My kids like it, and the five-year-old likes to "play the game too" by watching the rolls and loudly announcing "ooooh, DESPAIR!" and giggling while we work out what effect it has...
"sorry sweetie, but your stolen-and-customised Storm Trooper rifle overloaded and blew apart in your hand!"
Quote from: IggytheBorg;856794My group and I never looked too seriously at any of the Star Wars RPG's as they came out. We were lucky enough to find the time for AD&D and DC Heroes. As a consequence, we know almost nothing about them. Maybe because the new movie's coming out, we are considering starting a Star Wars RPG. What are your thoughts on the various versions? Which one did you like best, and why?
I liked WEG but my memories are a bit hazy. The Saga edition was a good RPG system and streamlined in some important ways over the original d20 edition.
I have not tried the FFG edition but this review gave me the impression that it takes a bit of TLC to tune it: http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/37670/roleplaying-games/review-star-wars-force-and-destiny
But opinions definitely vary
Quote from: Brad;857361Obviously this is one of those "hate it or love it" games; that's all I can say. However, I'll still maintain that for casual gamers (like people who'd never be caught dead playing D&D but will join a SW game just because it's SW) d6 is the way to go.
I hear you!
I was rummaging around my WEG SW collection last night because of this thread. It's positively glorious. And I'd forgotten about the Journals! Those had a lot of kickassery going on. The whole line is inspired.
I mean did WEG leave *anything* out? To the contrary - they were the ones that expanded the Star Wars universe to it's fullest potential. (minus a lot of the shitty novesl).
Quote from: tenbones;857460I hear you!
I was rummaging around my WEG SW collection last night because of this thread. It's positively glorious. And I'd forgotten about the Journals! Those had a lot of kickassery going on. The whole line is inspired.
I mean did WEG leave *anything* out? To the contrary - they were the ones that expanded the Star Wars universe to it's fullest potential. (minus a lot of the shitty novesl).
I used to collect those Journals. I got in late, but I remember details about a planet named Sirocco (I think) and young 'space pirate' prince. And ironically enough, that planet is listed in the FFG stuff.
WEG did a lot of cool stuff that other Star Wars games still use to this day.
Quote from: IggytheBorg;856794My group and I never looked too seriously at any of the Star Wars RPG's as they came out. We were lucky enough to find the time for AD&D and DC Heroes. As a consequence, we know almost nothing about them. Maybe because the new movie's coming out, we are considering starting a Star Wars RPG. What are your thoughts on the various versions? Which one did you like best, and why?
Savage Worlds Deluxe, Explorer's Edition if you want. Seriously, it's got everything you need for Star Wars, only with the serial numbers filed off.
That said, if you only want to know about licensed editions, I was in an EotE game for a while and many of the ideas were good. Making a character was fine and fun, the weapons and armor lists decent, etc. The fact that you could play a droid using essentially the same rules was wonderful as well. However, I personally loathed the dice, and the system around them. I felt it was needlessly complex, slowed things way down, and made every action feel too random, along with, as an example, having to come up with some explanation for why you nailed the stormtrooper, but fell on your face while doing it because you rolled weird.
I remember liking the various D6 editions but never ran or played them. I also generally liked the D20 stuff for what it was, but I think class/levels are a generally bad fit for Star Wars even though EotE was OK with how it handled it's "classes."
Prior to finding Savage Worlds, I'd have run Star Wars using Gurps, BESM, or Fudge depending on the day.
I believe there's some damn nice Savage Worlds home-brewed SW up on their forums. Savage Worlds is a fun system! It could do SW very easily (and probably better than EotE if it had some real support).
Quote from: tenbones;857542I believe there's some damn nice Savage Worlds home-brewed SW up on their forums. Savage Worlds is a fun system! It could do SW very easily (and probably better than EotE if it had some real support).
I actually used Savage Worlds for my Star Wars campaign a few years ago. I did my own homebrew version and finished it right before Pinnacle announced they were releasing a Scifi Companion, which would have made my life a lot easier. The system worked really well, though I would have made some changes if I had to do it all over again.
Quote from: tenbones;857101In reference to the dice... yeah that was my biggest hurdle. Then I used'em... eh, pretty easy.
Yeah, I ran the Force and Destiny Beginner box for my ADD son and one of my players, and we were rolling (no pun intended) with the new dice by the second or third set of die rolls. Super easy.
How in the Hell anyone looks at the reams of fiddly skills lists of D6 or modifiers all over the d20 versions (and I loved the Saga Edition) and thinks this one is the complicated one amazes me.
Now, if you want to decry this one for being the "story game", then I guess you can do that (though it's not really one).
My son loved it, but told me he wanted to make a character next time instead of a pregen, so I wound up with the Force and Destiny core a week later (with Age of Rebellion arriving tomorrow...they need to reprint Edge of the Empire soon).
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;857557How in the Hell anyone looks at the reams of fiddly skills lists of D6...
Because no one in their right mind starts out playing WEG's D6 by using reams of fiddly skill lists. Those lists get created by completists who use 10 years of published materials.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;856932I'm about ready to get off my ass and get a new group together, and was noodling around the idea of a Star Wars campaign, (that or 5th ed) and I'm finding that the FFG system gets a huge range of reactions from "Yuck!" to "Super neato!" which makes my decision to get into the game or not all the harder.
A. Dice rolls need numerical modifiers.
B. Dice rolls are pass/fail.
If you think rolling dice means one of both of those, FFG SW is not for you.
Quote from: tenbones;856985Care to elaborate?
I'm a pretty demanding GM when it comes to my sniff-test on roleplaying. I detested D&D4e as being exactly what you assert FFG's SW to be even if I'm being a dash hyperbolic. I liken 4e as Talisman on steroids. The reality is I *could* make it work... but I'd never like it due to its constraints.
Found that strange. DnD4e had more allotted space in the rule book given over to talking about 'roleplaying' than the previous editions, yet somehow it seems to be the edition where people supposedly did less roleplaying.
Quote from: Sommerjon;857613Found that strange. DnD4e had more allotted space in the rule book given over to talking about 'roleplaying' than the previous editions, yet somehow it seems to be the edition where people supposedly did less roleplaying.
The issue is all the mechanics, it's all obviously unified (as opposed the other editions, which also were, but aren't as obviously), which apparently very few people actually read past.
My personal issue with 4e (and this is just me) is that each class feels very hyper-focused. Not to mention that it chopped the Fighter class in two, and gave all the good parts to a misnamed cheerleader that everyone ended up loving. The other half got turned into a very good ambulatory roadblock.
However, roleplaying was never an issue when I ran it. We did a lot of that when I ran it.
Quote from: Brand55;857543I actually used Savage Worlds for my Star Wars campaign a few years ago. I did my own homebrew version and finished it right before Pinnacle announced they were releasing a Scifi Companion, which would have made my life a lot easier. The system worked really well, though I would have made some changes if I had to do it all over again.
dang. I need to pick up that Sci-Fi companion now...
Quote from: Sommerjon;857613A. Dice rolls need numerical modifiers.
B. Dice rolls are pass/fail.
If you think rolling dice means one of both of those, FFG SW is not for you.
I don't understand. FFG SW is both of these. They don't *have* to be but by default usually are. But that's depending on your GM. Which is the inverse of...
Quote from: Sommerjon;857613Found that strange. DnD4e had more allotted space in the rule book given over to talking about 'roleplaying' than the previous editions, yet somehow it seems to be the edition where people supposedly did less roleplaying.
This... which yes, you can roleplay your ass off with 4e if you want to. But that's up to your GM to support in-game. By the mechanics of the game alone, it "feels" like you just swarm encounters and beat up monsters and take their loot. There's not a lot of non-combat options in the 4e ruleset. Just like I could technically make a game of chess be a roleplaying experience, I'm merely pointing out that mechanically it doesn't feel very well supported.
FFG does all of that. So does WEGd6. But as with all RPGs (and chess) your mileage may vary.
Quote from: tenbones;857658dang. I need to pick up that Sci-Fi companion now...
It's great for handling ships (which would have been my main use for it), plus it has the latest rules on species creation. It's not perfect, but it's a big help if you're gonna run any sort of space opera game in that system. I combined it with some stuff from the first Super Powers Companion to make Jedi since my group was okay with Force-users who are mechanically narrowly focused but inherently more powerful than normal folks.
As for the official Star Wars games, I've always wanted to play the original d6 version. My only experience was trying EotE, but I had some players who really didn't like the dice. If I was to ever try another Star Wars campaign, I'd probably either give d6 a shot or rework my Savage Worlds conversion using the newer companions.
I'm a huge fan of FFG SW, and I played the old WEG game. I don't find it all that difficult.
Quote from: tenbones;857660I don't understand. FFG SW is both of these. They don't *have* to be but by default usually are. But that's depending on your GM. Which is the inverse of...
Sorta. Sure FFG SW has this, but not the way most games do.
Quote from: tenbones;857660This... which yes, you can roleplay your ass off with 4e if you want to. But that's up to your GM to support in-game. By the mechanics of the game alone, it "feels" like you just swarm encounters and beat up monsters and take their loot. There's not a lot of non-combat options in the 4e ruleset. Just like I could technically make a game of chess be a roleplaying experience, I'm merely pointing out that mechanically it doesn't feel very well supported.
That would be a group problem not a game problem though.
Do any of the Star Wars RPGs contain a tactical spaceship combat game? Like if you're interested in playing out spaceship battles, and knowing what their relative positions are and having their maneuvers and other decisions matter, so players have to actually do something meaningful to escape star destroyers, or to resolve a dogfight, or to actually play out a fleet combat as Admiral Ackbar and various ship captains?
I know the latest people have a miniatures space game that would do for small ships, but a Star Destroyer would require using something like a full-size speedboat or yacht for a star destroyer...
Quote from: Skarg;857752I know the latest people have a miniatures space game that would do for small ships, but a Star Destroyer would require using something like a full-size speedboat or yacht for a star destroyer...
What you're thinking about is X-Wing. But FFG also put out Star Wars Armada, which is geared toward capital ship battles. The base set contains a victory-class Star Destroyer, a Nebulon-B, a CR90 Corellian Corvette and 10 fighter groups (not to scale).
I don't think it would be easy to mix it up with the RPG, though. You'd basically have to switch games mid-session. Also, capital ships blow up easily in the boardgame, and that could have repercussions in your RPG campaign.
Quote from: Skarg;857752Do any of the Star Wars RPGs contain a tactical spaceship combat game? Like if you're interested in playing out spaceship battles, and knowing what their relative positions are and having their maneuvers and other decisions matter, so players have to actually do something meaningful to escape star destroyers, or to resolve a dogfight, or to actually play out a fleet combat as Admiral Ackbar and various ship captains?
I know the latest people have a miniatures space game that would do for small ships, but a Star Destroyer would require using something like a full-size speedboat or yacht for a star destroyer...
FFG's Star Wars does inside the core books. Can't remember if the WEG's do, but I think it does too. To be honest, my recommendation, is to with either D6 or FFG's, depending on your budget. Both have advantages, both have flaws.
All of the RPGs have starship combat, and there are separate tactical starship games produced by all three publishers as well.
However, if I were to chose one of the RPGs to run tactical starship game it would be WotC's Saga Edition, especially if you add Starships of the Galaxy supplement.
Quote from: Skywalker;857778All of the RPGs have starship combat, and there are separate tactical starship games produced by all three publishers as well.
However, if I were to chose one of the RPGs to run tactical starship game it would be WotC's Saga Edition, especially if you add Starships of the Galaxy supplement.
Saga Edition d20 is what we play here too. I would try WEG d6 Star Wars, but don't own any of the books...
Thanks for all the info and recommendations, all! This thread is a great resource for making sense of all the tons of SW RPG books out there.
My favorite by far was Star Wars D20 Revised.
Ran a SW one shot last week using the WEG 1E rules. I'm in awe at how well the system emulates the genre and the game play is so easy and natural. The rules enhance the action rather than slow it down.
Of the players one was completely new to WEG and the other two had only played a couple of sessions but everyone was fully on board with the game and their characters.
It's a great system and I really like how the non combat optimised characters have every opportunity to shine. One of the players was running a young senatorial and his command skill came in handy on numerous occasions.
Quote from: Skarg;857752Do any of the Star Wars RPGs contain a tactical spaceship combat game? Like if you're interested in playing out spaceship battles, and knowing what their relative positions are and having their maneuvers and other decisions matter, so players have to actually do something meaningful to escape star destroyers, or to resolve a dogfight, or to actually play out a fleet combat as Admiral Ackbar and various ship captains?
I know the latest people have a miniatures space game that would do for small ships, but a Star Destroyer would require using something like a full-size speedboat or yacht for a star destroyer...
Star Warriors for WEG's D6 Star Wars, you can look it up on Boardgamegeek. It's really detailed and is compatible with the RPG (so you can make a detailed simulation of something that happens in your campaign), but it's designed to work on a small scale - a small handful of ships from fighters to stock light freighters. It can also do Star Destroyers, but in a rather abstract manner.
Quote from: Premier;859130Star Warriors for WEG's D6 Star Wars, you can look it up on Boardgamegeek. It's really detailed and is compatible with the RPG (so you can make a detailed simulation of something that happens in your campaign), but it's designed to work on a small scale - a small handful of ships from fighters to stock light freighters. It can also do Star Destroyers, but in a rather abstract manner.
I never found a copy of Star Warriors in print. I wish there was a PDF for sale.