My group and I never looked too seriously at any of the Star Wars RPG's as they came out.  We were lucky enough to find the time for AD&D and DC Heroes.  As a consequence, we know almost nothing about them.  Maybe because the new movie's coming out, we are considering starting a Star Wars RPG.  What are your thoughts on the various versions? Which one did you like best, and why?

The main attractions of the new one by FFG are that it is: a) in print; b) basically complete; and c) highly 'canonical'. That said, I find it overly dense, complex and rules-heavy.

Of the OOP games, I think you would have a hard time arguing seriously that there is something better than WEG's d6 Star Wars. Its main draw backs have to do with the non-canonical elements that crept in over time, and the sprawl of some parts of the system once all the various force-relevant material was published. But the core of the game is tighter, funner and more setting appropriate than any other system I've seen.

The other OOP games had their moment in the sun while they were in print, but I don't feel any of them stand up well over time. They are a bit more D&D-ish and so may appeal to people who have a narrow base of experience with various rpg sytsems. But they are not really better games than FFG or WEG editions.

My experience is limited to the old WEG d6 and the new FFG versions as I never played / GM'ed the D20 or Saga editions. Of the two I like FFG the best, not so much because of the system and dice, more due it being modern, supported and manages to capture the feel much better than WEG, IMHO anyway. I got heavily burned out GM-ing the old WEG system back in the day so that colors my impression of that system quite a lot. I am contemplating buying Force and Destiny in a couple of weeks to have the full set.

Do any Star Wars games have combat systems that _don't_ require players to expect to get shot several times and shrug it off with hit points (which would be more like D&D than Star Wars)? That is, that has some element of say, tactics, that allows you to roleplay blaster combat where you can play in a way that there's some way to avoid getting shot, not just avoid getting killed by being able to survive blaster hits and heal them real quick?

After all, number of times characters got shot:
Han Solo: zero
Luke: shot in the cyber-hand once?
Leia: twice (one by a stun, once in the shoulder, taking both her and Han out of action)
Chewie: zero
C3P0: once - taken out, needed to be rebuilt
R2D2: 3 times, always taken out with one shot.
Vader: took zero effective hits, only "hit" when parrying Han at dinner
Obi-Wan: zero
Greedo: once, killed
Lando: zero
Qui-gon: zero
Mace Windu: zero
Yoda: zero
...

The guys that wrote RQ6 also put out 'unofficial' Star Wars rules, which they quickly pulled but that are still easily obtained... I'm guessing those would be less D&D-ish in regards to shrugging off damage.

As for the 'official' rule sets... I'm a solid fan of the D6 rules... but I'm not the sort to care much about 'canon' if the general feel is right. The group I played with seemed set on re-enacting the first movies but I was really hoping to explore the wider setting and go off the rails a bit.

I like WEG D6 Stars Wars a lot. It's not to say it doesn't have issues, not least among them that I find the rule differences between the different editions and revisions are sort of jumbled in my head. But even with that it still one of most intuitive and accessible systems out there and it was a good fit for Star Wars, at least the original trilogy. Bear in mind my preferences always tends to go towards the simpler systems. I suspect the streamlined "Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game" WEG might be even more to my liking.

My experience with FFG Star Wars was less than positive. As a group we found having to reinterpret practically every dice roll exhausting especially for the GM (fortunately I was just a player). I imagine it get's easier with practice, we never got passed the learning curve. I was also put off by the they was character experience trees were structured, it felt a bit like a computer game.

I have little play experience with Star Wars D20. I picked up the D20 book when it was first released but never got round to reading it properly as it was so dull. How do you make Star Wars dull? The Saga edition seems to have been much better received but I think I may have only played it once so I can't really comment.

I often hear that due to the treatment of Force powers, Saga is the better game for the prequels, WEG for the originals. Make what you will of that.

I am not a D20 fan, but I enjoyed the Star Wars Saga edition, but I am unsure how much of the GM's freeform style was his own or supported by the rules since I only played in his short campaign, but I never bought the book.

I greatly enjoyed the D6 Star Wars, and that game certainly focused on Dodging and not getting shot.

I've played Savage Worlds Star Wars at several different cons with different GMs who homebrewed Star Wars into the SW rules and that's loads of fun IF you have lots of Star Wars toys or minis.

A solid GM at the LA conventions used to run Buffy Star Wars (a prequel campaign over several cons) and I was surprised how well the Buffy system did Star Wars.

The WEG D6 one is best, but I would like a version of it that's even simpler.

The FFG version is absurdly complex. It goes down some kind of deep, deep Asperger's rabbit-hole and parts of it almost read like a deliberate parody of complex RPGs. Maybe I'm on a very different page than most gamers, or maybe I'm just too old a dog for those new tricks, but I'm astonished such a mutant even made it out the gate. What a waste of what had to be a very expensive license.

WEG d6.  And for that matter, get the first edition, not the second or revised second.  It's the best SW game I've seen.

I've never played the latest FFG one, but cursory inspection says "way too FUCKING complicated."

The Star Wars d20 game in all its incarnations stinks worse than ten feet up Jabba the Hutt's ass.  (Many Bothans died to bring us this information.)

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;856879The WEG D6 one is best, but I would like a version of it that's even simpler.

The FFG version is absurdly complex. It goes down some kind of deep, deep Asperger's rabbit-hole and parts of it almost read like a deliberate parody of complex RPGs. Maybe I'm on a very different page than most gamers, or maybe I'm just too old a dog for those new tricks, but I'm astonished such a mutant even made it out the gate. What a waste of what had to be a very expensive license.

You got this right. I own the game and don't regret having it on my shelf, but it is one of those things people will look at in 5 years and say, 'what the fuck were they thinking'? Just too damn many rules.

I have run all of them.

d6 - most comprehensive purely due to longevity. It's a good system, but you'll have to nit-pick between versions. It illustrates a very present dividing line between Force/Non-Force users. The problem is that Force Users are weak at the beginning due to the fact that they have to split their XP between Force skills and "normal" skills. It's not insurmountable, but if your game doesn't go the distance then it can feel unfulfilling unless it's a Jedi-heavy game.

Other than that - I highly recommend it, purely due to the comprehensive amount of content, a tremendous amount of which is still useful in later editions of the game purely for reference.

d20 Saga - I did not like this system. It had some interesting things about it, I just don't think a level/class based D&D style system as presented works well with Star Wars. COULD it work well? Sure, but I'd overhaul a lot of it. If you're going this route, I'd consider retooling Fantasy Craft to make it happen (which I believe they did on the Crafty Games forums and it's pretty badass). Even then - I personally like every other version of Star Wars better.

FFG's - After a very hesitant impulse... I picked up Edge of the Empire. To my utter amazement, I found I loved the game. Contrary to what others have said here, I find absolutely *nothing* complicated about the game. You're rarely having to do complex math, the most you're asked to do is add up and spend Advantages/Threats. Most of the other stuff is simple application of the roll. IF you want to be more interpretive to wring out the "cinematic" stuff - which I recommend, you can definitely take the game to the "next level".

I'll be honest, and I've said this on at least a half-dozen posts, I thought the die-mechanic was janky as fuck. Until I played it. It worked remarkably well for me and I made sure before I committed to the game that I ran combat, melee/ranged vehicle, social stuff, and really tried to break it. But it passed all my sniff-tests with relative flying colors. I did (along with everyone else) discover a couple of bizarro rules issues regarding ship-sensors, all of which have been fixed in errata or in House-rule changes with little issue.

There has been enough time for the game to be out to have a complete Star Wars experience. Anything that is missing flavor-wise you can easily pick up from the D6 game. The Force and Destiny book is pretty fucking badass. Also it needs to be mentioned the quality of these books is the best I've *ever* seen. Mine are sturdy and solid. The interior artwork is *mindblowingly gorgeous*. FFG did not skimp on *anything*.

My BIGGEST criticism is that they rolled the game with rules/gear/additional stuff within their adventures and splats. So trying to figure out how to... say... do a microjump is not in any obvious book. So you need to keep checking the forums for meta-indexes which the awesome community keeps updated.

I need to say FFG's forum community is superb and helpful as well. Very little fighting and bullshittery.

IMO - if you're going to do Star Wars, I'd go Edge of the Empire. But I will never tell someone to not use d6. It's just a damn good game too.

Quote from: Skarg;856801Do any Star Wars games have combat systems that _don't_ require players to expect to get shot several times and shrug it off with hit points (which would be more like D&D than Star Wars)? That is, that has some element of say, tactics, that allows you to roleplay blaster combat where you can play in a way that there's some way to avoid getting shot, not just avoid getting killed by being able to survive blaster hits and heal them real quick?

After all, number of times characters got shot:
Han Solo: zero
Luke: shot in the cyber-hand once?
Leia: twice (one by a stun, once in the shoulder, taking both her and Han out of action)
Chewie: zero
C3P0: once - taken out, needed to be rebuilt
R2D2: 3 times, always taken out with one shot.
Vader: took zero effective hits, only "hit" when parrying Han at dinner
Obi-Wan: zero
Greedo: once, killed
Lando: zero
Qui-gon: zero
Mace Windu: zero
Yoda: zero
...

FFG's Star Wars line is perfect for this.  But...  You need special dice and it can get a bit rules heave at the start...

And Tenbones gets it in before I do.

Quote from: tenbones;856903FFG's - After a very hesitant impulse... I picked up Edge of the Empire. To my utter amazement, I found I loved the game. Contrary to what others have said here, I find absolutely *nothing* complicated about the game. You're rarely having to do complex math, the most you're asked to do is add up and spend Advantages/Threats. Most of the other stuff is simple application of the roll. IF you want to be more interpretive to wring out the "cinematic" stuff - which I recommend, you can definitely take the game to the "next level".

I'm about ready to get off my ass and get a new group together, and was noodling around the idea of a Star Wars campaign, (that or 5th ed) and I'm finding that the FFG system gets a huge range of reactions from "Yuck!" to "Super neato!" which makes my decision to get into the game or not all the harder.

Quote from: Skarg;856801Do any Star Wars games have combat systems that _don't_ require players to expect to get shot several times and shrug it off with hit points (which would be more like D&D than Star Wars)? That is, that has some element of say, tactics, that allows you to roleplay blaster combat where you can play in a way that there's some way to avoid getting shot, not just avoid getting killed by being able to survive blaster hits and heal them real quick?

After all, number of times characters got shot:
Han Solo: zero
Luke: shot in the cyber-hand once?
Leia: twice (one by a stun, once in the shoulder, taking both her and Han out of action)
Chewie: zero
C3P0: once - taken out, needed to be rebuilt
R2D2: 3 times, always taken out with one shot.
Vader: took zero effective hits, only "hit" when parrying Han at dinner
Obi-Wan: zero
Greedo: once, killed
Lando: zero
Qui-gon: zero
Mace Windu: zero
Yoda: zero
...

Now go back and count the number of times the characters were nearly hit. That is part of D&Ds HP system. Avoiding getting hit, wearing down endurance and luck. HP works fine in Star Wars.

But a HPless system is fine. Though often whatever is in its place boils down to the same thing. Something wearing down and you drop.

Quote from: Omega;856935Now go back and count the number of times the characters were nearly hit. That is part of D&Ds HP system. Avoiding getting hit, wearing down endurance and luck. HP works fine in Star Wars.

Dress it up however you want, some people just prefer a game where Han Solo and a Rancor don't have the same hit points, wound levels, or whatever one calls them.