I strongly recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Cartoon-History-Universe-Vol-Pt-1/dp/0385265204

for a great overview of early human cultures, and the cultural changes that came with various new technologies (farming, domestication, bronze, etc). It covers up through Alexander, so you get discussion of Ancient Greek, Sumerian, and Egyptian culture as well.

Quote from: Kiero;585343This is a long time before Netheril, and indeed one of the reasons I chose it is that it pre-dates the existence of elves or dwarves on Toril (dragons don't exist yet, and the giants aren't really around either). This allows a genuine departure from all the Tolkeinesque themes into something properly sword and sorcery, where there's humans and other, and all the PCs are human.

There's no elves or dwarves to have empires; the only empire is a fallen reptilian one (with a smaller, but still powerful successor state in the hands of the yuan-ti).

Returning to a point above, one of the main areas becomes Maztica - ie D&D Aztec empire with the serials filed off.

Oh ho, this is interesting! No one but the Yuan Ti and humans? That changes things considerably.

Total screwball idea, but what about parallels to Gorka Morka? Humans revering the green skins because they are so technologically advanced that they paint their face green and try to adopt some of their ways. Yuan Ti are definitely alien, but humanoid enough for opposable digits and the complexities of actual language. Humans would obviously try to pick up anything useful and might even idolize them.

Quote from: Kiero;585343I'm trying not to pre-suppose too much, which is why such a broad opening scope. I want to develop a lot of this in discussion with my players, rather than turn up with a near-complete setting.

But some of the key things I have in mind:

• All the PCs are stone age humans; I expect most will be from hunter-gatherer tribes and have that sort of "barbarian" theme to them.
• The primary conflict is with the remnant of the Sarrukh Empire, which was reptilian. Their ruins are probably all over the place, but there won't be any dungeon-delving.
• The Sarrukh remnant raids human lands for slaves (who are also food); their technological superiority and use of magic means they are often the dominant ones.
• I'm vaguely imagining the game to be centred around some sort of raid into Sarrukh lands or else driving them out of the PC's homelands. Or perhaps overthrowing some reptilian despot who's set themselves up as tyrant over a large number of humans.
• Humans don't have arcane magic, ie no human mages/sorcerors. Arcane magic is the evil stuff the reptilians use.
• There's a world of spirits/little gods that humans are involved with and is probably the source of their magic.
• All that said, I'm aiming for a much lower level of magic than is D&D-standard. No magic items for one (at least the humans don't have any).
• Big (otherwise natural) animals are a threat. Cave bears, saber-toothed tigers, big wolves, giant apes and so on.

I wonder if Meso-America might be a good source to draw heavily upon to avoid the usual fantasy European-isms?

Meso-America wouldn't be a good source to draw from; it's way too advanced for your parameters.

What you want is a scattered low population of hunter gatherers barely able to glean a living off of the land, not having mastered their environment to sustain a real resistance.

The best you could do is perhaps some pattern off of Siberian, Northern Territories arctic nomads, or even older, the San of the Kalahari. You'd get Shamans, small nomadic populations, and a heavy cap on tech development/spread. But you'd also have to lose most of their advanced boats and harpoons (you'll still have nets, gaffs, spears, and fishhooks). You'll have complex relations with nucleic family-clan groups. If you do have war, it generally will have more ceremonial fighting involved, an abstracted method to count victory (instead of outright genocide or conquest), and survivor repayment for any lives lost to prevent further retaliation.

Perhaps the magic of the Sarrukh and the humans could be different, but along some more strongly thematised lines than the usual (and IMO lackluster) Cleric/M.U..
Say, being reptilians and slavers, the Sarrukh spell list could revolve around illusions, control, terror and mental domination. In contrast, human magic - probably shamanic in nature? - could be more physical and play to the primal elements and warm-blooded vigour: fire and ice magic, the aid of mammalian animals, hope, temporary enhancement of physical ability, etc..

Quote from: Opaopajr;585730Oh ho, this is interesting! No one but the Yuan Ti and humans? That changes things considerably.

Total screwball idea, but what about parallels to Gorka Morka? Humans revering the green skins because they are so technologically advanced that they paint their face green and try to adopt some of their ways. Yuan Ti are definitely alien, but humanoid enough for opposable digits and the complexities of actual language. Humans would obviously try to pick up anything useful and might even idolize them.

Not quite. Within the reptilian empire, the yuan-ti are merely top of the pile of a multi-racial mix of other reptilians - lizard men, troglodytes, etc. There are also other "creator races" about, some avian, another amphibian, another fey.

But none of those are really relevant here, because I'm focusing on human v reptile.

Quote from: Opaopajr;585730Meso-America wouldn't be a good source to draw from; it's way too advanced for your parameters.

What you want is a scattered low population of hunter gatherers barely able to glean a living off of the land, not having mastered their environment to sustain a real resistance.

The best you could do is perhaps some pattern off of Siberian, Northern Territories arctic nomads, or even older, the San of the Kalahari. You'd get Shamans, small nomadic populations, and a heavy cap on tech development/spread. But you'd also have to lose most of their advanced boats and harpoons (you'll still have nets, gaffs, spears, and fishhooks). You'll have complex relations with nucleic family-clan groups. If you do have war, it generally will have more ceremonial fighting involved, an abstracted method to count victory (instead of outright genocide or conquest), and survivor repayment for any lives lost to prevent further retaliation.

I could see those types of hunter-gatherers on the fringe, in the borderlands between the reptiles and the area populated by humans. But further away where humans might be able to develop their own civilisations, there's nothing wrong with things being more advanced.

Well I was thinking of making a fantasy Australia out of FR's continent of Osse, and planned to use various reptile folks to supplant the other humanoid races. (I also planned for a Dingo and Taz Devil based "goblinoid" races.) But I also planned to make non-metal based advanced human societies as the predominant PCs. So it sounds like a thought is among the ether and we're both coming to a similar creative point independently.

I'm making nomadic, densely urban, social egalitarian, vegetarian, eco-friendly, sorta high-tech Aboriginal societies. And their material foundations (their "[Material] Age" if you will) are something that will leave little archaeological trace, essentially being decomposable. Do you have an idea where you want your dials to generally lean towards on any of these factors? Doing so could help you and your players brainstorm setting creation faster.

Many good posts in this thread. I would reiterate that magic needs to be scaled way back or it acts as a substitute for technology and no more stone age feel. I'd immediately rule out most spell where the material components are post Neolithic.

"Attack spell need rock! Young one, give me."
"No, not that one. The dusty looking one. The one good for sharp cutting rock."
"Yeah, but need be round. This has chip in it. You careless with rocks."
"No, not that one. That from beach! Need round river rock."
"Bigger! That's pebble rock! That for just-for-looks big big fire."
"Oh forget it, just throw rocks at lizard man. It faster."

Quote from: Premier;585734Perhaps the magic of the Sarrukh and the humans could be different, but along some more strongly thematised lines than the usual (and IMO lackluster) Cleric/M.U..
Say, being reptilians and slavers, the Sarrukh spell list could revolve around illusions, control, terror and mental domination. In contrast, human magic - probably shamanic in nature? - could be more physical and play to the primal elements and warm-blooded vigour: fire and ice magic, the aid of mammalian animals, hope, temporary enhancement of physical ability, etc..

A nice idea, but I'm not about to rewrite the entire magic system to accomodate this. Simplicity is the order of the day.

Quote from: Fiasco;586116Many good posts in this thread. I would reiterate that magic needs to be scaled way back or it acts as a substitute for technology and no more stone age feel. I'd immediately rule out most spell where the material components are post Neolithic.

I'm not using D&D of any edition, so components aren't a terribly relevant disciminator for spells.

In any case, the real means of magic acting as a substitute for technology is where there is common arcane magic and investment of it into items is easy and/or there are long-term effects possible.