Just finished reading the entire book. Last year I ran the "Death House" adventure for a Halloween-inspired game, along with a bit of the village of Barovia. It didn't quite work. I'm going to skip the castle and Strahd, and focus on the campaign setting as a whole.
Warning: Long, and possible spoilers.
Horror?
I don't think horror works for RPGs. One factor is that the characters are usually quite powerful. Another is the mindset of the PCs. When I ran the intro adventure, one player (probably unintentionally) kept breaking the mood with jokes, silly voices, and generally acting the clown. I'm torn on the issue: should the GM put a stop to it? Or, if the other players seem Ok with it, is it a sign they'd rather do something else? I assumed the latter, which is why it never got beyond the intro. There were some nice atmospheric trappings in DH, but in general it didn't seem very scary. CoS has excellent advice on how to run a gothic game, called "Masks of Horror." One of the main elements it cites is dread, the anticipation that something horrible is going to happen in the near future. I don't think CoS really does much in that regard; the underlying premise of D&D is working against it. Players are not anticipating a dark fate, they are antiicpating getting magic items and leveling up.
Sandbox vs Story
The common opinion is that CoS is a sandbox game, which is mostly right. It's definitely not a story, a pre-ordained narrative that the players watch unfold. Yet there is a story in CoS, namely the story of how Strahd became a vampire and conquered Barovia. But it's pretty thin and doesn't impact much. At first I was afraid there was a railroad built in, since one of the NPCs is the reincarnation of Strahd's love interest, which drives his actions through the campaign. If you've seen the Dracula movie wth Keannu Reeves (1992) it's bascially that. I don't know if that was in the original Ravenloft module from 1983, or if was worked in later. At any rate, it doesn't really matter if you protect Ireena or ignore her, so I'm going to say No Railroad. On the other hand, I'm not sure this is a pure sandbox, more like a sandbox with game elements.
CoS as a Game
In the introduction, it says "the adventure ends when either Strahd or the characters are defeated. Your goal is to keep Strahd in play for as long as possible, using all of the resources at his disposal." That almost sounds like text in a boardgame rulebook: "You win the game if..." I find it a bit refreshing, actually. In the last few decades the emphasis has been on the RP side of RPG rather than the G, which is fine, but what if we switched that around a bit? Could CoS be played like a game, with the players whittling away at Strahd's troops until he can no longer hide behind his minions? Maybe, but it's really not set up that way. For example, there are monster entries for tree blights and zombies that seem more like spawning monsters in a computer game rather than finite resources. I think next time I run this, I will prepare a list of everything in Strahds's army before the campaign begins, and cross things off the list as the PCs kill them.
Elves and Dwarves?
CoS has a great intro by Tracy Hickman, Strahd's creator. When he saw the vampire entry in the Monster Manual, he thought "What is this guy doing here?" and hence he created Ravenloft. I've always felt the converse of that was true as well: What are Tolkien-esuqe races doing in a game of gothic horror? It leads me to think that CoS would be best run as a humans-only game. Hickman's premise is that the PC's are spirited away from D&D Land to Barovia, and they can't get back home until they kill Strahd. This reinforces the "game" idea: If you win the game, you get to go home.
The Good
The Abbey is probably the most horrific location in the book, a masterpiece of mood and imagery. In second place is a windmill inhabited by three hags who make mincemeat pies out of kidnapped children, that they sell back to the villagers. One adventure interacts heavily with the others called "The Wizard of Wines," which is soemthing the PCs can get invested in quickly. The Amber Temple stands out as the apex of the campaign, since it's where Strahd made his pact with the dark powers. Best of all, they're still there, so PC's can make their own dark bargains. All of the 5E campaign books I have seen have phenomenal art, even if the clothing and architecture looks more like the 1800's than the middle ages.
The Bad
I don't understand how the economy is supposed to work in CoS. I'm not talking about the standard suspension of the laws of economics present in D&D Land, but rather the immediate problem of selling loot. The book lists objects like "Silverware, worth 25 GP" but there's really nowhere to sell the stuff and no one to buy it. Sixty percent of the residences in the village of Barovia are either abandoned, filled with rats, or zombies. Barovians "aren't interested in speaking to strangers" and there's only one shop, with a ridiculous markup and an unfriendly proprietor. It feels like the village infrastructure is gone, like the village is an urban wasteland. That's great atmosphere, but if you can't sell loot, there's no point in looting. The other not-so-great element is the sandbox needs more hints on how to run it. Other than opening with Death House, and finishing with confrotning Strahd, it's not clear how you are suppose to handle the in-between. The whole thing runs the risk of being a linear slog rather that a world that responds and adapts to what the PCs do.
Verdict
I give it a B. I wish it had more Grimm-like elements (like the windmill.) A few of the locations (Argnvostholt, The Tower, Tsolenka Pass) seem like standard D&D fare, which is missed potential. If I run it again, I'm going to increase the level of commerce in the village a bit, and have the tavern be a nexus for adventure hooks. I'd encourage the PCs to set up a base of operations in the village, where they could plan excursions and return if things got too much. The viillage would get better or worse depending on what they managed to accomplish.
Nice review.
Quote from: Aglondir;1108844I don't think horror works for RPGs. One factor is that the characters are usually quite powerful. Another is the mindset of the PCs.
Not all RPGs are D&D though... there are plenty without that fast build toward superhero PCs. OR you could just slow D&D's leveling waaaay down. First level can be plenty scary.
Also, horror doesn't work if the audience isn't receptive... I wouldn't try anything spooky if I knew the Players, any of them really, were just aiming to murderhobo their way through, as usual.
Really though, I think I'd rather run Ravenloft with something like WFRP or Stormbringer/Magic World... or Classic Call of Cthulhu.
Still, a good review.
Quote from: Aglondir;1108844I don't think horror works for RPGs.
It can sort of work if the PCs are ordinary people in a one-shot. Normally it's just a horror-themed adventure game.
Quote from: S'mon;1108860It can sort of work if the PCs are ordinary people in a one-shot. Normally it's just a horror-themed adventure game.
It can work with D & D just fine, if the goal is to enjoy playing a game with other people. If the goal is to maximize all of your cool gadgets and powers, in order to slay monsters and accumulate stuff as efficiently as possible; well that is D & D, but it may not be fun for everyone.
I can say with 100% certainty that some people will find CoS is genuine horror and f'ing scary, if done well. Because we've been playing through it. And it gave me f'ing nightmares! Our DM is superb. He's making some changes as he goes. But the base material is all there in the book. With the right lighting, and music, and descriptions, and DM, it's genuine good horror.
As Players we've gone from "Let's get some treasure" to "This place is so messed up we need to take over just to help people" to "We need to find a way out of this place because this is hell and everyone is doomed and the best we can offer them is alcohol to drown their sorrows."
Quote from: Razor 007;1108846Nice review.
Thanks!
Quote from: S'mon;1108860It can sort of work if the PCs are ordinary people in a one-shot. Normally it's just a horror-themed adventure game.
That was my take on CoS, horror-themed rather than horror.
Quote from: Simlasa;1108856Not all RPGs are D&D though... there are plenty without that fast build toward superhero PCs. OR you could just slow D&D's leveling waaaay down. First level can be plenty scary.
Also, horror doesn't work if the audience isn't receptive... I wouldn't try anything spooky if I knew the Players, any of them really, were just aiming to murderhobo their way through, as usual.
Really though, I think I'd rather run Ravenloft with something like WFRP or Stormbringer/Magic World... or Classic Call of Cthulhu.
Still, a good review.
Thanks! I agree with you 100%. I've been considering using 3E's Expedition to Castle Ravenloft with 3.5 E6 rules (max level = 6) to keep HP low. But I doubt they would ever be abe to defeat Strahd. On the other hand I might just create my own gothic campaign, using parts of CoS as inspriation.
Quote from: Aglondir;1109018Thanks! I agree with you 100%. I've been considering using 3E's Expedition to Castle Ravenloft with 3.5 E6 rules (max level = 6) to keep HP low. But I doubt they would ever be abe to defeat Strahd. On the other hand I might just create my own gothic campaign, using parts of CoS as inspriation.
I recall playing Ravenloft as a WFRP2e adventure reset into Sylvania. We had characters with 2,000-2,500 XP each and one of us had an enchanted sword (something like +10 WS, +1 damage) but it wasn't my character. The game was very deadly and the fear & terror rules combined with the feel of Warhammer made it much more atmospheric than it was when I played I6 in AD&D1e.
Quote from: Aglondir;1109018Thanks! I agree with you 100%. I've been considering using 3E's Expedition to Castle Ravenloft with 3.5 E6 rules (max level = 6) to keep HP low. But I doubt they would ever be abe to defeat Strahd. On the other hand I might just create my own gothic campaign, using parts of CoS as inspriation.
Perhaps you could raise the ceiling to E8? Access to 4th level spells, and a little higher HP.
Quote from: Razor 007;1109039Perhaps you could raise the ceiling to E8? Access to 4th level spells, and a little higher HP.
That might work, since Expedition (3.5) is for levels 6 to 10.
Quote from: Aglondir;1108844Just finished reading the entire book. Last year I ran the "Death House" adventure for a Halloween-inspired game, along with a bit of the village of Barovia. It didn't quite work. I'm going to skip the castle and Strahd, and focus on the campaign setting as a whole.
Sandbox vs Story
The common opinion is that CoS is a sandbox game, which is mostly right. It's definitely not a story, a pre-ordained narrative that the players watch unfold. Yet there is a story in CoS, namely the story of how Strahd became a vampire and conquered Barovia. But it's pretty thin and doesn't impact much. At first I was afraid there was a railroad built in, since one of the NPCs is the reincarnation of Strahd's love interest, which drives his actions through the campaign. If you've seen the Dracula movie wth Keannu Reeves (1992) it's bascially that. I don't know if that was in the original Ravenloft module from 1983, or if was worked in later. At any rate, it doesn't really matter if you protect Ireena or ignore her, so I'm going to say No Railroad. On the other hand, I'm not sure this is a pure sandbox, more like a sandbox with game elements.
To answer your question no. This was not in the original. In the original is pretty bare bones in terms of backstory, as far as the players are concerned Strahd is just a vampire with a castle whom may have once been the lord of a nearby town. It's been awhile since I looked through my old Ravenloft stuff but I think most of the backstory was added in the campaign setting and the novels.
The reincarnated love thing is in I6, but only one of the Strahd possible motivation results from the fortune deck pushes it to the foreground. It's a pretty dumb 'Endless Love' plan and I'd want to come up with something different instead.
Great summary of CoS.
I love the idea of writing down Strahd's army beforehand, but he also must play cleverly - not throwaway random encounters whe he notices that the PCs are tough!
Well, there is some horror in my CoS camapign; PCs are pretty afraid of Strahd, and there are a few moments of genuine terror (the empty crib got my players tense...).
Curiously enough, I LIKE sandbox, but CoS is MISSING a clear storyline, IMO (let me repeat that for people who will read "storyline" and recoil: I like sandboxes, and emerging story etc.)
And this is the most likely storyline to "emerge" from CoS, IMO:
Act I
- PCs enter Barovia and learn they are in a bad spot.
- A few random encounters convince them that it's hard to travel and it's better to sleep somewhere safe.
- PCs crack a few heads, gain a few allies and items, and now random encounters get easy.
Act II
- PCs get SOME of Sthrad's attention, as a minor nuisance or playthings. They might get invited to the castle, but maybe sthrad is not even there.
- PCs encounter Strahd or some powerful minion (not hunting for them yet), and get beaten, badly. If they don't run, some or all of them will get killed (if TPK, then... the end. Or they get back through dark powers).
- PCs cannot beat Sthrad, but they find out that by defeating Strahd's allies, Strahd loses part of his grasp upon the land, and gets weaker ** (alternatively, they save Irina in Krezk).
- PCs get some success. NOW they have Sthrad's attention.
Act III
- Random encounters are different now. Strahd's allies are out to get the PCs, and they know the PCs are tough.
- The PCs realize their only chance is direct conflict. Defeat all the druids by taking Yester hill, defeat all werewolves in their lair, etc. After that, no more druids or werewolves to fight - they just run away.
- The stakes get higher and higher until the PCs decide to confront Strahd. If they don't, well, he might try to regroup, etc.
EPILOGUE: defeat dark powers, Strahd rises again, etc.
** This is the main point that is missing. The alternative seems to be "the PCs must get enough levels and magic items to defeat Strahd". I am okay with the "getting items" part, but the whole idea of PCs going around getting levels to defeat the big boss feel forced and meta-gamey to me.
EDIT: BTW, I think e8 or e10 would work in CoS 5e and I'll probably use that. Players are currentyl 8th level and they "cleared" much of the valley, just killed Rahadin after an intense battle.