So I'm poking at this and...

You know, it seems like it'd be easier just to go with, say, the 4 Basic classes (Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard) and use archetypes to get everything else, plus perhaps a few extra feats and backgrounds to get interesting corners (Feat: Faerie Pact).

Thoughts?

Congradulations, you've just invented WHFRP 1st edition

Where are my royalty checks?

Quote from: Will;795824Where are my royalty checks?

Back in 1986.


Time to scour Ebay for a Delorian.

I like the flavour of all the various classes and individual abilities etc.
It all seems pretty well balanced to me so far, although I've not seen all the classes in action yet and the ones I have seen played, only up to level 5 so far.

I don't really see what's to gain by reducing it all down to 4 classes and build a whole system around it personally.
But that could just be a taste thing I suppose, but it seems like a LOT of work  to me.

Quote from: danskmacabre;795834I like the flavour of all the various classes and individual abilities etc.
It all seems pretty well balanced to me so far, although I've not seen all the classes in action yet and the ones I have seen played, only up to level 5 so far.

I don't really see what's to gain by reducing it all down to 4 classes and build a whole system around it personally.
But that could just be a taste thing I suppose, but it seems like a LOT of work  to me.

Well, one could just pick up Holmes/Mentzer or equivilant retroclone instead.

Quote from: TristramEvans;795822Congradulations, you've just invented WHFRP 1st edition

You would need to change Cleric for Ranger.

Quote from: TristramEvans;795836Well, one could just pick up Holmes/Mentzer or equivilant retroclone instead.

You mean, just play those versions of 5E instead?
If so, sure that's an option, but I think Will wants to still use 5E but heavily mod it.

Quote from: danskmacabre;795842You mean, just play those versions of 5E instead?
If so, sure that's an option, but I think Will wants to still use 5E but heavily mod it.

Ah, well, I'm not familiar enough with 5e's unique mechanics to hazard a thought on that. I can only spoeak of my idealized version of D&D, divorced from specific editions.

Quote from: TristramEvans;795843Ah, well, I'm not familiar enough with 5e's unique mechanics to hazard a thought on that. I can only spoeak of my idealized version of D&D, divorced from specific editions.

I played Basic DnD and ADnD 1st and 2nd Ed quite a lot many years ago.

I didn't bother with DnD 3, 3.5 or 4th ed.
I DID play/Run Pathfinder a fair bit, which is seen as a sort of streamlined 3.5.

5E feels to me like 2nd Ed DnD with a little bit of the feats added in from 3/3.5 .
5E also has a fair few of it's own specific mechanics, many of which are quite nice, such as roll at advantage/Disadvantage etc..

I could see why someone might want to use it because of the unique things 5E has, but changing classes structure like that seems a LOT of work to me.

Quote from: Will;795817So I'm poking at this and...

You know, it seems like it'd be easier just to go with, say, the 4 Basic classes (Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard) and use archetypes to get everything else, plus perhaps a few extra feats and backgrounds to get interesting corners (Feat: Faerie Pact).

Thoughts?

Get rid of cleric its just a type of caster.

Leaves you with
Warrior - master of combat
Rogue - Master of Skills
Magus - master of Magic - give them 5 magic types, Divine, Hermenetic (magic as Science), Summoning (inc pacts etc), Alchemisit and Chi (tapping into inner magical power)

Inside each of the three classes give the DM the ability to tweak a small number of set features for certain backgrounds so the Gladiator figther backgrund gets d12 HP but less skill access. The Ranger archetype gets Wilderness and Stealth skill access. Have about 10 skill lists but about 30 skills that can repeat on ceertain lists (so the Military Skill list gets Heraldry as a skill so does the Noble skill list: the Wilderness Skill list gets athletics so does the Subefude one etc) .

Now you have 3 core classes but an almost infinite range on variation based on a dozen or so knobs you can tweak inside a class to make a custom archetype. You can do this across 2 or more classes to get similar archetypes with a different twist. So in a Pirate game you might have archetypes for Corsair (Warrior), Buccaneer (Rogue) and StormWarden (Magius) all of whom are basically pirates but with a different focus each time.
The advantage is there is no proliferation of class powers with unique mechanics so things stay very lightweight. As DMs control Archetypes and build them for the setting you avoid the min/max risk of class builders etc.  

If you really want class based powers beserk, polymorph, turn undead, etc etc you create them like feats and the DM opens up certain ones to certain archetypes at level steps; A Divine Magus gains a feat at 2nd level and can pick from Turn Undead, Lay on Hands, Detect Evil, Bless, etc...; an Assassin archetype, warrior or rogue might have different balance of HP/skills/combat stuff but get access to the "Feats" backstab, poison, Criminal Subculture etc etc ....

I'm trying to change the rules as little as possible, actually, but I also think the approach of fewer class options might be a fun direction to try.

I'm debating inclusion of cleric. The main problem is that crossing from 4 to 3 classes requires a bigger set or rule changes.

Esthetically I like the idea, functionally.. hrm.

Quote from: Will;795848I'm trying to change the rules as little as possible, actually, but I also think the approach of fewer class options might be a fun direction to try.

I'm debating inclusion of cleric. The main problem is that crossing from 4 to 3 classes requires a bigger set or rule changes.

Esthetically I like the idea, functionally.. hrm.

The only reason that Clerics seem redundant is that arcane and divine magic don't seem very different.  If miracles aren't going to be different from a mage's spells in any significant way, then there's little point to them being different classes.  But a really new magic system would be a major addition in rules.

Well, I'm going to attempt going with 3, and make 'Cleric' an archetype that swaps spell list and spellcasting ability.

Then again, I've always been a little annoyed at clerics being fighter/casters.

Then again again, it occurs to me that one possible reason to HAVE Clerics is to fulfill the martial/caster role.

Some of what I've worked up so far:

Fighter Archetypes
Berserker
You gain the following Barbarian abilities: Rage, Rage per day, Rage Damage, Unarmored Defense.
At 7th level you gain Fast Movement.
At 10th level you gain Relentless Rage.
At 15th level you gain Persistent Rage.
At 18th level you gain Indomitable Might.

Templar
At third level you gain Channel Divinity (treat Fighter levels as Cleric levels) and select a domain. You gain domain abilities as a cleric.
You prepare, learn, and cast spells like an Eldritch Knight, but use the cleric list for cantrips and spells and using Wisdom as spellcasting ability. Unlike Eldritch Knights, you are not limited in schools.
Domain spells are gained when they can first be cast.


This doesn't really cut down on amount of rules, exactly, since you're still referring to barbarian and cleric stuff. But conceptually it simplifies a few things.

(I also am debating ways to do a microlite version of 5e, but that requires a bit different design)