This place is the most inclusive and accepting community I've ever been part of.

[Ratman_tf]

One particular quote from one of the users stood out to me in particular - not for hyperbole or slanderous accusation, but for its dire implications:

So glad I missed this convo, I would've made it a thousand times worse. When it comes to RW OSR influencers like the ones mentioned, I have a lot to say. Instead, I'll just mention the Popper Paradox and point out the well-known fact that the one thing a tolerant community can't tolerate is intolerance, including those who promote it.

"Well known fact"



As pointed out later in this thread, the other edge of Popper's Paradox is that if a community is intolerant of intolerance, then it's intolerant and shouldn't be tolerated.

[Trond]

As far as many of these activist types go, I always thought that this Babylon Bee article really hit the nail on the head:
https://babylonbee.com/news/powerful-protesters-spell-out-love-with-burning-homes-and-businesses/

[FingerRod]

The other thing I like about this place is that you can almost always have a disagreement with somebody and it will not carry over. Most around here are either adult enough or don't give a fuck enough to not let grudges persist.

Like anything there are exceptions, but they are a lot more infrequent around here.

[rytrasmi]

The other thing I like about this place is that you can almost always have a disagreement with somebody and it will not carry over. Most around here are either adult enough or don't give a fuck enough to not let grudges persist.

Like anything there are exceptions, but they are a lot more infrequent around here.

I strongly disagree! (Groan. I'll show myself out.)

FF_Ninja, you hit the nail on the head. The real paradox is that any community that brags about how tolerant it is, probably isn't.

As for the Popper Paradox, I've never understood it. Society is intolerant of many things. We have laws. I'm intolerant of senseless murder. I suppose that makes me a bigot. It seems like a clever word game used to confuse people.

[Tasty_Wind]

If you're not tolerating "intolerance", then are you really tolerating anything at all, or just in a space where everyone agrees with the same thing?

This isn't even a quip or anything, I'm genuinely curious.

[~~]

FF_Ninja, it's decent to cringe against the Popper Paradox but you're missing the key takeaway about the woke paradigm:

The friend-enemy distinction is the atom of all political affiliation, and all ideologies are naturally religious in their bones.

Whatever you think about Carl Schmitt he will never be wrong on that and there's no sense trying to "everyone ought to kumbaya" your way out of it.

[FF_Ninja]

If you're not tolerating "intolerance", then are you really tolerating anything at all, or just in a space where everyone agrees with the same thing?

This isn't even a quip or anything, I'm genuinely curious.

That's the issue. People will establish what they call a "safe space" for the oppressed and marginalized, and those people will feel right at home - baggage they bring along included. Criticism and contrary opinion are viewed as intolerance - or worse, hate speech and bigotry - and are eradicated with extreme prejudice. After a while, the only people left are those that don't rock the kasbah - an echo chamber.

I mostly just described 99% of Reddit.

[FF_Ninja]

FF_Ninja, it's decent to cringe against the Popper Paradox but you're missing the key takeaway about the woke paradigm:

The Friend-Enemy Distinction is the atom of all political affiliation, and all ideologies are naturally religious in their bones.

Whatever you think about Carl Schmitt he will never be wrong and there's no sense trying to "everyone ought to kumbaya" your way out of it.

The sad thing is that the gaming table should be a place where we can put all of that crap aside and engage our fellow man, but some people cannot table their own ideology even for that.

It's unfortunate and a missed opportunity. If the woke actually cared about bringing an end to intolerance, they'd work to bridge the gaps and build on commonalities rather than emphasize conflicts. I've had some very diverse people at my table - diverse in the truest sense of the word, including some people who were openly prejudiced and bigoted. They were allowed at the table because they chose to behave courteously and civilly. In the end, a lot of those prejudices were broken off because those individuals had a chance to actually be okay just to exist. I found out that a lot of the time prejudices and bigotry (in their truer forms) were aggravated, if not caused, by ostracization and abuse - and in the end, the shared experience broke down a lot of walls and barriers.

The woke don't know how to actually bridge gaps and solve prejudices, and in the end only serve to further the divide. All they end up doing is creating more intolerance (on both sides of the fence).

[Mishihari]

...

I'm saying all of that to say this: I am very appreciative of this community. Here I'm able to speak my mind and have civil and engaging discussions. I can express controversial and unconventional opinions and concepts. I'm treated exactly the way I treat people. It doesn't matter what my demographic is, what my political leaning is, what influencer I like or support, what system I use, who I voted for, or how I like my eggs cooked.

So, thanks, everyone. Thanks for this. Thanks.

Welcome!  I enjoy this community for the same reason.  We've got our right wing crazies, our left wing crazies, some that are just crazy, and all the rest.  And yet somehow we manage to have a good time chatting about RPGs online.  I for one kinda like to have people around who disagree with me:  they'll often have perspective on issues of common interest that I lack.

And on the Popper's thing.  It's not really a paradox - it's just hypocrisy.  The wokies tolerate those who agree with them and don't tolerate the rest, just the same as any other intolerant group.  The rest is just a bunch of mental gymnastics and convolutions they use to try to lie to themselves when they're acting directly against they're professed dominant philosophical belief.

[~~]

The sad thing is that the gaming table should be a place where we can put all of that crap aside and engage our fellow man, but some people cannot table their own ideology even for that.

It helps when you've chosen a group from all of mankind that already shares some important values and have a desire to get on with gaming. The woke are not at core very much different, aside from their demands that everyone else must play like themselves and celebrate their politics whenever possible while doing so.

It's unfortunate and a missed opportunity. If the woke actually cared about bringing an end to intolerance, they'd work to bridge the gaps and build on commonalities rather than emphasize conflicts. I've had some very diverse people at my table - diverse in the truest sense of the word, including some people who were openly prejudiced and bigoted. They were allowed at the table because they chose to behave courteously and civilly. In the end, a lot of those prejudices were broken off because those individuals had a chance to actually be okay just to exist. I found out that a lot of the time prejudices and bigotry (in their truer forms) were aggravated, if not caused, by ostracization and abuse - and in the end, the shared experience broke down a lot of walls and barriers.

The woke don't know how to actually bridge gaps and solve prejudices, and in the end only serve to further the divide. All they end up doing is creating more intolerance (on both sides of the fence).

The hypocrisy runs deep. It's tough to ask for "tolerance" from those that preach it when it's otherwise a disingenuous ploy in their historical politics. It's baffling how they can be so enamoured with a country like Japan which had to be militarily bullied out of its isolationism by the English and the Dutch during the age of colonialism, otherwise there'd be no Japanese people in the West to be "diverse" with for the sake of their multiculturalist roleplaying groups and restaurants.

There will always be some mix of good and bad with any people, and while its good to be exposed to new ideas and perspectives, there's just no need to understand the Japanese as some sort of real life magical sea-elf (who certainly don't ever hate the Koreans) that the woke undertakes themselves to worship. I'm happy for your other friends that they shook off such a consuming hatred, that's plain not healthy. I can be hyperbolic myself, but these are the best of worse times.

[Venka]

Ironically enough the Popper Paradox talks about tolerating those who resort to violence, which is the woke and not anyone who opposes them (usually).

There is no Popper paradox.  If a leftist brings up Popper, the entire argument is "everyone should tolerate us no matter how much violence we do, but anyone speaking in opposition is engaging in violence by that speech and should be violently destroyed".  It's not a paradox, it's just "Leftists want a reason to feed anyone who disagrees with them into the woodchipper".

If you actually run in to someone who brings that up and isn't using it as a justification for violence, oppression, blocking free speech, etc, you have two general things you can point towards.  One, you can point out that a king who believes he speaks for God could make the same argument- instead of "the intolerant" leading to the destruction of "the tolerant" (how exactly Popper doesn't go into; the idea that the initiation of force by any party being the dividing line between something being acceptable or not, is not something he seems to have thought of, or more likely, not something he wanted anyone to think about), you could have "the heretical" leading to the destruction of "the orthodox".  Absolutely every point of his argument lines up, and such an argument misses the exact same essential truths as Popper's argument.  It's just a justification to crush those you disagree with.

Two, you can point out that what qualifies as "the intolerant" is actually a sliding scale.  Simply ask the person to point to a group that should, in his view, not be tolerated.  This group can be as vile as he wants.  Then simply point out that the spectrum of beliefs between that point of view and something he agrees with, has valid arguments all the way over.  This should demonstrate that the point of those who use that argument today is simply to justify censorship and violence against whomever they can, and tomorrow, the sliding scale of "what is intolerant" will apply to something else.  If for no other reason than "X leads to Y", where you already agreed Y was an opinion whose expressors needed to be violently oppressed.  This is true for any X, as you can always argue it leads to Y.

It's a garbage non-argument, and has been for nearly a fucking century.

[Ratman_tf]

As for the Popper Paradox, I've never understood it. Society is intolerant of many things. We have laws. I'm intolerant of senseless murder. I suppose that makes me a bigot. It seems like a clever word game used to confuse people.

[Spinachcat]

It destroys any sort of hope for peaceful coexistence,

I consider THAT to be absolutely wonderful. I don't want any form of "peaceful coexistence" with woketards. Tolerating leftist asshats is how we got into the current cultural, political and global shitfest.

[Ghostmaker]

For all the yammering about 'hate site', the rough places can be surprisingly welcoming.

Yeah, we get in each other's faces and argue a lot. A LOT. But funny thing: the only people I've seen banned from here have been for ignoring Pundit specifically saying 'drop it', or in one case for an attempted doxing.

The former is fair enough -- it's Pundit's sandbox, after all -- and the latter, well, that guy was an idiot anyways, lol.

[GhostNinja]

While some of the least accepting and friendly places seem to be the ones that claim to be the most loving and inclusive. In fact, I tend to find that the more "inclusive" a community claims to be, the more homogenous it is and the less accepting it is of anyone or anything that's too different.

Screw you! get lost!

Just kidding 

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