TheRPGSite

A sparrow in dnd has a strength score of 1.

A tiny creature with a strength score of 1 can carry 5 pounds as a heavy load.

Sense sparrows can't carry 5 pounds, this is clearly a place where the rules break down.

As the GM, I should be able to make a judgment call. Sense stats are more important than sparrows in dnd, I'm ruling that sparrows actually have a strength score of 0. Should they suffer a single point of strength damage, they die, just like normal.

This means that my player's badass druid, who summons creatures with a +4 to their strength score, would summon sparrows with a score of 4 in my game instead of 5. This can be a big deal when it comes to dropping things on people or carrying them away.

Now, fellow game masters, did I make the right call or did I throw balance to the wind when I went with my gut? Should I let my druid player have his strength 5 sparrows?

African or European sparrows?  :)

I dunno, man...deviating from the rulebook is sure to ruin someone's fun....

Quote from: Age of Fable;284126African or European sparrows?  :)

You read my mind.   :D


TGA

Quote from: Age of Fable;284126African or European sparrows?  :)

Well, I don't know....boing!


Or...
You are the GM. That is your call to make. If the system has a problem with it, use a giant d20 to smack it upside the head. If it SOOOOOO sensitive that it cannot handle a 1 point drop in super sparrows (either African or European) then I think you are reading way too much into the system. Now, your player of the Druid will be pissy. He wants his STR5 sparrows. He is lucky to have you as the GM. Me, I would tell him tough turdburglers and make his sparrows 0 STR regardless with the simple "Really?!? You want sparrows that can carry a small child away?" then there would be a crack! and he would be mopping blood off the table as I look for my giant d20...

But...think of the sparrow...you're DEPROTAGONIZING THE FUCKING SPARROW!

I've played at Bill's table. He deprotagonized the side of my skull and I have the bruises to prove it.*

I must be a masochist as I keep going back for more. Whatcha doin for Game Day, Bill?




* I am, of course, kidding as I don't give DM's in general and Bill specifically a reason to crack me with the giant d20. We do that away from the table in the "special dungeon" and we use nuts for obvious reasons.

You just have to create a new House Rule:

Avian Carrying Capacity- This is basically the inverse of the quadrupeds carrying capacity rules [PHB p. 162].  

So, as a diminutive sized (assumption, not looking at MM currently) creature it would only be able to carry 2.5 lbs as a heavy load.

Now, you can expand this House Rule by creating special Druid feats so that his summoned creatures could be stronger than normal and carrying heavier loads than normal sparrows.

Or, you could go the quick and easy way like saying sparrows have a STR score of zero, like you already did.

Quote from: James J Skach;284149I've played at Bill's table. He deprotagonized the side of my skull and I have the bruises to prove it.*

I must be a masochist as I keep going back for more. Whatcha doin for Game Day, Bill?

Zombipocalypse: A Day at the Zoo. You are part of a group trying to get out of the ruins of Chicago but first you need to stop at Brookfield Zoo to get a Rhesus Monkey that is supposedly immune. You are trying to make it to a hold out of the National Guard in Des Moines. It will be using the new "The System". I think you might actually like it. I took Karma and instead of being meta it is tied directly to the character through codes and heroics. Also, you only use 3d6....don't know if you will like that part. Should be fun.

Quote from: James J Skach;284149* I am, of course, kidding as I don't give DM's in general and Bill specifically a reason to crack me with the giant d20. We do that away from the table in the "special dungeon" and we use nuts for obvious reasons.

Hey now! We keep our nuts between us...ah, yeah, that didn't sound right...


I LIVE TO DEPROTAGANIZE SPARROWS!!!!!!!

...whatever deprotagonize means...

You made the right call when you went with your gut.

Coming soon, my new book From Bags of Rats to Flocks of Sparrows: How to Break D&D.

BAH ANOTHER PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT FOURTH EDITION IS TOTALLY LAME!

You should play my new fantasy game Swallow the Sparrow where the little details get their due!

Quote from: David Johansen;284171BAH ANOTHER PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT FOURTH EDITION IS TOTALLY LAME!

You should play my new fantasy game Swallow the Sparrow where the little details get their due!

Uhhh...I think CW plays 3.x, IIRC

Quote from: jeff37923;284158You made the right call when you went with your gut.

I agree. Letting your organs go their separate ways is never a good idea.

Quote from: David Johansen;284171BAH ANOTHER PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT FOURTH EDITION IS TOTALLY LAME!

You should play my new fantasy game Swallow the Sparrow where the little details get their due!

Thats 3rd edition, and by the way? Under 3e or 3.5 or presumably Pathfinder.. you are supposed to go by the formula, and the Sparrow would have a strength of 5. Yes, able to carry objects and drop bricks (and presumably flasks of acid or whatever else) on enemies. Under D&D3, the DM is absolutely meant to play by the same rules (including the monster creation formula) as the players. That's how it works, and although not every DM would rule it that way, a sizable percentage would because that allows the players to reliably design their own strategies within the parameters of the rules. The player could legitimately say "I totally bought the whole Enhanced Summoning Feat because I need the summoned sparrow (or bat, or viper) to drop my potion flasks on the enemies!" I'd allow it, personally. That's how the rules work. It's actually a cute strategy for 3e.

Under 4e of course, the DM does not use the same rules as the players and is free to rule otherwise because there is simply no rule covering such a thing. Thanks for playing!

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;284203Thats 3rd edition, and by the way? Under 3e or 3.5 or presumably Pathfinder.. you are supposed to go by the formula, and the Sparrow would have a strength of 5. Yes, able to carry objects and drop bricks (and presumably flasks of acid or whatever else) on enemies. Under D&D3, the DM is absolutely meant to play by the same rules (including the monster creation formula) as the players. That's how it works, and although not every DM would rule it that way, a sizable percentage would because that allows the players to reliably design their own strategies within the parameters of the rules. The player could legitimately say "I totally bought the whole Enhanced Summoning Feat because I need the summoned sparrow (or bat, or viper) to drop my potion flasks on the enemies!" I'd allow it, personally. That's how the rules work. It's actually a cute strategy for 3e.

Under 4e of course, the DM does not use the same rules as the players and is free to rule otherwise because there is simply no rule covering such a thing. Thanks for playing!

Creatures don't have strength in 4e? I must have missed that in my read through. I know when we've played strength has been discussed. What am I missing, AM?

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;284203Thats 3rd edition, and by the way? Under 3e or 3.5 or presumably Pathfinder.. you are supposed to go by the formula, and the Sparrow would have a strength of 5. Yes, able to carry objects and drop bricks (and presumably flasks of acid or whatever else) on enemies. Under D&D3, the DM is absolutely meant to play by the same rules (including the monster creation formula) as the players. That's how it works, and although not every DM would rule it that way, a sizable percentage would because that allows the players to reliably design their own strategies within the parameters of the rules. The player could legitimately say "I totally bought the whole Enhanced Summoning Feat because I need the summoned sparrow (or bat, or viper) to drop my potion flasks on the enemies!" I'd allow it, personally. That's how the rules work. It's actually a cute strategy for 3e.

Under 4e of course, the DM does not use the same rules as the players and is free to rule otherwise because there is simply no rule covering such a thing. Thanks for playing!

I'm not too up on 4e, but in 3e they hadn't totally killed the spirit of the game. (:

In the 2e days the gm was free to ignore all the rules. I feel that I was grandfathered in under that system...

Quote from: The Shaman;284165Coming soon, my new book From Bags of Rats to Flocks of Sparrows: How to Break D&D.

lol nice

Quote from: KenHR;284148But...think of the sparrow...you're DEPROTAGONIZING THE FUCKING SPARROW!

Thanks for the profile signature.

Quote from: James J Skach;284213Creatures don't have strength in 4e? I must have missed that in my read through. I know when we've played strength has been discussed. What am I missing, AM?

Summoned creatures (going by the playtest info and previews in DDI) indeed do not have a strength score in 4e unless it is especially noted; because creatures do not follow the same rules that characters use in 4E (similar to AD&D and Basic D&D in this regard). (Nor is there a feat to boost that strength). Summoned creatures don't even have hit points as far as I can tell. They exist, they carry out attacks (or whatever it is they do- there's one that is specifically designed to carry stuff or break down doors I think- and that particular one *does* have a strength), and they disappear at the end of the encounter.


Example below:


Summon Abyssal Maw
Wizard Attack 5
The air is filled with the sound of gnashing teeth as a voracious creature of the Elemental Chaos appears and chews into anything it can reach.
Daily; Arcane, Implement, Summoning
Minor Action
Ranged 10
Effect: You summon a Medium abyssal maw in an unoccupied square within range. The maw has a speed of 6. You can give the maw the following special commands.
Standard Action: Melee 1; targets one creature; Intelligence vs. Reflex; 2d6 + Intelligence modifier damage.
Opportunity Attack: Melee 1; targets one creature; Intelligence vs. Reflex; 1d8 + Intelligence modifier damage. In addition, if an enemy adjacent to the maw makes a melee attack that does not include the maw as a target, the maw can make an opportunity attack against that enemy after the enemy's attack is resolved.

Note: Where it says Intelligence? It refers to the summoner's intelligence, because the summoner is in control of the creature.

Oh, and also, it just occured to me that unless a sparrow is specifically being statted out as a combatant, it simply doesn't have stats in 4e.

Is that spell reversible? ;-)

Quote from: Stuart;284273Is that spell reversible? ;-)

I'm afraid my summoner is dead, and now I'm here to stay.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;284264Summoned creatures (going by the playtest info and previews in DDI) indeed do not have a strength score in 4e unless it is especially noted; because creatures do not follow the same rules that characters use in 4E (similar to AD&D and Basic D&D in this regard). (Nor is there a feat to boost that strength). Summoned creatures don't even have hit points as far as I can tell. They exist, they carry out attacks (or whatever it is they do- there's one that is specifically designed to carry stuff or break down doors I think- and that particular one *does* have a strength), and they disappear at the end of the encounter.


Example below:


Summon Abyssal Maw
Wizard Attack 5
The air is filled with the sound of gnashing teeth as a voracious creature of the Elemental Chaos appears and chews into anything it can reach.
Daily; Arcane, Implement, Summoning
Minor Action
Ranged 10
Effect: You summon a Medium abyssal maw in an unoccupied square within range. The maw has a speed of 6. You can give the maw the following special commands.
Standard Action: Melee 1; targets one creature; Intelligence vs. Reflex; 2d6 + Intelligence modifier damage.
Opportunity Attack: Melee 1; targets one creature; Intelligence vs. Reflex; 1d8 + Intelligence modifier damage. In addition, if an enemy adjacent to the maw makes a melee attack that does not include the maw as a target, the maw can make an opportunity attack against that enemy after the enemy's attack is resolved.

Note: Where it says Intelligence? It refers to the summoner's intelligence, because the summoner is in control of the creature.

Oh, and also, it just occured to me that unless a sparrow is specifically being statted out as a combatant, it simply doesn't have stats in 4e.

This is actually one of the features in 4e that I appreciate.