Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:21:03 AM

Quote from: Brad on October 19, 2020, 09:32:49 AM

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 02:12:40 AMLet people enjoy games that make them feel comfortable and safe.

Literal fucking LOL at this crap. Jesus Christ you people truly are insane.

Wow. You actually are willing to deride someone who makes a very open and accepting statement that people should play the games that make them feel comfortable and safe???

Why? Do you think that some people are not allowed to be comfortable and safe? Do you think some people are not allowed to enjoy the games they like? I don't understand you motivation, here.

I have played in and run games since 1975 and find it odd that people need specific game rules to feel comfortable and safe. Yes, there are rules sets that might make a person feel uncomfortable or unsafe but D & D, and I don't particularly like D & D works fine for diverse people, as does my own Glory Road Roleplay or GURPS or Traveler. We have almost always had at least one lesbian and more than one gay man in our gaming group.

Still, if the rules make for a fun game, I have no problem with them. 

No one is safe at my table. If someone gets out of line, I'm chucking dice at them.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 01, 2020, 06:05:29 PM
No one is safe at my table. If someone gets out of line, I'm chucking dice at them.

I heard one story about a DM that used to shoot his Players with a pellet gun if their characters got hit in the game.

I guess you could make an RPG that had specific rules about not doing that which would make it "safer"

Is "sword lesbian" an euphemism for "trans woman"?

How come it takes so many people to write a PbtA hack?

Why is the art so goddamn ugly?

So many questions...

I find it bizarre that the same people who need safe spaces flock to highly violent and/or sexualized games that so often touch upon mental illness and self-segregate their chosen victim-group(s) from those they paint as bad. Such social self-flagellation is head scratching, at best.

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:00:43 AM
I have never made a post in any form of my online presence against them. But there is a difference. Those proposing games like RaHoWa and Myfarog have points of view that can cause active harm to others. Tell me what actual physical harm have thirsty lesbians ever threatened upon you?

The authors of Myfarog and Thisrty Sword Lesbians have something in common, they both despise Christians.

Some of the thread posters here seem to be missing a critical point:

You will be made to care.

You will not be given the option to 'live and let live'. You will not be allowed to 'let them play their way'. That's been the crux of this argument for quite some time.

Quote from: jhkim on November 01, 2020, 12:34:21 PM
Psychological harm exists. Consider two boys. One boy gets in a lot of trouble. He gets in some fights, gets beat up, but he learns from it. Another boy never gets into fights. His parents forbid it, and they constantly belittle him, and never let him get into trouble, while never laying a finger on him. I think the second boy may grow up to be far more harmed than the first, with a lot of psychological issues. You can seriously harm someone while never causing them a bit of physical injury. Abusive spouses and cult leaders are other examples of those who cause psychological harm.

Agreed.  The second boy might grow up to identify as a thirsty sword lesbian.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs on November 02, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
I find it bizarre that the same people who need safe spaces flock to highly violent and/or sexualized games that so often touch upon mental illness and self-segregate their chosen victim-group(s) from those they paint as bad. Such social self-flagellation is head scratching, at best.

Isolation is typical behavior of those involved in cults.  The notion that one should not play RPGs with those outside of the cult is real gatekeeping. 

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 04, 2020, 01:31:28 PM
Some of the thread posters here seem to be missing a critical point:

You will be made to care.

You will not be given the option to 'live and let live'. You will not be allowed to 'let them play their way'. That's been the crux of this argument for quite some time.

i agree that is their intent, or some of them. But what are they going to do? Come to my place on game night and say I'm doing it wrong. I don't need the industry as long as I have the hobby.

Quote from: WillInNewHaven on November 04, 2020, 05:13:32 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 04, 2020, 01:31:28 PM
Some of the thread posters here seem to be missing a critical point:

You will be made to care.

You will not be given the option to 'live and let live'. You will not be allowed to 'let them play their way'. That's been the crux of this argument for quite some time.

i agree that is their intent, or some of them. But what are they going to do? Come to my place on game night and say I'm doing it wrong. I don't need the industry as long as I have the hobby.

Naw, they won't sully their minds with your unclean thoughts. But beware if you've got any social media presence. They do love a good dogpile and shaming -- up to and including contacting your employer for your 'bigotry'.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 05, 2020, 07:59:14 AM

Quote from: WillInNewHaven on November 04, 2020, 05:13:32 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 04, 2020, 01:31:28 PM
Some of the thread posters here seem to be missing a critical point:

You will be made to care.

You will not be given the option to 'live and let live'. You will not be allowed to 'let them play their way'. That's been the crux of this argument for quite some time.

i agree that is their intent, or some of them. But what are they going to do? Come to my place on game night and say I'm doing it wrong. I don't need the industry as long as I have the hobby.

Naw, they won't sully their minds with your unclean thoughts. But beware if you've got any social media presence. They do love a good dogpile and shaming -- up to and including contacting your employer for your 'bigotry'.

I don't doubt that they really would like to be able to do that, but let's not give in to paranoid fantasy.  What are they actually going to do?  Kick your door down and confiscate your book collection and hard drives?  If these people really were as powerful as some on this board seem to think, this site wouldn't exist and Pundit wouldn't be nearly as successful as he is.

You are not defenseless against social media dogpiling.  You have options.  Keep your work life and private life separate on social media.  Consider setting your accounts to protected or private for a while.  Consider sticking to discussion boards like the RPGsite or Discord servers that can be gatekept. Embrace the BlockBot.  The most likely ringleaders of these shaming campaigns are known, find their Twitter accounts and run blockbots on all of them to pre-emptively block all of their followers.  You don't owe them access to your social media accounts or your private life.  Try to keep anonymous.

Most of all, do NOT let them move into your head and live there rent free.  Evict their deadbeat asses, live your life and be happy.  If you allow these people to make you as miserable and paranoid as they are, they win.

It's not going to be perfect or fun, but being part of an outcast, marginalized minority never is.

Quote from: Torque2100 on November 05, 2020, 08:37:57 AM

I don't doubt that they really would like to be able to do that, but let's not give in to paranoid fantasy.  What are they actually going to do?  Kick your door down and confiscate your book collection and hard drives?  If these people really were as powerful as some on this board seem to think, this site wouldn't exist and Pundit wouldn't be nearly as successful as he is.

You are not defenseless against social media dogpiling.  You have options.  Keep your work life and private life separate on social media.  Consider setting your accounts to protected or private for a while.  Consider sticking to discussion boards like the RPGsite or Discord servers that can be gatekept. Embrace the BlockBot.  The most likely ringleaders of these shaming campaigns are known, find their Twitter accounts and run blockbots on all of them to pre-emptively block all of their followers.  You don't owe them access to your social media accounts or your private life.  Try to keep anonymous.

Most of all, do NOT let them move into your head and live there rent free.  Evict their deadbeat asses, live your life and be happy.  If you allow these people to make you as miserable and paranoid as they are, they win.

It's not going to be perfect or fun, but being part of an outcast, marginalized minority never is.

Personally, I'd avoid social media like the plague it is.

And while yes, you definitely do NOT want them living in your head, rent free (the old saw about 'the best revenge is just living well' springs to mind here)... don't discount those social dogpiles. Look at Alec Holowka, for example.

I'm not saying 'give up'. I am saying 'know your enemies, and yourself' as Sun Tzu said.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 05, 2020, 08:55:52 AM

Quote from: Torque2100 on November 05, 2020, 08:37:57 AM

I don't doubt that they really would like to be able to do that, but let's not give in to paranoid fantasy.  What are they actually going to do?  Kick your door down and confiscate your book collection and hard drives?  If these people really were as powerful as some on this board seem to think, this site wouldn't exist and Pundit wouldn't be nearly as successful as he is.

You are not defenseless against social media dogpiling.  You have options.  Keep your work life and private life separate on social media.  Consider setting your accounts to protected or private for a while.  Consider sticking to discussion boards like the RPGsite or Discord servers that can be gatekept. Embrace the BlockBot.  The most likely ringleaders of these shaming campaigns are known, find their Twitter accounts and run blockbots on all of them to pre-emptively block all of their followers.  You don't owe them access to your social media accounts or your private life.  Try to keep anonymous.

Most of all, do NOT let them move into your head and live there rent free.  Evict their deadbeat asses, live your life and be happy.  If you allow these people to make you as miserable and paranoid as they are, they win.

It's not going to be perfect or fun, but being part of an outcast, marginalized minority never is.

Personally, I'd avoid social media like the plague it is.

And while yes, you definitely do NOT want them living in your head, rent free (the old saw about 'the best revenge is just living well' springs to mind here)... don't discount those social dogpiles. Look at Alec Holowka, for example.

I'm not saying 'give up'. I am saying 'know your enemies, and yourself' as Sun Tzu said.

My point exactly. You don't owe these people access to your life.  If you MUST have a Twitter account for work, because you run an indie RPG publishing company for instance, keep your work social media STRICTLY separate from your private life.  No politics, no personal life BS, product announcements and hype generation only. If you see someone trying to start a social media dogpile, blockbot their entire followers list on sight.

Or if your product has a Subreddit, make  sure you created it and are a moderator. I know that's against Retiquette, but that rule is basically never enforced.

The best option, though, is to avoid those sites altogether if you have the option.  The internet worked just fine for 30 years with no Social Media sites.  We don't need them.  Small, gatekept communities are vastly superior.

Quote from: WillInNewHaven on October 31, 2020, 03:18:17 PM

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:00:43 AM

Quote from: ShieldWife on October 19, 2020, 11:20:05 AM

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 02:12:40 AM
Well yes of course. That means stop deriding other people's game experiences/needs.

I mean the only reason this thread exists is because someone saw an rpg game designed for LGBTQ needs and derided it. I mean how much more hypocritical can you get?

Why on heaven's green earth do you care if a game is advertised as anti-fascist or anti-bigot. If you aren't either of such then good for them. If you are, then just go about whatever it is your kind do on a daily basis. Why are you letting it bother you?

Why the hell do you care about this? Are you so easily offended? Let people enjoy games that make them feel comfortable and safe.

I don't think that anybody really cares about an RPG for LGBTQ people. Though, it is a silly idea. You can play a "thirsty lesbian" in any RPG that I have ever played with no additional difficulty. Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a silly name for a game too, it strikes me as more sexploitation than social justice, and that is probably how they should have done it. Like Car Lesbians.

As for why we would let this bother us? I can only speak for myself in saying that a single small time indy game with SJW elements doesn't trouble me at all, even if the creators say that I'm bad and wrong and not allowed to play.

The problem is that this isn't a one time thing with one minor game. It is an extremist attitude which is coming to dominate all geeky hobbies from RPG's to video games to shows, movies, and books. It seems like we can't engage in any geeky activity without being beat over the had with how bad straight white men are and what villains people are for disagreeing.

Would you be pissed off about a bunch of right wing extremists making a RPG where they said that left wingers are terrible and not allowed to play? I bet you would hate that, even if it was an unpopular game made by a small group. How would you feel then if a high percentage of game companies were like that, if most of the TV shows were like that?

Why are you here chastising us for complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians instead of asking them why they care about the politics of role players?

Right-wing extremist games already exist. There are several. I'm talking about RaHoWa or Myfarog. I'm sure left-wingers would be disparaged by players of those games. I'm sure those who play these games would care about the politics of their players as well.

I have never made a post in any form of my online presence against them. But there is a difference. Those proposing games like RaHoWa and Myfarog have points of view that can cause active harm to others. Tell me what actual physical harm have thirsty lesbians ever threatened upon you?

I think the name is a little silly too, but I think that is the point. It is a game that is just embracing that and letting it run. I think it is very brave and forward.

I played in a Myfarog camapaign for a few weeks and there wasn't anything right-wing about it. The GM created his own setting, in the ancient fertile crescent and the rules were just (mediocre) RPG rules. I have glanced at the settings published by the originator of the game and they did seem to indicate something worse than being merely on the political right.

Pretty much this.

Despite my beefs with Varg Vikernes, I did buy a copy of MYFAROG off of Amazon out of morbid curiosity (it was a secondhand used copy so I wouldn't give Varg my money)

To Varg's credit, he's always made a point of separating his music from his politics and with the base MYFAROG setting, there's enough plausible deniability that you'd probably assume it was a generic vaguely Nordic-themed and Tolkien-influenced Iron Age low fantasy setting if you didn't know who made it.

If you're going with the base rules, it's pretty much in the vein of a late 80's RPG and the base setting of Thule has setting elements that only really seem racist when you put it in context with Varg's actual political beliefs.

I honestly think the big recent "Orcs are blacks" controversy in D&D 5E and the Big Purple crowd is partly related to the MYFAROG controversies in 2013-2014. People claimed that one of the "Always Chaotic Evil" monster races was meant to be a grotesque parody of African tribals and he instead insisted they were meant as his take on Tolkien's Orcs (probably as a "Cover Your Own Ass" move)

Another book I bought as part of that same deal was The Coming, a modern/post-apocalyptic setting for the MYFAROG rules set in our time and that one actually is pretty damn racist and also pretty anti-American too.

More to the point - calling Orcs "blacks", is their gateway to attacking anything related to Tolkien which therefore allows them to attack virtually everything/anything in the Fantasy genre since they project the sin of "X-ism" by proximity.

It also allows them to stir up sympathy purchases by marketing this stuff to their base. People will get to virtue-signal their purchases of Sword Lesbians and never play it.

It's cannibal-parasite marketing.