Quote from: jhkim on October 30, 2020, 02:10:34 PM
...
Culture wars exist in with wider world (especially in voting and in children's media). However, I don't think RPGs are in any way a useful medium for conveying liberal or conservative values. So they're not actually a functional battlefield.
...

I disagree with your assumption.

It's not about "conveying values". It is about controlling the narrative on all media.

It always has been.

They don't care about genuinely changing your mind. They will force you to accept their presence, and their rules.

Anything you like to do, they want to take over and ruin if you think differently than them.

Look at the control/ banning of any dissenting opinion at places like RPG.net.

Or even now at ENWorld, they want an "Inclusive community" so they have banned the use of the words: agenda, ideology, politics, and propaganda, from being used by anyone calling out the lefty posters over there when they spout their conflict theory nonsense.  (I'm pretty sure you guys can blame me for than one...)

Conveying values?

It's about ramming marxism down your throat, and silencing any dissent.

Some of us went through the real culture war in 2008.

This one is weak sauce.

Quote from: ShieldWife on October 19, 2020, 11:20:05 AM

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 02:12:40 AM
Well yes of course. That means stop deriding other people's game experiences/needs.

I mean the only reason this thread exists is because someone saw an rpg game designed for LGBTQ needs and derided it. I mean how much more hypocritical can you get?

Why on heaven's green earth do you care if a game is advertised as anti-fascist or anti-bigot. If you aren't either of such then good for them. If you are, then just go about whatever it is your kind do on a daily basis. Why are you letting it bother you?

Why the hell do you care about this? Are you so easily offended? Let people enjoy games that make them feel comfortable and safe.

I don't think that anybody really cares about an RPG for LGBTQ people. Though, it is a silly idea. You can play a "thirsty lesbian" in any RPG that I have ever played with no additional difficulty. Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a silly name for a game too, it strikes me as more sexploitation than social justice, and that is probably how they should have done it. Like Car Lesbians.

As for why we would let this bother us? I can only speak for myself in saying that a single small time indy game with SJW elements doesn't trouble me at all, even if the creators say that I'm bad and wrong and not allowed to play.

The problem is that this isn't a one time thing with one minor game. It is an extremist attitude which is coming to dominate all geeky hobbies from RPG's to video games to shows, movies, and books. It seems like we can't engage in any geeky activity without being beat over the had with how bad straight white men are and what villains people are for disagreeing.

Would you be pissed off about a bunch of right wing extremists making a RPG where they said that left wingers are terrible and not allowed to play? I bet you would hate that, even if it was an unpopular game made by a small group. How would you feel then if a high percentage of game companies were like that, if most of the TV shows were like that?

Why are you here chastising us for complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians instead of asking them why they care about the politics of role players?

Right-wing extremist games already exist. There are several. I'm talking about RaHoWa or Myfarog. I'm sure left-wingers would be disparaged by players of those games. I'm sure those who play these games would care about the politics of their players as well.

I have never made a post in any form of my online presence against them. But there is a difference. Those proposing games like RaHoWa and Myfarog have points of view that can cause active harm to others. Tell me what actual physical harm have thirsty lesbians ever threatened upon you?

I think the name is a little silly too, but I think that is the point. It is a game that is just embracing that and letting it run. I think it is very brave and forward.

Quote from: jeff37923 on October 19, 2020, 12:15:23 PM

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 01:59:04 AM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with racial liberation, queer liberation, and intersectional feminism.

OK, then.

Now tell us how Thirsty Sword Lesbians helps to positively bring about a world where these issues are not a problem. See, if you can't, then this game is just using those talking points to make sales and not make change you want to see.

The fact that the game exists and addresses these elements as a matter of fact. It helps bring awareness. It also provides an avenue where such is acceptable. It helps those who need a feeling of acceptance and does no harm to anyone else. It is a great idea.

Quote from: Brad on October 19, 2020, 09:32:49 AM

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 02:12:40 AMLet people enjoy games that make them feel comfortable and safe.

Literal fucking LOL at this crap. Jesus Christ you people truly are insane.

Wow. You actually are willing to deride someone who makes a very open and accepting statement that people should play the games that make them feel comfortable and safe???

Why? Do you think that some people are not allowed to be comfortable and safe? Do you think some people are not allowed to enjoy the games they like? I don't understand you motivation, here.

Quote from: sureshot on October 18, 2020, 11:16:50 AM

Quote from: Snowman0147 on October 18, 2020, 11:12:29 AM
Thanks for outing yourself fixable.  Glad to know your a unfixable piece of fascist shit that I can safely ignore.

Mistwell and Fixable are not really interested in having a discussion of any kind. It's simply to metaphorically wag fingers say that the rpgsite is evil and to push carefully constructed personal narratives. Anyhing and everything that goes against said narrative is to be summarily ignored.

I figured that out from the start. Woke repressive, regressive SJWs have a way of starting a conversation where you and I and anyone else who has a difference of opinion is always in the wrong. We never said don't publish the rpg. Just that speaking for myself I will not support any rpg from a company that needs to always attach a woke SJW manifesto to every rpg. I used to game and be friends wirh someone like Fixable who started normal drank the SJW kool-aid an made myself and anyone who disagreed with him the enemy. For example they just changed the main actress from Batgirl from white to a POC and when myself and another gaming friend pointed out it was a race swap he accused us and the fans that disagreed with the change as being racist and misogynist. The other friend who is more liberal than myself just cut him from his life and I followed shortly after. As everytime we disagreed with his position we were (insert word)ists. It's pretty bad when even the Trump hating firmly on the Left in terms of political spectrum Liberal gets fed up of a person Woke SJw politics.

Well fine.

The thing is what you call a 'woke manifesto' is simply a statement of inclusiveness. I'm all for it. Why would you not make this hobby more inclusive and more accepting? It will only grow the hobby and bring more people into the game.

You are just scared. You are scared that people that you don't understand will be allowed to enjoy the hobby. These people may change the hobby from under your feet. You are scared that these 'so called wok sjw's will kill your hobby... or rather your preferred iteration of the hobby". These evil sjw's will force you to change your game.

That is absolute rubbish.

Play D&D the way you want to play D&D, and let those you don't agree with play D&D the way they want to play D&D. I propose a live and let live attitude, and you all jump down my throat thinking that I am promoting some made-up evil sjw terrorist organization determined to rule the world.

If you listen to yourselves, you sound ridiculous. Go GI Joe!!!

Quote from: Eirikrautha on October 18, 2020, 11:04:39 AM

Well if you have a problem with the idea that a game is not for communists, then that is your problem. If you choose to provide comfort to communist beliefs then you got to reconcile that on your own. Don't blame independent forum posters for that.

Its not about identity politics. It is about communists have ZERO place in our society.

If you have comforting ideas towards communists then you are going to have to pay the price for it. If it means being ostracized from real connection from other people because you are an asshole, communist, Marxist, piece of shit than so be it. You deserve it.

If you are a communist, then get the f*ck out of our hobby. You don't belong here. I'll show you the door.

(Fixed that for you...)

Cute.

I didn't start this thread. I'm just responding to it.

You can't just dissolve yourself of your own failing by shifting blame to someone else. Although maybe in these times it is now considered ok.

Quote from: jeff37923 on October 24, 2020, 05:35:27 AM

Quote from: fixable on October 24, 2020, 03:20:23 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on October 19, 2020, 12:15:23 PM

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 01:59:04 AM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with racial liberation, queer liberation, and intersectional feminism.

OK, then.

Now tell us how Thirsty Sword Lesbians helps to positively bring about a world where these issues are not a problem. See, if you can't, then this game is just using those talking points to make sales and not make change you want to see.

Well you are putting too much into this. Thirsty Sword Lesbians is just a game made by people who enjoy it. It doesn't need to be anything more than that. Let people who want to have fun playing this game play it. Why in the world do you care?

I know that you are just here to troll.

But I'll share a secret with you. It never ends with, "Live and let live". It just keeps on going until that which does not conform to their ideology is silenced. You can tell by the language used in the game Kickstarter that this game is not meant to be a commercial success or a tool to help create safe spaces for gamers to play in, it is a propaganda weapon used to try and fleece the gullible of their money by antagonizing the dull-witted into reacting how they wish. The tactic has been used before and gets old very quick and most of the people on this forum are really tired of it.

Well, I'm not trying to troll. I'm just very passionate about the idea the role-playing games are for everyone and that there are many games that should appeal to many people.

Games like RaHoWa and Myfarog exist for those who are into that sh*t.

The idea of deriding a game because you find it offensive is just stupid.

You take the existence of this game as an attack against you. A game that appeals to otherwise marginalized people, who just want to have fun playing a role-playing game that appeals to them.

I don't know what to say about that other than f*ck off and let this game provide fun for those who want to play it.

Edit: I'd rather be positive. RPGs are awesome.

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:35:04 AM
The thing is what you call a 'woke manifesto' is simply a statement of inclusiveness. I'm all for it. Why would you not make this hobby more inclusive and more accepting? It will only grow the hobby and bring more people into the game.

This hobby has always been inclusive and accepting because in many cases we were social pariahs for liking rpgs. We never turned away anyone or everyone away from playing an rpg. I sure as hell don't need some kind of Woke manifesto telling me to do something I was doing from the start. Then again Mistwell and you other Woke SJWs like to present and push a revisionist aspect of the hobby where everyone and anyone but straight males were allowed to play and join. Speaking for myself I allowed anyone and everyone who was not a jerk and who wanted to play.

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:35:04 AM
You are just scared. You are scared that people that you don't understand will be allowed to enjoy the hobby. These people may change the hobby from under your feet. You are scared that these 'so called wok sjw's will kill your hobby... or rather your preferred iteration of the hobby". These evil sjw's will force you to change your game.

Oh go fuck your father and mother.

Unlike some in the hobby I don't care what your skin color, gender or sexuality is. As long as you want to have fun and not be an asshole or jerk at the table you are welcome to join. I don't care if if you self identify as a unicorn or gay person if you act like a jerk your out of the game. No exceptions and non-negotiable.

You and others like yourself are scared. You don't realize or care about how hypocritical your positions are. Be diverse and inclusive while picking only those who are mindless and repeat the SJW mantras back at you. Which is being anything but diverse and inclusive.

What did you think that you were simply going to come in kick the door down and not expect push back. You SJWs truly are fucking blind and naive in every sense of the word.

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:35:04 AM
That is absolute rubbish.

What is absolute rubbish is you and other woke SJWs present narratives and revisionist history in it's purest form. Making up wild and baseless accusations that only straight white males played D&D and that their was some imaginary Illuminati conspiracy to keep anyone and everyone that was not straight, white and male out of the hobby. Did it happen yes yet anyone who usually joined a table who was racist and later homophobic was booted and banned from joining again. But hey keep making out out to be evil bogeyman instead of engaging in any critical thinking. After all one can't go against the carefully constructed personal narratives can we.

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:35:04 AM
Play D&D the way you want to play D&D, and let those you don't agree with play D&D the way they want to play D&D. I propose a live and let live attitude, and you all jump down my throat thinking that I am promoting some made-up evil sjw terrorist organization determined to rule the world.

Bullshit. Pure 1000% bullshit.
Sorry I am not falling for this trap again. You woke SJWs only want those you approve of and who drink the kool-aid to join the hobby. If you and others like you had your way we would be blacklisted from every playing the hobby ever again.

The difference is I don't care who plays in this hobby. Unfortunately in a democracy even those who I think believe in evil abhorrent beliefs should be allowed to play. It's something you woke sJWs seem to forget about. Your not living in some totalitarian regime on who gets to decide who plays rpgs and who does not. Not all yet the more extreme woke SJWs sure as hell want to control who plays and runs.

Citation needed as again no one said that no one should play the rpg.

The Woke SJW disclaimer was not needed imo. I will never play with homophobic, anti-trans, or racist players. I sure as hell don't need you or an rpg company to tell me who I can or cannot allow at my tables. If you need to be told not to play with racists at tables one is fucking clueless

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:35:04 AM
If you listen to yourselves, you sound ridiculous. Go GI Joe!!!

your not interested in a real discussion and only want an echo chamber. Rolling rolling keep the narratives rolling RAWHIDE!

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:21:03 AM
Wow. You actually are willing to deride someone who makes a very open and accepting statement that people should play the games that make them feel comfortable and safe???

Why? Do you think that some people are not allowed to be comfortable and safe? Do you think some people are not allowed to enjoy the games they like? I don't understand you motivation, here.

The hobby was always safe and comfortable. Unfortunately jerks, racists and other terrible people exist. My table you are treated with respect and as an equal. I'm also not going to ask a player to return if anything and everything offends them. Gaming is for fun and to unwind. Not to be walking continually on eggshells because player XYZ lacks the ability and willingness to be an adult.

If you need constant and continual validation to live one life. All I can say is grow up and act like an adult. It's not my problem or the rest of the other members who play rpgs to cater to children in adult bodies. Life in general is not safe and comfortable.

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:00:43 AM
Right-wing extremist games already exist. There are several. I'm talking about RaHoWa or Myfarog. I'm sure left-wingers would be disparaged by players of those games. I'm sure those who play these games would care about the politics of their players as well.

I have never made a post in any form of my online presence against them. But there is a difference. Those proposing games like RaHoWa and Myfarog have points of view that can cause active harm to others. Tell me what actual physical harm have thirsty lesbians ever threatened upon you?

I think the name is a little silly too, but I think that is the point. It is a game that is just embracing that and letting it run. I think it is very brave and forward.

So you can discuss the above games no problems because you feel strongly against them. Why are we not allowed the same courtesy to discuss TSL. You Woke SJWs really like being hypocrites and your double standards don't you. The same rules that I expect others to follow don't apply to me because of reasons and feels. Or tossed aside when they are inconvenient and getting in the way of the narrative. 

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:21:03 AM

Quote from: Brad on October 19, 2020, 09:32:49 AM

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 02:12:40 AMLet people enjoy games that make them feel comfortable and safe.

Literal fucking LOL at this crap. Jesus Christ you people truly are insane.

Wow. You actually are willing to deride someone who makes a very open and accepting statement that people should play the games that make them feel comfortable and safe???

Why? Do you think that some people are not allowed to be comfortable and safe? Do you think some people are not allowed to enjoy the games they like? I don't understand you motivation, here.

"WOW, YIKES, WOW, OMG, I JUST CAN'T EVEN!!"

Piss off with your pearl clutching, no one here is impressed.

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:21:03 AM

Quote from: Brad on October 19, 2020, 09:32:49 AM

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 02:12:40 AMLet people enjoy games that make them feel comfortable and safe.

Literal fucking LOL at this crap. Jesus Christ you people truly are insane.

Wow. You actually are willing to deride someone who makes a very open and accepting statement that people should play the games that make them feel comfortable and safe???

Why? Do you think that some people are not allowed to be comfortable and safe? Do you think some people are not allowed to enjoy the games they like? I don't understand you motivation, here.

Get a life, loser. Seriously.

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:00:43 AMRight-wing extremist games already exist. There are several. I'm talking about RaHoWa or Myfarog. I'm sure left-wingers would be disparaged by players of those games. I'm sure those who play these games would care about the politics of their players as well.

And both of those games are a running punchline in RPG communities everywhere.

Quote from: fixable on October 31, 2020, 04:00:43 AMI have never made a post in any form of my online presence against them. But there is a difference. Those proposing games like RaHoWa and Myfarog have points of view that can cause active harm to others. Tell me what actual physical harm have thirsty lesbians ever threatened upon you?

...As the US burns in riots and people are attacked and killed in the streets.