Greetings!

Geesus, why the fuck do hungry hippo lesbians need a game that they can feel "comfortable and safe"? Presumably, a D&D game is about fantasy adventures exploring dungeons, fighting orcs, and slaying dragons.

What the fuck does being a hungry fucking hippo lesbian have to do with the D&D game?

Or is really all just about ridin' that Sybian thing and Reeing! Reeing! Reeing! about how oppressed hungry fucking hippo lesbians are?

Fucking identity politics obsessed SJW morons. They can jerk themselves a soda.

The SJW tyrants and Marxist thought-police can stay the fuck out of OUR Hobby.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 02:12:40 AM
Well yes of course. That means stop deriding other people's game experiences/needs.

I mean the only reason this thread exists is because someone saw an rpg game designed for LGBTQ needs and derided it. I mean how much more hypocritical can you get?

Why on heaven's green earth do you care if a game is advertised as anti-fascist or anti-bigot. If you aren't either of such then good for them. If you are, then just go about whatever it is your kind do on a daily basis. Why are you letting it bother you?

Why the hell do you care about this? Are you so easily offended? Let people enjoy games that make them feel comfortable and safe.

I don't think that anybody really cares about an RPG for LGBTQ people. Though, it is a silly idea. You can play a "thirsty lesbian" in any RPG that I have ever played with no additional difficulty. Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a silly name for a game too, it strikes me as more sexploitation than social justice, and that is probably how they should have done it. Like Car Lesbians.

As for why we would let this bother us? I can only speak for myself in saying that a single small time indy game with SJW elements doesn't trouble me at all, even if the creators say that I'm bad and wrong and not allowed to play.

The problem is that this isn't a one time thing with one minor game. It is an extremist attitude which is coming to dominate all geeky hobbies from RPG's to video games to shows, movies, and books. It seems like we can't engage in any geeky activity without being beat over the had with how bad straight white men are and what villains people are for disagreeing.

Would you be pissed off about a bunch of right wing extremists making a RPG where they said that left wingers are terrible and not allowed to play? I bet you would hate that, even if it was an unpopular game made by a small group. How would you feel then if a high percentage of game companies were like that, if most of the TV shows were like that?

Why are you here chastising us for complaining about Thirsty Sword Lesbians instead of asking them why they care about the politics of role players?

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 01:59:04 AM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with racial liberation, queer liberation, and intersectional feminism.

OK, then.

Now tell us how Thirsty Sword Lesbians helps to positively bring about a world where these issues are not a problem. See, if you can't, then this game is just using those talking points to make sales and not make change you want to see.

Quote from: ShieldWife on October 19, 2020, 11:20:05 AM
Would you be pissed off about a bunch of right wing extremists making a RPG where they said that left wingers are terrible and not allowed to play? I bet you would hate that, even if it was an unpopular game made by a small group. How would you feel then if a high percentage of game companies were like that, if most of the TV shows were like that?

I don't speak for fixable, but I have no problem with there being both right-wing games and left-wing games.

I don't think that RPGs have any power as propaganda in changing culture. Children's television and Disney movies are powerful propaganda (among others), but RPGs require too much active involvement from the GM and players. They only attract people who are open to those views. So I see warring and raging against the politics of the other side as pointless sound and fury.

Quote from: jhkim on October 19, 2020, 02:28:31 PMI don't think that RPGs have any power as propaganda in changing culture. Children's television and Disney movies are powerful propaganda (among others), but RPGs require too much active involvement from the GM and players. They only attract people who are open to those views. So I see warring and raging against the politics of the other side as pointless sound and fury.

You're not wrong insofar as actual gaming with any given long-term group goes, but the culture of the hobby does have an influence on the hobby in general. Conflict over exactly how that culture should be changed, if some of its members think it should be, is relevant to the people involved. Bear in mind also that however small a part of geek pop culture tabletop RPGs may be, no sub-hobby is an island; what turns up first in comics, games, videogames, movies, TV shows, manga, anime or novels eventually drifts around to the rest of the subgroups. So it isn't that unreasonable to think that the sooner something objectionable (however one defines "objectionable") is called out, the better.

However, that said, I actually agree with you about the ultimate ineffectiveness of such calling out, though for different reasons: I suspect this particular game's makers are actually deliberately trying to invoke the Streisand Effect, in that the more people who complain about the game the higher public awareness is raised. So I would much rather see such blatantly politicized games ignored than denounced.

Quote from: tenbones on October 19, 2020, 09:56:44 AM
This thread is hysterical.

FASCISM!

Using the word Hysterical is bad and wrong. Didnt you get the memo?

No. Im not joking. Months ago in the gaming circles and then outside it the nutcases were arguing this.
Nothing is safe from these lunatics to hallucinate is the new "great evil that must be ENDED!"

It's both incredibly funny and increasingly sad that no one here said anything about anyone else not being allowed to play the rpg. Or who plays the rpg. Just that because msyelf and others mocked Evil Hat for attaching such a Work and SJW manifesto their latest rpg. Somehow mocking EH became tantamount to being a Fascist. With those calling us out encouraging censorship by trying to claim anyone who is not onboard 10000% with the rpg is worse than an actual Fascist. 

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 19, 2020, 04:13:16 PMI suspect this particular game's makers are actually deliberately trying to invoke the Streisand Effect, in that the more people who complain about the game the higher public awareness is raised.

Remember Fate of Cthulhu, and how much praise/contempt/attention it got for dedicating one of it's small pages to letting readers know that HP Lovecraft was a racist?

And not much mention of any of the game's strengths or (numerous) weaknesses?

You can bet Evil Hat was paying attention.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 19, 2020, 04:13:16 PM
So I would much rather see such blatantly politicized games ignored than denounced.

We live in a post-internet age.  "Don't pay them any attention, that's what they want" is sage advice, but nobody listens.

Personally, I think you could take this book as-is, and drop it in... say... ten years ago or ten years from now, and people would be bashing on its exploitative and tone deaf nature based on the title alone.  What was vulgar is camp, what is camp will be vulgar.  The sad fact remains that there's literally nothing stopping a group from playing characters of any orientation in (almost) any game, and nothing special needed to do so.

Quote from: sureshot on October 19, 2020, 09:59:15 AM

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 01:59:04 AM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with racial liberation, queer liberation, and intersectional feminism. Execpt that you don't like it.

Where did anyone here say that we don't like it.

It's completely off topic, so I didn't comment, but I'll go on record saying I don't like racial liberation, queer liberation and intersectional feminism. Mostly emphasis on the feminism, which I am most familiar with, but the whole thing is a bag of identity politics activist buzzwords that have different meanings than the common useage, or the issue is deeper than a two word slogan.

But again, it's a red herring on the topic of Thirty Thirsty Thlesbians.

Quote from: Habitual Gamer on October 19, 2020, 05:33:19 PM"Don't pay them any attention, that's what they want" is sage advice, but nobody listens.

Too true, and ironically appropriate.

Like the old slogan, "Question authority!", which nobody ever realizes always includes the unspoken caveat: "Except mine, of course."

Quote from: jhkim on October 19, 2020, 02:28:31 PM
I don't speak for fixable, but I have no problem with there being both right-wing games and left-wing games.

I don't think that RPGs have any power as propaganda in changing culture. Children's television and Disney movies are powerful propaganda (among others), but RPGs require too much active involvement from the GM and players. They only attract people who are open to those views. So I see warring and raging against the politics of the other side as pointless sound and fury.

I basically don't have an objection to any kind of ideology being pushed in a RPG, taken in a case by case basis. I do start to object when certain messages come to completely dominate the hobby while others are suppressed.

As you say, RPG's aren't as effective a propaganda tool as other more passive forms of media, since the players and especially the GM drive the stories and themes so much. They can still push an agenda, but to a lesser degree.

Though once again, taken individually I don't see a biased show, movie, or book as so dangerous. What I have more fear of are overarching narratives created by entertainment that hammer the public with the same message over and over again until it is just assumed to be reality for far to many people. When you watch a movie with X message, then read a book with X message, then watch a few TV shows with X message - then a lot of people are going to start thinking of X as being reality, often without even critically examining why they think that.

RPG's with an agenda can be a part of that phenomenon.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on October 19, 2020, 07:16:09 PM
Like the old slogan, "Question authority!", which nobody ever realizes always includes the unspoken caveat: "Except mine, of course."

I always tell my students to think for themselves & question everyone - including me.

If it weren't for the fact this is using the shitty Powered By The Apocalypse rules, I'd get a group together and run an explicitly fascist one-shot of this game where the titular thirsty sword lesbians are anti-intersectional fascist lesbians fighting the forces of intersectionality and destroying the marginalized scum

Queer is a homophobic slur, by the way.

Quote from: fixable on October 19, 2020, 02:05:13 AM
I don't know what you mean by idpol issues. I think you are making a term up. Care to define? Either way you are deflecting.

And yes fascisim is exactly that. Fascist behavior is synomonous with racism, misogyny, and transphobia. Look at the actions of Nazi Germany, look at how Russia treats those who are homosexual. I mean are you defending fascism?

And if you have to ask what is wrong with fascist economy policy then, literally what the f are you talking about?

Idpol is short for identity politics. I'm also not sure how I'm deflecting.

My point is that fascism is not JUST those things, or even directly defined by them in the first place. It certainly isn't foreign to them, but it is not the totality of fascism. If all you can say about fascists is that they're racist, then really they're no better or worse than a hell of a lot of people in history, including many left wing parties, like the Soviets, the CCP, etc. It's a completely useless term at that point.

Fascism would be garbage even if it wasn't even remotely racist. That's lost when you make it a synonym of bigotry, as if nothing else they did was bad enough to be worthy of note.

And this all goes back to my original point. You're not talking about actual fascism. You're talking about politics dealing with certain identity groups (identity politics you might say), and people who disagree with you about it. If you think there is some political issue around identity groups that is important, you have zero reason to hide from the term identity politics. Just be honest about what is actually at issue instead of name-calling.

Quote from: Doc Sammy on October 20, 2020, 03:08:51 AM
If it weren't for the fact this is using the shitty Powered By The Apocalypse rules, I'd get a group together and run an explicitly fascist one-shot of this game where the titular thirsty sword lesbians are anti-intersectional fascist lesbians fighting the forces of intersectionality and destroying the marginalized scum

Queer is a homophobic slur, by the way.

Don't let the system stop you; pave the way for others by doing an OSR-compatable neo-retro-conversion reskin.