Quote from: bat on October 16, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
I guess this project begs one question : Why is it necessary?
Can't anyone just homebrew any setting?

Will challenge this statement a bit. If it's done correctly it makes that type of game easier.
By your base argument Ebberon, Forgotten Realms, Chivalry & Sorcery, Runequest etc. are all possible using OD&D.

Quote from: bat on October 16, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
I'm starting to wonder if many of the people getting into roleplaying are getting into something really not form them. There is no room for dictators who tell other groups how to play. Just encourage people to play and have fun. If you feel a compulsion to dictate and meddle in the fun of others maybe roleplaying is not the right hobby.

I find this observation a lot more interesting. What's happened to the base premise that anyone can play? This group/movement seems to have become far more militant/demanding in recent times. Not a good look for RPGing in general.

Am wondering how Evil Hat's apparent strategy of focussing on a particular segment of the gaming market will play out. Is that segment big enough to sustain it, or will its association with that market mean a drop in revenue from other lines. ie is Fate Core to become or already its generic LGBTQI RPG?

Quote from: Mercurius on October 16, 2020, 03:21:22 PMThe info is out there. The DSM-IV called it "gender identity disorder" but it has been re-named "gender dysphoria" in the DSM V, because it is no longer seen as a disorder (or illness).

Now whether or not you or I consider it a disorder, illness, condition, etc, is beside the point. It really comes down to ideological framing.

Certainly some of the "ideological framing" going on is this post. And Visionstorm's attempt to cite "sources" that are not the APA, and do not reference the DSM that you cite as "proof".

You point out the name change from "identity disorder" to "dysphoria" in the DSM as "proof" that it is "no longer seen as a disorder (or illness)."

You conveniently do not explain what the DSM is, or is an abbreviation of. Allow me to help:

DSM = Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

Listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders = It's a mental disorder.

The APA (American Psychiatric Association) has re-named many other listings in the DSM in the past for clarity in diagnosis several times. Note that Homosexuality is not listed at all in the DSM

IMHO it does not take a genius to see that the change from "disorder" to "dysphoria" was done for political reasons so that APA will take less heat from trans activists who are too lazy to read or look up definitions in a dictionary. If you actually bother to compare the listings in DSM-IV-TR and the new DSM-V; you will find that the actual definitions of the "disorder/dysphoria" are still identical. (With more explanatory wording in the DSM-V about diagnosis).

Because I can: Listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders = It's a mental disorder. Not that hard guys.

Yes, the NHS and WHO both contradict the APA. (APA = the group of dedicated actual psychiatrists.)

News Flash! Woke activists with power to set policy are willing to lie and be disingenuous to push their agenda.

In other news: Water is Wet.

.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on October 16, 2020, 04:26:57 PM
But my point is? This can be done in any game with a broad enough ruleset and character options. You don't need a special branded game to do any of this. Just an imagination and good player skills.

The game that is the subject of this thread doesn't bring anything special to the table that couldn't be already done with existing games. All it's doing is to exploit controversy to generate sales. Which honestly? I'd rather someone show me what makes a game product special. Rather than hype.

Look at the bright side: the conservative right will point to it as "grooming" while the SJWs on the Left (who aren't getting a paycheck from this) will shriek about how it's exploitative and reduces lesbianism to something silly and/or monstrous.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting for Evil Hat to try releasing some new PBTA game about playing blaxploitation stories.  Everything from "Guy From Harlem" to "Shaft".  But filtered through a SoCal animation style to make it acceptable to the target audience.  Because Black Lives Matter (and making money from SJW suckers matters even more).  "But I don't need a new game system just to play a black character!"  You don't need more than one system to play an elf either, but here we are.

(on a side note: I'm aware that Spirit of 77 exists.  Fuse it with Damnation Decade by Green Ronin, and you have a game!)

Quote from: bat on October 16, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
I'm starting to wonder if many of the people getting into roleplaying are getting into something really not form them. There is no room for dictators who tell other groups how to play. Just encourage people to play and have fun. If you feel a compulsion to dictate and meddle in the fun of others maybe roleplaying is not the right hobby.

I agree with your statement here, but people introduced to RPGs through Organized Play do exactly that behavior in compulsory dictating what is considered "Officially" fun in gaming.

I have no issues with this. They are not hiding anything. They are marketing directly to their audience and stating upfront who they want as their customers, and who they do not as their customers. It's a specifically niche product, and it seems they are on pace to sell over $100,000 worth of it in their Kickstarter in true capitalist fashion.

Why is this an issue?

Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
Why is this an issue?

I've thought about this for a bit, as I've been surprised how riled certain elements of the Kickstarter have made me. For me personally, when I started in this hobby I was the geek or whatever, and really enjoyed finding a hobby where I felt I belonged.

40 years on and someone's trying to exclude me.

Edited to add: it's not my decision anymore that no this product doesn't interest me, it's no we don't want you.

Quote from: Melan on October 16, 2020, 10:06:32 AM
That's OK, because if you look at the list of makers mentioned on the KS campaign page, or even the Twitter chatter surrounding the game, you will notice something really, really curious:



I will let you discover what that is. 

*Puzzled look* I can't imagine what you mean...

Quote from: SHARK on October 16, 2020, 10:35:00 AM
Greetings!

Indeed. They are all gay and Trans men, a few weird gender-fluid, polyamorous women, and in general, rainbow freaks.

A quick Google reveals that Kit Walsh isn't just transgender or similar - apparently he/she is transracial too!

http://bloggingwhilebrown.com/speakers-2015

"Blogging while brown"? 

One the one hand, unsurprising SJW hatred for anything remotely normal... and also not even proficient enough to build a setting appropriate ruleset... there's a reason all this stuff turns up under OGL borderline storygame systems like PbtA.

... on the other hand I really have to give them props for getting self-loathing white male SJWs to throw their money at them in order to assuage their feelings of guilt and reassurance that they aren't the racist fascists their hearts tell them they are.

Quote from: ponta1010 on October 16, 2020, 05:48:20 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
Why is this an issue?

I've thought about this for a bit, as I've been surprised how riled certain elements of the Kickstarter have made me. For me personally, when I started in this hobby I was the geek or whatever, and really enjoyed finding a hobby where I felt I belonged.

40 years on and someone's trying to exclude me.

Edited to add: it's not my decision anymore that no this product doesn't interest me, it's no we don't want you.

I think all the RPG products made have made some people feel excluded, even when exclusion was not intended and even when that feeling was not universal for people like them.

I mean let's face it, some people are geeks and wanted to play sci-fi games and all their friends liked fantasy and wanted to play D&D fantasy and so they felt excluded.

Which I am sure was a bummer. In fact, I think I was that kid for a while. And I had TWO sci-fi themed games I liked (Star Frontiers and Traveller) and none of my friends would play them with me. They were D&D fans who, if I twisted their arms, would be willing to play Marvel Super Heroes, but that was it. \

And I bet if we had played that sci-fi game, one of the fantasy geeks would have felt excluded.

But this game? Yes, it's a niche product for a specific audience which excludes a lot of people. And if your gaming group is way into Thirsty Sword Lesbians and you are not, then you will feel excluded just like I did as a sci-fi geek and my friends just wanted to play fantasy.

I guess that's the benefit of living in a society where it is easier to find groups that play the kinds of games you prefer, now. It's still hard to find some types of games in some places, but at least it's easier now than when we were kids.

And I feel confident if this isn't your game (and I don't think it's my game either) then rest assured I don't think this game is going to take the RPG world by storm and misplace sci-fi and fantasy and horror RPGs out there. Odds of finding a Thirsty Sword Lesbian game will still remain a lot lower than finding a D&D game I suspect.

Quote from: VisionStorm on October 14, 2020, 06:32:27 PM
I came for the lesbians and stayed for the "WTF is this SJW shit?"

Then the game for you is Car Lesbians. It has cars. It has lesbians. It has literally nothing else. Best RPG ever.

Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
I have no issues with this. They are not hiding anything. They are marketing directly to their audience and stating upfront who they want as their customers, and who they do not as their customers. It's a specifically niche product, and it seems they are on pace to sell over $100,000 worth of it in their Kickstarter in true capitalist fashion.

Why is this an issue?

My issue with it is simple, these are the kind of people that froth at the mouth for a chance to whip up the mob and cancel someone for wrong think. I find them and their ideologies ridiculous and not worthy of respect. So in short, fuck'em.

Quote from: Arkansan on October 16, 2020, 10:44:59 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
I have no issues with this. They are not hiding anything. They are marketing directly to their audience and stating upfront who they want as their customers, and who they do not as their customers. It's a specifically niche product, and it seems they are on pace to sell over $100,000 worth of it in their Kickstarter in true capitalist fashion.

Why is this an issue?

My issue with it is simple, these are the kind of people that froth at the mouth for a chance to whip up the mob and cancel someone for wrong think. I find them and their ideologies ridiculous and not worthy of respect. So in short, fuck'em.

OK, but they are not cancelling anyone, and not asking for your respect, with this thing. I am sure they dislike my ideologies and yours as much as you or I dislike theirs. So, what's the issue? They're just selling some stuff to people who like their stuff, and not to people who do not like their stuff. Isn't that what you'd prefer they do with their time, rather than cancel people and demand respect from those who do not respect them?

I mean, they're entitled to their interests as much as you and I, right? Them liking stuff I do not like is not different than my liking stuff they do not like. As the saying goes, their right to swing their arm ends when it connects with my body - and with this, their arm isn't coming anywhere near my body. So live and let live. If this is the stuff they dig, who am I to judge it badwrongfun?

Quote from: Mistwell on October 17, 2020, 12:20:38 AM

Quote from: Arkansan on October 16, 2020, 10:44:59 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
I have no issues with this. They are not hiding anything. They are marketing directly to their audience and stating upfront who they want as their customers, and who they do not as their customers. It's a specifically niche product, and it seems they are on pace to sell over $100,000 worth of it in their Kickstarter in true capitalist fashion.

Why is this an issue?

My issue with it is simple, these are the kind of people that froth at the mouth for a chance to whip up the mob and cancel someone for wrong think. I find them and their ideologies ridiculous and not worthy of respect. So in short, fuck'em.

OK, but they are not cancelling anyone, and not asking for your respect, with this thing. I am sure they dislike my ideologies and yours as much as you or I dislike theirs. So, what's the issue? They're just selling some stuff to people who like their stuff, and not to people who do not like their stuff. Isn't that what you'd prefer they do with their time, rather than cancel people and demand respect from those who do not respect them?

I mean, they're entitled to their interests as much as you and I, right? Them liking stuff I do not like is not different than my liking stuff they do not like. As the saying goes, their right to swing their arm ends when it connects with my body - and with this, their arm isn't coming anywhere near my body. So live and let live. If this is the stuff they dig, who am I to judge it badwrongfun?

Personally I don't really have any issue with the content of the game, people should play whatever games they enjoy. I'm not saying they're having badwrongfun. My issue is the kind of people behind this game are the kind of people that would not extend the same live and let live approach to you. The very second you cross a perceived line they would howl for you to be driven out of "gaming".

The reasons these types have so much success in forcing corporations, groups, communities, etc to bend the knee is because they are playing a zero sum game. So as far as I'm concerned, fuck'em, I hope their game sucks and I intend to mock them at every possible turn. You'll tolerate these people right up until your tolerance makes them the driving force behind industry decisions and gaming culture.

Quote from: Mistwell on October 16, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
Why is this an issue?

Because it is a trap and this is bait.

Take a look at the bio of Kit Walsh, attorney of the EFF and creator of Thirsty Sword Lesbians.

https://www.eff.org/about/staff/kit-walsh