Quote from: Darrin Kelley on October 16, 2020, 03:03:26 PM

Quote from: Mercurius on October 16, 2020, 02:56:15 PM
It is no longer considered an illness, at least by most Western psychiatric and medical organizations.

That is straight up untrue. You are going to need to produce evidence of that claim.

The info is out there. The DSM-IV called it "gender identity disorder" but it has been re-named "gender dysphoria" in the DSM V, because it is no longer seen as a disorder (or illness).

Now whether or not you or I consider it a disorder, illness, condition, etc, is beside the point. It really comes down to ideological framing.

Quote from: VisionStorm on October 16, 2020, 03:19:48 PM

PS: Also Gender Dysphoria really isn't considered an mental illness anymore by many western medical and psychiatric organizations, but it is a contentious subject, and IMO strictly for political reasons given that GD is a debilitating mental condition and transitioning is the treatment prescribed to treat that condition, which by definition, is what a mental illness is. Otherwise what's the treatment for?

You need to produce proof supporting that assertation. Otherwise i'm going to dismiss it as someone randomly talking out of their ass.

Quote from: Mercurius on October 16, 2020, 03:21:22 PM
The info is out there. The DSM-IV called it "gender identity disorder" but it has been re-named "gender dysphoria" in the DSM V, because it is no longer seen as a disorder (or illness).

Now whether or not you or I consider it a disorder, illness, condition, etc, is beside the point. It really comes down to ideological framing.

Sorry. I'm not going to just take your word for it.

Quote from: Mercurius on October 16, 2020, 02:56:15 PM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on October 16, 2020, 02:47:54 PM

Quote from: Mercurius on October 16, 2020, 02:39:26 PM
Wait, what is the "actual diagnosed illness?" Transexualism is not an illness.

Gender Dysphoria.

It is no longer considered an illness, at least by most Western psychiatric and medical organizations.

It might or might not be an illness. Unfortunately, we will not know in the near future, because the present consensus is enforced under threats of expulsion from the medical community, and having one's academic/medical career trashed and reputation dragged through the mud. It is, put simply, dogma.

Which is unfortunate, because otherwise, medical science might discover the root cause(s), and devise an effective treatment instead of offering a horrendously ineffective one that might actually make things worse for many of its subjects.

Darin Kelley: Damn. Really sorry to hear that.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on October 16, 2020, 03:01:06 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on October 16, 2020, 02:45:48 PM
Drag Queens have nothing to do with mocking trans people. Not even everyone in the SJW nut job community believes that, and a subset of them are the few people that do. Its just an artistic form of self expression involving the subversion of gender roles and stuff like that.

My life experience trumps your denial.

My "father" was a drag queen who stole my mom's clothes to sneak out at night when I was a young child to get his jollies. He did so out of hate and jealousy toward my mother. And would scoff at and mock anyone transsexual. He was and still is evil incarnate.

He was getting his kicks one moment, torturing and abusing a sick child the next moment, and raping my mother at the next. So you better believe, I know the face of hate.

I suffered 48 years of PTSD because of that monster. Nonstop fear. And that's no way for anyone to live. 48 years of being trapped in the moment of a small young child frozen in terror, while the monster that is the cause looms over them.

I didn't have a father. My boogeyman was very real.

This sucks, and I'm really sorry that you had/have to experience this.

But one anecdote shouldn't define an entire category of people. I imagine that there are many reasons drag queens are drag queens, but my guess is that the overwhelming majority simply like dressing up as women. It is performance art.

That said, if that is your primary and only association with a certain type of person, it is understandable why you would feel that way - at least on a purely emotional level. I once worked with a woman who had been gang-raped by several black men. She knew intellectually that most black men were not rapists, but she still had a physical response when she saw one. That was 25 years ago...I'm hoping that she found a way to heal this trauma wound, but have no idea.

Quote from: Melan on October 16, 2020, 03:31:47 PM
It might or might not be an illness. Unfortunately, we will not know in the near future, because the present consensus is enforced under threats of expulsion from the medical community, and having one's academic/medical career trashed and reputation dragged through the mud. It is, put simply, dogma.

Which is unfortunate, because otherwise, medical science might discover the root cause(s), and devise an effective treatment instead of offering a horrendously ineffective one that might actually make things worse for many of its subjects.

I don't disagree. Things have a tendency to balance out and evolve over time, and I think as our society becomes more accepting of gender variances, it may be that drastic measures like gender re-assignment surgery will lessen and other avenues become more prominent. A major aspect of the present consensus is the recognition that part of the "problem" is lack of societal acceptance; in other words, the feelings of gender dysphoria are fueled by cultural norms around gender, masculinity and femininity, etc. So I see re-defining the "disorder" as "dysphoria" is a step towards that greater acceptance, and thus less aggressive "treatments."

Not to mention that as medical and biological technology continues to develop, we all may have much greater freedom to create the body we desire - be it different genitalia, different colored eyes, or wings and a tail.

"Oh get over it" shows a profound ignorance of what PTSD does to a person by the one who says it. It's not something a person can just choose to "get over". The afflicted need to be able to cope with it in their own way, otherwise it's never going to stop. They need to find one aspect in their life that makes them feel safe again. And anyone who thinks it is easy is just being willfully ignorant.

People heal on their own time. And not to someone else's convenience.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on October 16, 2020, 03:27:22 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on October 16, 2020, 03:19:48 PM

PS: Also Gender Dysphoria really isn't considered an mental illness anymore by many western medical and psychiatric organizations, but it is a contentious subject, and IMO strictly for political reasons given that GD is a debilitating mental condition and transitioning is the treatment prescribed to treat that condition, which by definition, is what a mental illness is. Otherwise what's the treatment for?

You need to produce proof supporting that assertation. Otherwise i'm going to dismiss it as someone randomly talking out of their ass.

From the NHS website...

QuoteGender dysphoria is not a mental illness, but some people may develop mental health problems because of gender dysphoria.

Transgender no longer recognised as 'disorder' by WHO

QuoteDr Lale Say, a reproductive health expert at the World Health Organization, said: "It was taken out from mental health disorders because we had a better understanding that this was not actually a mental health condition, and leaving it there was causing stigma.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on October 16, 2020, 03:54:29 PM
"Oh get over it" shows a profound ignorance of what PTSD does to a person by the one who says it. It's not something a person can just choose to "get over". The afflicted need to be able to cope with it in their own way, otherwise it's never going to stop. They need to find one aspect in their life that makes them feel safe again. And anyone who thinks it is easy is just being willfully ignorant.

People heal on their own time. And not to someone else's convenience.

I didn't say "get over it." In fact, I made absolutely no recommendations on how you should deal with your trauma, because I am very aware that trauma is extremely difficult to heal, and of course it is none of my business.

What I did say is that your experience with your father doesn't define all drag queens.

Greetings!

I think they are stupid ideological demagogues that have drank from the Marxist Kool-Aid. This "game" is much more of an ideological "vehicle" than a genuine game.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on October 16, 2020, 03:17:16 PM

Quote from: bat on October 16, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
I guess this project begs one question : Why is it necessary?
Can't anyone just homebrew any setting? I remember playing D&D with gay guys, lesbians and really anyone who wanted to play back in the late 80s/early 90s. Nobody had to tell us how to play, sexuality was not emphasized and the rules were approached as a set of general guidelines to build upon.

I'm starting to wonder if many of the people getting into roleplaying are getting into something really not form them. There is no room for dictators who tell other groups how to play. Just encourage people to play and have fun. If you feel a compulsion to dictate and meddle in the fun of others maybe roleplaying is not the right hobby.

I don't think it is necessary. I think it's just an attention grabbing stunt done in very poor taste. The fact we are even talking about it gives it more attention than it truly deserves.

This is exactly my view. Is there a "demand" for this? Absolutely not because unless you have the creativity of a rock you can D-I-Y this sort of thing and I'm sure it has already been done dozens of times over the years. Just people seeking attention that have a difficult time expressing themselves without looking like a runaway train. Nobody cares how you run your setting, just run the game that you want to, it affects nobody outside of your table unless you make a spectacle of yourself. Just play the game with the parameters that everyone at the table is comfortable with in an environment where everyone can have fun.

Quote from: SHARK on October 16, 2020, 10:35:00 AM
Indeed. They are all gay and Trans men

Oh, that type of sword lesbian.

Quote from: bat on October 16, 2020, 04:08:46 PM
This is exactly my view. Is there a "demand" for this? Absolutely not because unless you have the creativity of a rock you can D-I-Y this sort of thing and I'm sure it has already been done dozens of times over the years. Just people seeking attention that have a difficult time expressing themselves without looking like a runaway train. Nobody cares how you run your setting, just run the game that you want to, it affects nobody outside of your table unless you make a spectacle of yourself. Just play the game with the parameters that everyone at the table is comfortable with in an environment where everyone can have fun.

In the science fantasy campaign I used to be a part of, I played a character that was of the succubus/incubus archetype. And she had her own view on sexuality. Which was quite fluid. Being a shapechanger, she could be any gender she wanted. Or none at all. And she was married to another of the same species. Who also preferred a female form as her default.

When playing this character, I looked at what she brought to the game. Which was a considerable skill set. She was completely the expert in her fields. And relied upon by the rest of the group because of it.

I admit I downplayed her sexual aspects for the most part. Only bringing them out when they added a little color and fun to the game. I didn't want to overdo it. Didn't want it just done for a cheap thrill. Because the character had far more mental and emotional depth to it than what people saw on the surface.

But my point is? This can be done in any game with a broad enough ruleset and character options. You don't need a special branded game to do any of this. Just an imagination and good player skills.

The game that is the subject of this thread doesn't bring anything special to the table that couldn't be already done with existing games. All it's doing is to exploit controversy to generate sales. Which honestly? I'd rather someone show me what makes a game product special. Rather than hype.

Quote from: SHARK on October 16, 2020, 04:03:57 PM
Greetings!

I think they are stupid ideological demagogues that have drank from the Marxist Kool-Aid. This "game" is much more of an ideological "vehicle" than a genuine game.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

This is precisely what the game seems to be, going by the Kickstarter promotion, which is loaded with ideologically coded language about "safety" and specifically brings up TERFs and "Fascists", as well as "racial liberation" (totally relevant to lesbianism), "queer liberation" and "intersectional feminism" (the root of all evil).

Quote from: bat on October 16, 2020, 04:08:46 PM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on October 16, 2020, 03:17:16 PM

Quote from: bat on October 16, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
I guess this project begs one question : Why is it necessary?
Can't anyone just homebrew any setting? I remember playing D&D with gay guys, lesbians and really anyone who wanted to play back in the late 80s/early 90s. Nobody had to tell us how to play, sexuality was not emphasized and the rules were approached as a set of general guidelines to build upon.

I'm starting to wonder if many of the people getting into roleplaying are getting into something really not form them. There is no room for dictators who tell other groups how to play. Just encourage people to play and have fun. If you feel a compulsion to dictate and meddle in the fun of others maybe roleplaying is not the right hobby.

I don't think it is necessary. I think it's just an attention grabbing stunt done in very poor taste. The fact we are even talking about it gives it more attention than it truly deserves.

This is exactly my view. Is there a "demand" for this? Absolutely not because unless you have the creativity of a rock you can D-I-Y this sort of thing and I'm sure it has already been done dozens of times over the years. Just people seeking attention that have a difficult time expressing themselves without looking like a runaway train. Nobody cares how you run your setting, just run the game that you want to, it affects nobody outside of your table unless you make a spectacle of yourself. Just play the game with the parameters that everyone at the table is comfortable with in an environment where everyone can have fun.

Unfortunately the ship has sailed on whether there is "demand" (at least technically) for this product, given that it was fully funded within hours and going more than $72k strong currently.

Question is, will it actually be played? Were people really clamoring for this and the silly attention craving play style that it promotes (The game is apparently about "feelings", forging connections and getting to "kiss" your adversaries)? Or are people just ponying money strictly for ideological reasons to pwn the "fascists"?

Somehow I suspect it's the latter.

Quote from: VisionStorm on October 16, 2020, 04:59:24 PMOr are people just ponying money strictly for ideological reasons to pwn the "fascists"?

A fool and his money are soon parted.