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So...I'm coming up on the end of running the demo adventure in the rulebook: These are the things I've Learned:

1. AIM MOTHERFUCKER! Really, starting charcters (and probably ALL characters) NEED to spend that first half action to aim!

2. Get someone with Medicae FAST! It's a trained only skill, and the only way to stop from bleeding to death (unless you're a Feral Worlder).

3. 1% can mean all the difference between passing and failing.

4. Armor works, get some!




The heroes place in the Inquisition is as the TRUE cloak and dagger
part of the operation. They have much of the jurisdiction WITHOUT all of the recognition. This is their (and the GM's) greatest assett when they are serving the Emporer.

So...other players...what have you learned?

1: Full Auto bursts are my friend.

2: "Do we have to radio our ship and ask the Inquisitor to come over himself?" works wonders, even if the Inquisitor isn't actually on your ship.

3: Terrorising supposedly-innocent civilians can help an investigation a lot.

4: If someone knows you're Inquisition and still isn't co-operating, they're hiding something. Nobody has the right to hide from the Inquisition. Therefore, bullets are an appropriate response to being stonewalled.

Quote from: KrakaJak2. Get someone with Medicae FAST! It's a trained only skill, and the only way to stop from bleeding to death (unless you're a Feral Worlder).

The medical kits allow you to use it untrained, so if your trained medic goes down you might be able to save them. But still I agree the Skill is a really important thing.

P.S. Oh, and apparently charging with a melee weapon is good for hitting crap. I'm not sure what the downsides are though. I didn't bother to ask and it hasn't come up. :keke:

Wow.

You guys are learning.

I'm proud of you.

Now maybe we can teach Erik...oh wait.

No.

I've been fighting it hard for a while now, but shit, DH does sound like an interesting game.

However, I don't have the time or money to get into this, so I suggest y'all stop posting about it, kthx.

Quote from: blakkieThe medical kits allow you to use it untrained, so if your trained medic goes down you might be able to save them. But still I agree the Skill is a really important thing.

P.S. Oh, and apparently charging with a melee weapon is good for hitting crap. I'm not sure what the downsides are though. I didn't bother to ask and it hasn't come up. :keke:

Charging gives you +20 for your attack, you can only make one melee attack. Charging is almost strictly an advantage (at least for Melee combat).

Pierce: Get a friend to run it.
 Than you don't have to buy it.
And playing takes less time than running :D

???

I thought you´d play Inquisitors? Why do you have to call them?

No you play acolytes to the inquisition.  You are basically the equivalent to alter boys with guns when it comes to where your place in the grand scheme of things is.  Eventually you may come to be an inquisitor but that's about 15,000 exp away from where you start.  Or to put it into D&D terms.  You start out as 1st level characters and by the time you hit 20th level you may be a full blown Inquisitor.

DH is a very low level game, it's dealing with the shit of society and ferreting them out.  You are an Inquisitors peons and do the grunt work he doesn't want to dirty himself with or is to busy to deal with.

Erik Boielle was right, it seems.
:rolleyes:

Making PC's Inquisitors is basically handing them Lordship of the Realm at 1st level.

There's a reason Birthright didn't go anywhere.

Anyone who agrees with Erik deserves to go play games where he's the GM.

Quote from: SettembriniErik Boielle was right, it seems.
:rolleyes:

In Dark Heresy the relation of Inquisitor to Acolyte is much the same as "head of the secret police" to "secret police death squad". No, scratch that: it's exactly the same. Playing an Inquisitor would entail spending a lot of time sitting behind a desk co-ordinating numerous different teams of acolytes, reading reports, and occasionally rubber-stamping the extermination of a planet.

Quote from: SettembriniErik Boielle was right, it seems.
:rolleyes:

SRSLY. All D&D games should also start out at 20t level so that Epic is only one level away.

Things I've learned thus far:
1. Even the Minor Psychic Powers are awesome.
2. While the game is 'realistically powered', it definitely isn't 'low powered'. It's akin to 'Aliens' and 'Bladerunner' rather than 'Dragonball Z'. The starting PCs my homies made are much more impressive than starting level characters in D&D or Alternity, IMHO.
3. Overwatch is awesome.
4. Overwatch... is... awesome.

-=Grim=-

Quote from: WarthurPlaying an Inquisitor would entail spending a lot of time sitting behind a desk co-ordinating numerous different teams of acolytes, reading reports, and occasionally rubber-stamping the extermination of a planet.

Yes, because thats just what Eisenhorn and Ravenour and Draco spend their trilogies doing.

No wait. They don't.

:rolleyes:

Quote from: Erik BoielleYes, because thats just what Eisenhorn and Ravenour and Draco spend their trilogies doing.

No wait. They don't.

:rolleyes:

You should base every single game you try to play on the books that have already been written.

No reason to get creative or anything.

Quote from: Erik BoielleYes, because thats just what Eisenhorn and Ravenour and Draco spend their trilogies doing.

No wait. They don't.

:rolleyes:

Eisenhorn, Ravenor, and Draco are atypical Inquisitors. That's why people write novels about them. The writeup of the way the Inquisition works in the default sector in Dark Heresy - which, incidentally, was contributed to by Dan Abnett himsef - suggests that most of the Conclave's Inquisitors spend more time playing politics than personally tracking down heretics; for that purpose, they have Acolytes.

So Dark Heresy is the Inquisition Commoner game of 40K?

No one working for the Inquisition is a commoner.

Another criticism I don't fully understand.  Yeah, OK, you aren't the top guys.  But so what?

It's a necessary conceit of the game, IMO.  It serves the purpose of setting up the structure of the game (sent on missions) and giving the PCs a reason to stick together (they are part of the same team).

Again, it's a bit like complaining that the Star Trek RPG doesn't want everyone to be a Captain (or in this case, more like Admiral).  Or why everyone isn't a king in D&D.  Or why no one is the FBI Director in Spycraft.  Etc.

It just doesn't make much sense to have multiple Inquisitors involved in every adventure.  Plus, then you'd still have to keep track of all their NPC minions.

I do think the game could have used some kind of troupe play mode, where everyone switched off between playing the underlings and playing an Inquisitor, but only so many groups are going to want to play that way.  It'd clearly be in the minority.

Maybe there were people out there expecting to be able to play in the 40k universe itself, instead of playing: My life with the Inquisitor.

Quote from: SettembriniMaybe there were people out there expecting to be able to play in the 40k universe itself, instead of playing: My life with the Inquisitor.

The rulebook explicitly stresses keeping the Inquisitor off-stage; you're not constantly under the thumb of your Inquisitor (in fact, we've basically been free agents since session 1, investigating things under our own steam). You're the people who go out and turn the entire 40K universe upside-down to find heretics; your Inquisitor is in theory your superior, but in practice is probably several systems away and so can't exactly watch your every move. They're not meant to be heavy-handed folks slapping the PCs about when they make a wrong move, they're a plot device, a source for new missions when the PCs run out of things to kill, nothing more.

Heck, the way the Inquisition is structured, if you played an Inquisitor you'd still have the head inquisitor of the sector breathing down your neck - and probably watching you more closely. This way, you get to have a wider variety of characters and arguably more freedom than the Inquisitor himself enjoys.

More things I learned from Dark Heresy:

5: It doesn't matter how powerful or important the heretic is; they've always got a political rival somewhere who will be enthusiastic to help you once you convince them that the individual in question is a heretic. (And they're usually very willing to be convinced.) When you're dealing with planetary governors, those rivals usually have platoons of Imperial Guard at their beck and call...

6: Always get the personnel lists and visitor lists from institutions you visit. You never know when you may need to track down each and every person who visited the location in order to terminate them.

7: Psykers with healing powers = D&D clerics.

Quote from: BlackhandNo one working for the Inquisition is a commoner.

My prefab PC was pretty damn close. He's a middle-aged lunchbucket slob from the underhive who, before some clerical error had him charged with murder, had dreams of one day becoming a supervisor of the lunchbucket slobs he worked with.

How did he end up working from the Inquisitor? He fled when he was mistakenly charged and stowed away on a ship that turned out to be the Inquisitor's.  When found he was given the choice of hard vacuum or sign up as a expendable investigator.

P.S. I'm not big on the setting but being able to sneak onto the Inquisitor's ship does sound sort of impressive? Still he's basically a commoner to start with and gets some sort of crash course if someone telling him which end of the gun to point away from himself.

QuoteI do think the game could have used some kind of troupe play mode, where everyone switched off between playing the underlings and playing an Inquisitor...

That could be really cool. A very different game than what DH is but cool. The number of people willing to play it? *shrug*

P.S. One thing that I always missed in D&D, from nearly the begining, was that it wasn't particularly feasible to play the King, or any other person with a sizable number of underlings. It was tough to even play a platoon leader unless you never saw your platoon. If you ever managed to fight your way to become a ruler that was pretty much the end of the game. Of course you need a different game to do that.

Quote from: WarthurThe rulebook explicitly stresses keeping the Inquisitor off-stage; you're not constantly under the thumb of your Inquisitor (in fact, we've basically been free agents since session 1, investigating things under our own steam). You're the people who go out and turn the entire 40K universe upside-down to find heretics; your Inquisitor is in theory your superior, but in practice is probably several systems away and so can't exactly watch your every move. They're not meant to be heavy-handed folks slapping the PCs about when they make a wrong move, they're a plot device, a source for new missions when the PCs run out of things to kill, nothing more.

Heck, the way the Inquisition is structured, if you played an Inquisitor you'd still have the head inquisitor of the sector breathing down your neck - and probably watching you more closely. This way, you get to have a wider variety of characters and arguably more freedom than the Inquisitor himself enjoys.

Sometimes I wonder if some of these guys making this complaint ever played a RPG before.

If the Rogue Trader game came out first, you'd be the crew of the rogue trader - every PC wouldn't be an independent rogue trader.  If the Space Marine game came out first, you'd be the space marine soldiers, not the space marine commander.  DUH.

Again, this is pretty standard RPG fare.  Games where the PCs start out as the top dogs in the setting are in the extreme minority.

Quote from: blakkieThat could be really cool. A very different game than what DH is but cool. The number of people willing to play it? *shrug*

P.S. One thing that I always missed in D&D, from nearly the begining, was that it wasn't particularly feasible to play the King, or any other person with a sizable number of underlings. It was tough to even play a platoon leader unless you never saw your platoon. If you ever managed to fight your way to become a ruler that was pretty much the end of the game. Of course you need a different game to do that.

Probably because playing the king or whatever would be dreadfully boring most of the time.  The game basically ceases to be a role-playing game and becomes more of a Civilization type game.  The whole "adventuring party" concept is basically out the window at that point.

That said, some games have tried to do this.  Doesn't that Reign game do something like that?

Quote from: jgantsProbably because playing the king or whatever would be dreadfully boring most of the time.

Yeah that's what Kull told me. (http://www.ackland.org/tours/images/westall-lg.JPG)

QuoteThe game basically ceases to be a role-playing game and becomes more of a Civilization type game.

With D&D I suppose. Though even then it doesn't have to be. It just is tough to adjust and the bulk of the kill-things-and-take-their-stuff rules [EDIT: which is overall a pretty big chunk of the rules] don't get as much use.

EDIT: Changed Conan to the somewhat more appropriate Kull. :duh:

Quote from: jgantsThat said, some games have tried to do this.  Doesn't that Reign game do something like that?

Yeah, though a) REIGN gives fairly significant boosts to Company actions (organisational-level actions) if the PCs are able to advance the plan in uptime in a significant way through adventuring (for example, stealing the enemy battle plans the day before the big battle), and Company dice pools tend to be low enough (especially at the more low-powered end of the scale) there's a real incentive to do some adventuring, and b) there's nothing explicitly hardwired into REIGN which says your PCs have to be the leaders of your Company - you can play a bunch of low-level goons for adventuring, and then step OOC to decide your Company's actions.

Quote from: jgantsSometimes I wonder if some of these guys making this complaint ever played a RPG before.

Hell, I'm pretty sure the majority of DH critics here are only working on what they heard other people say, having never read or played the rules themselves.

-=Grim=-

I have never tried it, but your comments will keep it that way.
:rolleyes:

Quote from: GrimJestaHell, I'm pretty sure the majority of DH critics here are only working on what they heard other people say, having never read or played the rules themselves.

-=Grim=-

What annoys me is the people who criticize the game for being things was never intended to be.

And many of the criticisms about the PCs being minions instead of masters blatantly ignores that nearly every other popular RPG in the market does the exact same thing.

For better or worse, one of the defining archetypal aspects of a RPG is character improvement over time.  For every person who hates "zero to hero" progression, you will find a hundred people who absolutely love it.

Quote from: SettembriniI have never tried it, but your comments will keep it that way.
:rolleyes:

So there! :snooty:

!i!

QuoteWhat annoys me is the people who criticize the game for being things was never intended to be.

Hey - I think its conceptually ididotic. AND not very good. 70% chance of failure?

QuoteAnd many of the criticisms about the PCs being minions instead of masters blatantly ignores that nearly every other popular RPG in the market does the exact same thing.

DnD? Exalted? Rifts? Vampire?

There basically are no (popular) games where the PCs are explicitly lackeys of someone else who is cooler than them.

And DnD characters get better fast - you can probably figure out how many sessions it takes for a DnD character overtake a maxed out 75 session DH pc.

Broken...Record...Go...Away...

Quote from: Erik BoielleDnD? Exalted? Rifts? Vampire?

There basically are no (popular) games where the PCs are explicitly lackeys of someone else who is cooler than them.

What I was getting at was there are two extremely common ways of playing RPGs using the "mission style" approach (which is one of the more popular ways of playing RPGs):

1. The characters are tasked to perform specific missions by someone.
2. The characters are hired to perform specific missions by someone.

In either case, the characters are essentially lackeys, whether or not the relationship is explicit.

The point here is that working for the inquisitor is a gaming conceit to explain where their missions come from.  You're not supposed to run the game as a "run around and watch the inquisitor do cool stuff" type of game.  You're supposed to run the game as a regular, mission-style RPG where the inquisitor is just the guy giving you the job.  He's the mysterious old man in the inn, if you will.

Quote from: jgantsAnd many of the criticisms about the PCs being minions instead of masters blatantly ignores that nearly every other popular RPG in the market does the exact same thing.

That, right there... THAT is what fucking annoys me. EVERY OTHER RPG already does this.  

Maybe... just fucking maybe... some of us are fucking tired of having to start artificially stupid just to play out the same tired.fucking.story.


The worst part of it is this: It doesn't have to be this way. We COULD have our cake and eat it too. There is plenty of information out there that suggests that a starting inquisitor ISN"T the bee's knees.

I mean, sure, he's one step shy of being God Incarnate to most of the punks that make up the Imperium. So what.  So's a simple street Arbiter with a shotgun, what's your point?

More to the point: An Inquisitor and a retinue is not an unplayable group structure. The Inquistor has the political power, and plays the game with the rest of teh Inquisition, but Tech Priests are a power unto themselves, and generally the rest of a Retinue is better at whatever teh fuck that persons job is than the Inquistor is.

Presto! You get your niche play too! Wow. Whuda thunkit?



But no.


For Dark Heresy they essentially made up an entire new layer of peons below the inquisition, just for this game mind you, just so you could struggle with streetgangs and the like.

You aren't 'Secret Police' you are 'Secret Police informers and occasional deputies'.

I'm glad Warthur and Kysst had fun with their games. Really I am. I envy them their GM's.  

Because the game does not support investigating and taking down planetary governors.  


Hell, matching DH up to the Inquisition as we have been given to understand it: It's like joining a Star Wars game and being handed a Serenity RPG. Maybe Serenity is good, maybe you like it; but motherfucker, it is not, doesn't even share the same chapters as, Star Wars.  

That is about the same relationship between Dark Heresy and the source matterial already out about the Inquisition.

THAT above all else, is what irritates the shit out of me.

That and ' This game tastes like chocolate, I like chocolate, therefore all you whiny bitchs complaining are just wrong, because chocolate is good.'

Sorry, Jgants, but I wanted fucking Vanilla.  

So get off your fucking high horse and stop telling me to eat motherfucking chocolate and like it.

Spike - every single line of your above post is so idiotic I have trouble believing that you are capable of being this stupid.

Now you've reduced your bitch about DH to "it's just like every other game"?

You people waffle more than U.S. Presidential Candidates.

Quote from: SpikeSo get off your fucking high horse and stop telling me to eat motherfucking chocolate and like it.

You'll eat your chocolate and like it mister, or no brussel sprouts for dessert for you!  Err...wait...

I agree with you, actually, that playing the game as an Inquisitor + retinue would make even more sense and is a perfectly playable structure.  I just don't think the majority of the market would agree; they like having equal characters (just look at 4e D&D).

Hey Spike, Erik and Sett. Get the fuck out of this thread. You trolling peices of shit have never played the fucking game, so what the fuck have you learned about it???? What the fuck do you have to say about it????


#1 Thing I learned: Dark Heresy is fun!

#2 Thing I learned: Dark Heresy is not about playing an Inquisitor.

Quote from: KrakaJakHey Spike, Erik and Sett. Get the fuck out of this thread. You trolling peices of shit have never played the fucking game, so what the fuck have you learned about it???? What the fuck do you have to say about it????


#1 Thing I learned: Dark Heresy is fun!

#2 Thing I learned: Dark Heresy is not about playing an Inquisitor.

...and the customers/players who were at my gaming store would agree with you Krakky!

My Manager GM-ed DARK HERESY RPG sessions for the past 2 weeks on Sunday afternoons at our store's gaming tables.
 Everuone had smiles on their faces and had a good time. They even lingered after the game ...going over it and looking forward to the next session.

 So - I'm not a player , but it looks like a game that people CAN have fun with.

- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarSo - I'm not a player , but it looks like a game that people CAN have fun with.

This is true for all games, koltar.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RThis is true for all games, koltar.

The nuance I'm getting from Koltar's post is that, by the standards of the various demonstration games that have been run in Koltar's shop over time, Dark Heresy seems to be one of the more successful ones. Is that correct, Koltar?

Quote from: SpikeThat, right there... THAT is what fucking annoys me. EVERY OTHER RPG already does this.  

Maybe... just fucking maybe... some of us are fucking tired of having to start artificially stupid just to play out the same tired.fucking.story.

And a bunch of other ramblings.

Normally you don't sound like a raving lunatic, but you've completely jumped off the deep end here.

Quote from: kryystNormally you don't sound like a raving lunatic, but you've completely jumped off the deep end here.

Sometimes its just called for.

And Krackajack: Bite me, bitch. I ran the fucker. Once.  Not suitable for my players, sadly. And still a disappointment.

Quote from: SpikeSometimes its just called for.

And Krackajack: Bite me, bitch. I ran the fucker. Once.  Not suitable for my players, sadly. And still a disappointment.

Lay off Kraka.

He can't help you're a fucking idiot.

Edited- turned into a PM,

Admins Delete this post please :D

I say yr favourite football teams don't score many goals, and yr breath isn't all that flash, either!

All of you!



Including ME!

This is off topic C.Jay but...

In Australia, when you say 'football' do you mean American Football or English Football?

Quote from: WarthurThe nuance I'm getting from Koltar's post is that, by the standards of the various demonstration games that have been run in Koltar's shop over time, Dark Heresy seems to be one of the more successful ones. Is that correct, Koltar?

It went over VERY well - Yes, I'd have to say that.
 Both of those Sundays I didn't have to work - I had meetings connected to a local convention that I had to be at. But when the meeting got done - I stopped by the store curious as to how the game went over.

The first Sunday - 7 to 8 players having a damn good time with probably an hoyr left to go. They were really into it. My manager ran a suggested adenture Scenario that had been posted to the web.  I walked around the Mall, came back to the store....and even tho the game session was over, the players were lingering  and adding experience points (correct term for DH?) and buying equipment for their next aedventure.

 Last weekl, my manager ran an adventure that he had outlined/written up himself. Again I stopped in about an hour before the store closed - game session was over this time....but a few players were hanging around and they said all 6 or 7 that played had a good time.

Probably helps that my manager LIKES the Warhammer 40K universe and knows it pretty well.

All I know is we had happy customers after both game sessions.  So thats cool with me.  
WAIT!! Realize its actually been THREE game sessiions  - that convention meeting that I go to is every other week. So, they've actualy had 3 successful game sessions where they had a good time.

- Ed C.

Quote from: BlackhandThis is off topic C.Jay but...

In Australia, when you say 'football' do you mean American Football or English Football?

In Melbourne, he would mean Australian Rules:

(http://www.madeinoz.com/mfsd.jpg)

But who knows what those Sydneysiders mean...

Quote from: BlackhandThis is off topic C.Jay but...

In Australia, when you say 'football' do you mean American Football or English Football?

Generally we use it as a broad, umbrella term, taking in Soccer, Aussie Rules, Rugby League, Rugby Union, American, whatever.  Kind of like athletics, swimming or cycling can cover many types of events.

Confused?  We certainly are.

You can usually assume we're not talking about American, at least.  It has no following or presence out here to speak of.  We never really sure what to call it.

Things I have learned

After playing DH and then playing video games like Gears of War DH characters are generally more badass.

Quote from: kryystAfter playing DH and then playing video games like Gears of War DH characters are generally more badass.

And mommy said it was okay to ride the short bus because it just mean't you were Special eh?

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/30780.html

Congratulations you put up another game trailer for yet another game, not even Gears of War to try and prove a point.  I mean hell the GoW2 trailer (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/splash/g/gearsofwar2/default.htm) is out now you could at least have put that up.

Fuck your an idiot and you continue to prove it every chance you get.

The bottom line though is that this fantasy world you live in where DH characters are wimps doesn't exist.   It also falls perfectly in line with the 40k mini game, the majority of fiction and most video games you've put up.

Its not the winning, its the taking part.

Quote from: Erik BoielleIts not the winning, its the taking part.

Only if you count 'winning' as 'getting your mouth shat in by everyone who stops by'.

You 'win'.

Things I've learned:


1. There's no problem so big that exterminatus can't handle.

2. There's no reason to let anyone you deal with believe that you *can't* call down exterminatus. As far as they're concerned, they're dealing with the Emperor's will incarnate.

3. Heresy comes in many forms. Sometimes it's hiding the truth. Sometimes it's protecting a loved heretic. Sometimes it's openly calling into question the actions of another PC inquisitor. All these problems can be solved by the healing power of melta.

4. There are few problems that can't be solved by guns. Enemy far away? Longarm. Enemy close? Full-auto combat shotgun. Enemy taking cover? Grenade launcher.

5. There's absolutely no reason for anyone under suspicion of heresy to possess weaponry. If they will not hand over the weaponry, they are defying the will of the Emperor, and thus show their true colors.

6. Armor. Get used to it. Love it, learn it.

7. One squad will be sufficient.

8. The Emperor has dictated your squad's weaponry.