Is there any likelihood of a CRPG based on GURPS? IIRC, the Fallout CRPG was originally going to use GURPS before the companies split.

I'd disagree. The various VTT software solutions have benefited greatly from 5e and they almost all support lesser known rpgs.  That may be the best way to grow small title rpgs as it gives you an easy way to find/introduce new players.

I'd rather they reprint 3rd edition than make a new one.  I hated 4e Gurps in just about every way.  Way, way more complicated than I wanted and the artwork was an abortion. 

As usual like Hero Games when it comes to Gurps SJGames takes every opportunity to miss an opportunity imo.

Gurps would need a new company other than SJGames to really take off. With 4E some were and are still asking for Gurps Vehicles and they instead offer 4E Discworld and Mars Attacks. Then wonder why many fans were not buying. I can kind of understand why they did the first the second was more of a head shaking "why the hell is SJGames even wasting time and resources on the second.

Yes I know Vehicles is still being "worked on" yet it has been for more than decade. So unless it hits stores or the PDF is released for me it is the rpg version of vapourware.

Another thing that hurts Gurps is the fanabase. Many lament and moan how they can't find any GMs and players to run/play with yet also want nothing to change. Good luck with finding those players and GMs. Especially when hiding behind the sunken cost fallacy.

They did luck out with Munchkin as it is probably the only thing keeping SJGames alive at this point. If they never had that product they would be in the same sad state as Hero Games.

Quote from: David Johansen on April 23, 2021, 10:10:31 AMWorse still, no world books, has been policy for a long time now. 

World books were always the most popular part of GURPS 3e. Whether they made money or not I don't venture to guess - but everyone knew about and loved them. They were the main entry for most into GURPS. I saw this when I was a MiB for SJGames and went around running intro sessions for them at game stores. After those sessions, someone would always buy a world book - not many bought a rule book.

Once the old runs of 3e world books were all sold, I couldn't get much interest for 4e intro game sessions.

They chose to give up on the world books and go for the gearhead stuff instead. Much like Traveller 5e. That's what comes of listening to your online forum fan base instead of actual gamers.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on April 23, 2021, 11:27:22 PM


They chose to give up on the world books and go for the gearhead stuff instead. Much like Traveller 5e. That's what comes of listening to your online forum fan base instead of actual gamers.

I disagree. There was a lot of push for an introductory version of Traveller when rumblings of T5 began. 13Mann was working on Liftoff, a starter version of Traveller before the project got cancelled for reasons unknown.

Traveller5 is gearhead-ish, but it also is made for people who have been playing Traveller for decades. Traveller5 is definitely not made for a gamer looking for a new game to by introduced to and try out.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 23, 2021, 11:38:15 PM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on April 23, 2021, 11:27:22 PM


They chose to give up on the world books and go for the gearhead stuff instead. Much like Traveller 5e. That's what comes of listening to your online forum fan base instead of actual gamers.

I disagree. There was a lot of push for an introductory version of Traveller when rumblings of T5 began. 13Mann was working on Liftoff, a starter version of Traveller before the project got cancelled for reasons unknown.

Traveller5 is gearhead-ish, but it also is made for people who have been playing Traveller for decades. Traveller5 is definitely not made for a gamer looking for a new game to by introduced to and try out.

With Cepheus Engine you already have several smaller system games, Light, Faster than Light and Atom, plus full games being developed with the chasis of Cepheus but for other genres.

GURPS and HERO need to do the same, a simplified entry version of the system and Full games on their genres, What happened to Fantasy, Star, Pulp, Cyber, etc HERO? Did they really not sell?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 11:58:37 PM

With Cepheus Engine you already have several smaller system games, Light, Faster than Light and Atom, plus full games being developed with the chasis of Cepheus but for other genres.

You aren't wrong, but the distinction should be made that Cepheus Engine is the OGL version of Traveller, and not Officially Traveller. Cepheus Engine is what Mongoose Traveller 1e could have evolved in to if given the chance.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 23, 2021, 11:38:15 PM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on April 23, 2021, 11:27:22 PM


They chose to give up on the world books and go for the gearhead stuff instead. Much like Traveller 5e. That's what comes of listening to your online forum fan base instead of actual gamers.

I disagree. There was a lot of push for an introductory version of Traveller when rumblings of T5 began. 13Mann was working on Liftoff, a starter version of Traveller before the project got cancelled for reasons unknown.

Traveller5 is gearhead-ish, but it also is made for people who have been playing Traveller for decades. Traveller5 is definitely not made for a gamer looking for a new game to by introduced to and try out.

Haven't looked at T5 in a couple ages or so, did they ever fix the errata from the first printing. Drove me off more than the rules

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 23, 2021, 09:10:53 PM
Is there any likelihood of a CRPG based on GURPS? IIRC, the Fallout CRPG was originally going to use GURPS before the companies split.

I met a guy that was involved in turning GURPS into an RPG for Interplay. It was off the record so I will not make any names.

Basically, he told me that the whole agreement fell apart because "It was just impossible to work with SJ." He had no knowledge about the process of creating a videogame but wanted to have a say in everything. He asked for changes in parts of the code that were "locked", not understanding that you can't change a code the way you can fire up a word processor and rewrite a rule or a description in a PnP RPG.

At the end the decision become simple: SJ was contractually able to be PitA but Interplay was also able to pull off the contract when they wanted. They went for the second option and built up, instead, a proprietary ruleset.

"You know what SJ hated the most?" this guy told me. "The Pip Boy. Go figure."

Given the success of the franchise, I always wondered how much money SJ lost by being an ass.

Quote from: Reckall on April 24, 2021, 07:04:33 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 23, 2021, 09:10:53 PM
Is there any likelihood of a CRPG based on GURPS? IIRC, the Fallout CRPG was originally going to use GURPS before the companies split.

I met a guy that was involved in turning GURPS into an RPG for Interplay. It was off the record so I will not make any names.

Basically, he told me that the whole agreement fell apart because "It was just impossible to work with SJ." He had no knowledge about the process of creating a videogame but wanted to have a say in everything. He asked for changes in parts of the code that were "locked", not understanding that you can't change a code the way you can fire up a word processor and rewrite a rule or a description in a PnP RPG.

At the end the decision become simple: SJ was contractually able to be PitA but Interplay was also able to pull off the contract when they wanted. They went for the second option and built up, instead, a proprietary ruleset.

"You know what SJ hated the most?" this guy told me. "The Pip Boy. Go figure."

Given the success of the franchise, I always wondered how much money SJ lost by being an ass.

Fallout was actually pretty obscure until the IP was bought by Bethesda. SJ probably wouldn't have made much from royalties, relatively speaking. Bethesda would've most likely opted out of the contract rather than continue paying royalties, even if SJ didn't annoy them.

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 24, 2021, 02:57:48 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 11:58:37 PM

With Cepheus Engine you already have several smaller system games, Light, Faster than Light and Atom, plus full games being developed with the chasis of Cepheus but for other genres.

You aren't wrong, but the distinction should be made that Cepheus Engine is the OGL version of Traveller, and not Officially Traveller. Cepheus Engine is what Mongoose Traveller 1e could have evolved in to if given the chance.

Mongoose put their Traveller 1e under OGL. Cepheus is an IP-less restatement of that OGL.

So, Cepheus is an evolution of Mongoose 1e. Just not where Mongoose took the brand. And that bothers me not one whit, because we have Cepheus.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 24, 2021, 08:34:19 AM
Fallout was actually pretty obscure until the IP was bought by Bethesda. SJ probably wouldn't have made much from royalties, relatively speaking.

Not true. Fallout was a big success in 1997 terms. According to Brian Fargo, it ultimately sold about 600,000 copies.

https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=10604

Fallout 2 was a success too, even if I haven't hard numbers. I was working as a freelance videogame journalist at the time, and between Baldur's Gate and Fallout everybody hoped that traditional computer RPGs were back after the slump in the mid '90s. True, Bethesda turned the franchise into a mega-hit, but in 2008, i.e. in very different times (I was there, too, BTW, when they unveiled F3  )

Quote from: This Guy on April 24, 2021, 03:01:32 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on April 23, 2021, 11:38:15 PM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on April 23, 2021, 11:27:22 PM


They chose to give up on the world books and go for the gearhead stuff instead. Much like Traveller 5e. That's what comes of listening to your online forum fan base instead of actual gamers.

I disagree. There was a lot of push for an introductory version of Traveller when rumblings of T5 began. 13Mann was working on Liftoff, a starter version of Traveller before the project got cancelled for reasons unknown.

Traveller5 is gearhead-ish, but it also is made for people who have been playing Traveller for decades. Traveller5 is definitely not made for a gamer looking for a new game to by introduced to and try out.

Haven't looked at T5 in a couple ages or so, did they ever fix the errata from the first printing. Drove me off more than the rules

If i remember correctly with release of T 5.1 they splittet the book in three smaller ones and put the errata in it.

GURPS Vehicles is to GURPS as Squats used to be to Warhammer 40000.  It's not happening.  My understanding is that it's completely written but the editing and crosschecking is too much work for the one guy who's qualified to do it.  But also, GURPS Vehicles is seen as having had a negative impact on GURPS' reputation.

Traveller 5.1 is indeed three books.  They added a couple hundred pages, most of it explanations and clarifications.  The awful and non-functional 5.09 combat system has been removed.  But there are still plenty of problems and a moose is still the ultimate antitank weapon in the game.  As it's a known issue an the table had other errors corrected one can only assume Marc believes this to be an accurate and correct ruling.  Rogues are still broken as they only have to roll for stuff on one attribute of their choice and there's no penalty for the cash value of the scheme.  If you thought nobles with status over 20 were broken in 5.0 you ain't seen nuthin' yet.  A rogue with a 12 in one attribute can pretty much buy the galaxy at no personal risk.