Quote from: Pat;1042177Morgan Ironwolf is wearing a mail hauberk that hangs below her waist, and high boots, so we can't see cuffs or a belt. And her pants aren't black or fishy, so they're not dark or made of mail. So there are no visual cues based on texture, color, pattern, or material. But she's wearing pants, because it's the most parsimonious theory to everyone, except horny teenage boys.

Nope.  I don't agree.  Next thing you'll tell me is that Bast's bare boobs are just a really tight shirt.  Dee drew other characters in that same top/boots/bare leg look and colored them so it's just one of his common looks.  

Yes, I'm saying he lied.  I once asked Kevin Long why he drew dinosaur mechs with double barreled dick lasers.  He said he never drew anything with dick lasers.  Artists sometimes lie.

Morgan Ironwolf was drawn to be hot.  Because Moldvay D&D was intended for teenage boys.  There's nothing wrong with that.  She isn't obscene. It isn't any sillier than anything else in the game.

Quote from: Gabriel2;1042181Next thing you'll tell me is that Bast's bare boobs are just a really tight shirt.

You have some serious issues with anatomy.

Quote from: Krimson;1041419Certainly there are many in the OSR who are Conservative,

I did not know there were any conservatives creating product in the OSR. I wish I knew who they were so I could support them. As I see it, you have to hunt long and hard to find a blog that is middle of the road, since almost everything you can find is left wing SJW stuff. The same with forums, they are almost exclusively run by the left wing SJW crowd. I belong to most of the D&D/RPG forums, but my posts are few and far between. I have seen too many people banned for innocuous middle of the road comments. I don't know of any Alt-Right people on a personal level. Everyone I know personally that is conservative believes in equal pay for equal work for women and minorities, is against sexual harassment and have women and minorities in their table top campaigns.

My favorite misconception being brought forth is the belief that gaming was hostile to minorities (POC and GBLT). See while race could be determined by characteristics of the human in person, nobody was asking for people to divulge their gender identities or sexual preferences at the game table and people usually never volunteered that information. I have never heard of anyone ever giving two shits about that. I have heard of people caring whether or not someone was an asshole, but asshole comes in all sorts of shapes and sizes.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1042145That is a surreal suggestion.

Is it? Women get attacked all the time for being conservative.

Heck, we just had a kerfuffle where the president's daughter was verbally berated by the darling of the left, and the president's duaghter is basically a liberal.

Before that, a woman was harassed for posing for her college photo with a gun. Then there was that teenage girl who wore a chinese dress to the prom. Just recently some news organization doxxed a random woman on twitter they deemed a "conservative troll".  There's no shortage of this stuff.

While I probably doubt that's the case here, it's hardly an outlandish suggestion. When a minority (or women) are left (or far left enought), they are considered traitors and attacked.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042130Ok, because I'm sure that people are just going to assume this is a troll question, let me assure you this is a legitimate question, because if there are any I'd love to check their work out:

Are there any female OSR designers?

Not that I know of currently. If you expand out the category some, Stacy Dellaforno is pansexual genderqueer/fluid, and they wrote the adventure Zaya's Promise for Swords & Wizardry, as well as the laying out the 3rd printing of the game. When I look at this list of OSR games, I don't see any typically female names, but there could be some women.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_H0k9fPlaKxARMYB4WLpTJwyNc6oOLwQGUlKUMgs-JU/edit#gid=0

Quote from: LarsdanglyThat is a surreal suggestion.

Quote from: JeremyR;1042195Is it? Women get attacked all the time for being conservative.

I'd be interested to hear from any women that are avoiding the OSR for fear of SJW backlash. I'm not interested in wild speculation that they might exist, though.

Quote from: Gabriel2;1042181Nope.  I don't agree.  Next thing you'll tell me is that Bast's bare boobs are just a really tight shirt.  Dee drew other characters in that same top/boots/bare leg look and colored them so it's just one of his common looks.  

Yes, I'm saying he lied.  I once asked Kevin Long why he drew dinosaur mechs with double barreled dick lasers.  He said he never drew anything with dick lasers.  Artists sometimes lie.

Morgan Ironwolf was drawn to be hot.  Because Moldvay D&D was intended for teenage boys.  There's nothing wrong with that.  She isn't obscene. It isn't any sillier than anything else in the game.

You're an idiot.  Morgan has exactly the kind of texture Pat is talking about on her inner right thigh.  Also the extra shadows on the left knee show some kind of pants going into the boot not to mention the way the left leg is drawn.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042121The number has increased, but if you think that the amount is anywhere near proportional that is just laughable.

Proportional would be one LGBT person of any type for every 24 straight people in the industry. If a company has 10 employees and two of them were LGBT then actual proportional representation of the population would require one or both be fired and replaced with straight people.

Likewise, proportional representation would be two out of every three people in the gaming company being non-hispanic whites and only 1 out of 8 being "Black or African American" (as its categorized in the census). 1 out of 4 needs to have voted for Donald Trump (62M of 235M eligible voters), nearly 5 out of 11 would need to support Trump now (45% in the latest RCP average) and no more than 1 out of 4 would be allowed to have voted for Hillary (2 out of 4 would have to have not voted) in order to proportionately represent the population.

So which Left-leaning employees should lose their jobs at WotC, Onyx Path, Green Ronin, etc. to bring them into line with proportional representation of the population?

Or can we admit that you don't want proportional representation; you want special consideration for certain groups and discrimination against other groups based on their race, sex and sexual orientation.

If that's what you want, go ahead and argue for it... but be honest about it, don't hide behind lies like "proportional representation" when you'd never actually be happy with truly proportional representation.

Quote from: jhkim;1042198Not that I know of currently. If you expand out the category some...

Scrap Princess is an artist rather than an author (Deep Carbon Observatory, Veins of the Earth), but Fire on the Velvet Horizon blurs the difference a tad (it's a monster book with stats based on her art), but women artists in the OSR seem a lot more common than designers. There are also a smattering of written contributions to shorter-form products, like one page dungeons, articles in Fight On!, Secret Santicore responses, and so on. But I'm drawing on a blank on longer-form written works, as well.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042041How exactly is having a rare blessing of Corellon Larethian grant the ability to change gender, or the existence of LGBT characters in adventures, fucking up the game?

It's the bigger picture. It's using this sort of political pandering to impose their larger agenda on gaming, and then to rely on an argument you've relied on here, where anyone who criticizes the bigger agenda is accused of wanting to be mean to trans kids.

As someone said, "Weaponized Compassion".

And note that the LGBT kid who played in my DCC game was quite excited about getting a random mercurial effect where every time they cast magic missile it made their wizard change gender.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042162I would put money on this forum being much much more white, straight, and male than the general population.

White - I think not, lots of east-Asian & Latino posters here.
Straight - no, it only takes a few non-straight to hit general population %s. But I'm sure it's straighter than other RPG boards and likely straighter than the general RPG playing population.
Male - definitely, though this is true of all RPG posting boards.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042089Here is the other question though: If everyone was already so inclusive, why do pro inclusive game designers bother anyone?

That's a bit like saying "If everyone thinks that we should care about the poor, why would Venezuelan Socialism upset anyone? They say they care about the poor, after all!"

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042169Also, virtue signalling in this case actually doesn't make sense.

The whole concept of it in signal theory is that we virtue signal the "correct virtues" in order to raise our standing within a group. You'll notice that the virtues I'm expressing here have done the opposite of help me fit in, or raise my standing here.

Well you could be virtue signalling to raise your status with others who are reading your posts but are not part of the community here, since this is a public forum.

Personally I don't care if you are virtue signalling or not, I think it's irrelevant to your arguments which I'm sure you genuinely believe, misguided though they generally are.  It doesn't seem like a clear case of virtue signalling to me; I agree that usually VS is done in places where there will be no negative feedback to the virtue signaller.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042139To be fair, even the artist wasn't entirely sure. "Yes, I think so."

You are of course free to dismiss the artist's thoughts about it. Just as you are free to imagine a character as naked below the waist if that's how you want see it. But I wouldn't assume that just because you see something means 99% of other people see it the same way. This picture is a bit like a Rorschach test. Personally, I see pants.

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Jeff Dee loves thighs... and calves. And especially clothing that flares out by the ankles. Ooh, and gaunt faces with high cheekbones, and voluminous straight hair! But yeah, totally about the ankle flares and bellbottoms.

This, and Album Rock Cover Art, is why Sword & Sorcery will forever conceptually be in '70s fashion for me. Conan wears fat ties and leisure suits to banquets. :cool: