Quote from: jeff37923;1042050So the Virtue Signalling by WotC is what gives them the biggest cash flow and not continuing to try and peddle Tabletop WoW. Gotcha.

Actually I think it's Magic Cards.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042045"Trust me, I have a rational reason that makes me not sound like an asshole who doesn't want LGBT people represented in their game, I'm not going to tell you what it is, but really, I do!"

So, you are just trolling here. Good to know. I can stop trying to act like you are intellectually honest then.

I do find it interesting that this pushback from you on this issue coincides with the Supreme Court siding with Masterpiece Cakeshop in a 7-2 ruling.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1042039I obviously don't buy that the OSR is over run with alt-right nit-wits. If it were I wouldn't have anything to do with it. The OSR is mostly nerdy game stuff focused on games I happen to think are worth playing.

But there is definitely a vocal minority here who get their panties in a bunch about the horrors of inclusive art work or statements on race and gender. If you are one of those people, then you absolutely are part of the alt-right nitwit fringe, and you deserve to have all those shrill left wing fingers pointed at you. Why do you give a shit if there is a picture of a woman in plate armor or a sentence somewhere about transgendered characters or whatever? How does that impact you at all? And if you don't like it for some reason, why don't you just ignore it and play all the dozens and hundreds of games out there that don't do any of those things?

This guy gets it.

Quote from: jeff37923;1042049For me, it involves pointing out the hypocrisy of it, because when this first showed up as the infamous sidebar during the initial launch of D&D 5E it was ham-fisted and failed to acknowledge that gamers have been "woke" for years without crowing about it. Feel free to go back and find my posts here about that. Just because you Virtue Signal, doesn't mean that the particular virtue you are signalling was not already present - it just means that the Virtue Signaller thinks that they are special for reinventing the wheel.

I've been playing TTRPGs for a long, long time. Not as long as some people here, but since the 80s. The idea that gaming was already oh so inclusive for all these years is frankly bullshit. Some home games, sure. Every persons home game has been its own experience, and always will be. Maybe your home game has always been inclusive, and if that is the case CONGRATULATIONS THAT IS FUCKING GREAT.

But to act like the entire industry has always been super inclusive, to act like it was some special part of society that somehow managed to figure shit out before everyone else did, fucking bull, shit.

Hell, society hasn't even figured that shit out yet. I live in a country that elected a man president who literally talked about grabbing women by the pussy without consent. Your belief that roleplayers somehow have always been more enlightened is beyond absurd.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042060I've been playing TTRPGs for a long, long time. Not as long as some people here, but since the 80s. The idea that gaming was already oh so inclusive for all these years is frankly bullshit. Some home games, sure. Every persons home game has been its own experience, and always will be. Maybe your home game has always been inclusive, and if that is the case CONGRATULATIONS THAT IS FUCKING GREAT.

But to act like the entire industry has always been super inclusive, to act like it was some special part of society that somehow managed to figure shit out before everyone else did, fucking bull, shit.

Hell, society hasn't even figured that shit out yet. I live in a country that elected a man who literally talked about grabbing women by the pussy without consent. Your belief that roleplayers somehow have always been more enlightened is beyond absurd.

Somehow I think that this argument of yours is less about the TTRPG hobby or industry and more about your dislike of our current president. Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042060I've been playing TTRPGs for a long, long time. Not as long as some people here, but since the 80s. The idea that gaming was already oh so inclusive for all these years is frankly bullshit. Some home games, sure. Every persons home game has been its own experience, and always will be. Maybe your home game has always been inclusive, and if that is the case CONGRATULATIONS THAT IS FUCKING GREAT.

But to act like the entire industry has always been super inclusive, to act like it was some special part of society that somehow managed to figure shit out before everyone else did, fucking bull, shit.

Hell, society hasn't even figured that shit out yet. I live in a country that elected a man president who literally talked about grabbing women by the pussy without consent. Your belief that roleplayers somehow have always been more enlightened is beyond absurd.

It isn't the gaming industry's mission to be "super inclusive"

It is to make money, and entertain people while doing it

The idea that some RPG publisher needs to put man-boy-love into the latest rule book, or transexuals into Castle Greyhawk, simply because some people demanded it, is absurd.

Likewise, Evangelical Christians shouldn't dictate what gets put into the next Dungeon Masters Guide either.

Unless, of course, the RPG industry wants to go the way of the comic book publishers. Marvel continues to gender swap its heroes, replace iconic characters with teenagers of every conceivable minority group, etc., while watching its sales go down 80% from where they were decades ago. Being "inclusive" doesn't translate into sales.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042060I've been playing TTRPGs for a long, long time. Not as long as some people here, but since the 80s. The idea that gaming was already oh so inclusive for all these years is frankly bullshit. Some home games, sure. Every persons home game has been its own experience, and always will be. Maybe your home game has always been inclusive, and if that is the case CONGRATULATIONS THAT IS FUCKING GREAT.

But to act like the entire industry has always been super inclusive, to act like it was some special part of society that somehow managed to figure shit out before everyone else did, fucking bull, shit.

Hell, society hasn't even figured that shit out yet. I live in a country that elected a man president who literally talked about grabbing women by the pussy without consent. Your belief that roleplayers somehow have always been more enlightened is beyond absurd.

Horseshit right back. The hobby has always been inclusive, before the idea of inclusion became the progressive beat stick. And I'm pretty sure Trump wasn't the cause. Tossing him in there is a pointless distraction from you not having any evidence for your assertation.

You aren't the first male to think he's the special one who's different from all the mean, unenlightened, cavemen.

Quote from: jeff37923;1042061Somehow I think that this argument of yours is less about the TTRPG hobby or industry and more about your dislike of our current president. Shine on, you crazy diamond.

Or, or maybe, let's just go with the actual argument I was making: The RPG field is not some magically immune part of society that is completely different from the rest of the world, and I was pointing out that the rest of the world isn't that great.

But sure man. I came to this site, specifically to bitch at people because Trump is president, despite him having been president now for a year and a half, and only just mentioned him for the first time probably several dozen posts in as an example of society being kind of fucked on the inclusitivity thing, and not because I was about to start a new campaign for the first time in a long while and wanted to talk about D&D, and instead get met with the same old same old bullshit about how bad it is that someone got LGBT in their elf-games.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1042065Horseshit right back. The hobby has always been inclusive, before the idea of inclusion became the progressive beat stick. And I'm pretty sure Trump wasn't the cause. Tossing him in there is a pointless distraction from you not having any evidence for your assertation.

You aren't the first male to think he's the special one who's different from all the mean, unenlightened, cavemen.

Didn't a designer just recently get accused of harassment by multiple, separate women who had no connection to one another? But sure. No. The RPG community is so enlightened. It is clearly a utopia. If only the rest of society could learn from us. Then maybe we could get down to some really important issues, like how 4e D&D is complete trash and anyone who plays it is wrong at roleplaying.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042066Or, or maybe, let's just go with the actual argument I was making: The RPG field is not some magically immune part of society that is completely different from the rest of the world, and I was pointing out that the rest of the world isn't that great.

But sure man. I came to this site, specifically to bitch at people because Trump is president, despite him having been president now for a year and a half, and only just mentioned him for the first time probably several dozen posts in as an example of society being kind of fucked on the inclusitivity thing, and not because I was about to start a new campaign for the first time in a long while and wanted to talk about D&D, and instead get met with the same old same old bullshit about how bad it is that someone got LGBT in their elf-games.

There's literally none of that in this thread. At all.

It's almost like all the things people were complaining about in this thread have manifested themselves into your responses.

Quote from: Brad;1042069There's literally none of that in this thread. At all.

It's almost like all the things people were complaining about in this thread have manifested themselves into your responses.

I was referring to the Mordenkainen's Elves thread, or the The Insipid Racism of D&D SJWs Thread.

I brought it up in this thread because I thought it was hilarious that anyone acted like they were baffled that someone would accuse places like this of being alt-right. (which, as I said, I don't think that there are a ton of alt-right people on the forum, but I do think there is a vocal minority of people who get really upset about anything inclusive)

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1042067Didn't a designer just recently get accused of harassment by multiple, separate women who had no connection to one another? But sure. No. The RPG community is so enlightened. It is clearly a utopia. If only the rest of society could learn from us. Then maybe we could get down to some really important issues, like how 4e D&D is complete trash and anyone who plays it is wrong at roleplaying.

I nowhere said that the hobby and industry are a spotless, shiny, utopia. Individual people are going to have issues.
So, did you want to provide any evidence for your statements that the hobby and industry had a problem with inclusivity? Or shall we dance some more?

Quote from: Silas1066;1042051He is just some pagan dude with strange opinions living in the woods ...
.

Why do his opinions live in the woods?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1042073Why do his opinions live in the woods?

sorry for the forgotten comma

Do I have to go back to your posts and look for split infinitives, dangling participles, and awkward syntactical constructions? Or can we post here without extensive proof-reading?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1042073Why do his opinions live in the woods?

Avoiding the Idea Revenue Service.