Quote from: Spinachcat;1041862AND it would be insanely easy to add to OSR games where Elves are a class.
Boom. Done. Now the OSR has transhuman elves without any politics.

Didn't you mean "transsexual", rather than "transhuman" ?

Though I suppose a case could be made for Elves to be "trans-human" .

But transhumanism evokes another notion for me (i.e the deluded notion that humans can be made better than human by the judicious [ha !] use of technology).
Sorry for this pedantic aside .

Quote from: TJS;1041874You know what else would be really simple.  

Putting a small side-bar in a published product to provide an option.

You'd think so, but that's not what happened. So...

Quote from: TJS;1041874I mean seriously: if this was actually political as you all claim, you'd think there'd be at least some people on more progressive forums like rpgnet crowing over it ....but crickets.  

You never clicked on a single link to articles doing just that?

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041851Honestly, I think a lot of people forget that being lgbt is people's lives and not just politics.

I texted my son, who is trans, when I saw the line about Corellon's chosen being able to switch gender because I knew he would think it was cool. He was super excited to play a character based on the idea in my game.

You know, maybe people include these things because it makes real, live, people happy to see stuff that treats them like they aren't an aberration (Wizards should really apologize to all those Beholders they keep calling an aberration ).

But you know, I'm sure instead, it fits much more into the agenda of this site to assume that people are doing it for dark, nefarious reasons.

(Also, you know, genderfluidity kind of makes sense for elves, and his been part of the lore of Corellon Larethian forever)

EDIT: Also, also, I pointed out exactly what you were talking about, completely boring gay characters, existing in Numenera. There are several people in the villages that are just mentioned as having same sex spouses in the context of "this is the town baker, this is the town smith, they are married".

Not having read Numenera, I can't really comment on that personally. But regardless, my point is that it's not really 'equality' until lgbt elements are treated as not anything special at all.
I think I did that in Arrows of Indra and Lords of Olympus.

I just watched the video where Jeremy Crawford of WotC talks about the Dark Elves.

Sorry if this seems off-subject, but somehow I think it's relevant to the discussion.

In the interview of Jeremy Crawford, we heard that the Drows, those creatures of unspeakable evil, condemn those Elves blessed by Corellon to being able to change their sex.

So, for the god of Elves, being transsexual is a blessing :rolleyes:. And the twisted Drow reject that blessing. Ho, the villainy !

I'm laughing my ass off just thinking about it. What a SJW wet dream it is !

Not that I feel incensed by it. Every game creator should indulge in a little feel-good wankery in his games once in a while.

Just naming it as I see it.

It makes me wonder if I will include this gender-fluidity of Elves  in my games ?

All this talk of inclusion in RPGs makes me want to play an horribly intolerant campaign of flaming heterosexuality. What are RPGs good for, if not for indulging our brighter or darker impulses ?

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1041881It makes me wonder if I will include this gender-fluidity of Elves  in my games ?

If you don't, you can expect accusations of bigotry. Which is why it should have been written as a Feat and/or for a specific campaign setting .

I vaguely remember there being several queer characters in Castle Amber. Or maybe that was just my DM's interpretation. But I don't remember anyone at the table complaining about politics in the game at the time. Maybe because it was about making the characters more interesting rather than making them more politically correct. Because while these characters were definitely not straight they weren't politically correct either.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041882If you don't, you can expect accusations of bigotry. Which is why it should have been written as a Feat and/or for a specific campaign setting .

My players aren't USians, and don't care about the SJws agenda, so I'm fine.

My wife's American and a fairly left leaning one at that, but even she rolled her eyes at the Mord's Elves.

OTOH, I betcha that if you went on the Big Purple and posted something to the effect of "I don't use the gender-fluid elves rules because..." you would get a lot of accusations of bigotry.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041882If you don't, you can expect accusations of bigotry. Which is why it should have been written as a Feat and/or for a specific campaign setting .

I don't run 5e so it doesn't effect me at all.

I have trouble caring about this issue, both the praising and the concern seems like nonsense. Why are you playing with people who would call you bigoted based on a setting choice? Get better friends.
I also don't know any trans people who want to play trans characters rather than one that just is their desired gender.

What are the chances that future games to be judged on whether they have similar gender-fluid races or whether they fail to be "inclusive"?

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041887What are the chances that future games to be judged on whether they have similar gender-fluid races or whether they fail to be "inclusive"?

In the near future, pretty damned high. Further out, ideally a non-issue.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1041886I also don't know any trans people who want to play trans characters rather than one that just is their desired gender.

Do you know many trans people in that case (i.e they definitely want their character to be male or female) ?

It's a genuine question, not trying to be inflammatory here.

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1041891Do you know many trans people in that case (i.e they definitely want their character to be male or female) ?

It's a genuine question, not trying to be inflammatory here.

2 to 3 ish, not everyone sticks with it, hence the range.

You can also pick up a bit from those that post online. I haven't heard of any one who medically pursue that life that also glorifies in being trans. One Artist, whose comic I read, brought it up once and then never mentioned it again. Many of the fans on that site don't even know she used to be a man.
What I get from their experiences is that most consider being trans an affliction, not something to glorify or revel in that status, let alone something you would roleplay as in an RPG for escapism.

A big difference with the T in LGBT, is that if they could push a button and be a normal person of the gender they desire or a button that removes that desire, close to 100% would push it and never deal with trans issues again. Meanwhile many of the LGB would be very hesitant to rewrite their psychology to be "normal". For many people in the T category, it will take more than social acceptance to not hate being trans. Actual medical advancements are needed before that process is easy enough to not be a horrible burden on the individual.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1041522Indeed.  I'm not sure what they are, but biologically viable, they are not!  The rest of the art is pretty good, mind you.

Oh so very. One theory was that WOTC was going to make halflings another demon spawn/touched addition to toe long list of 5e creatures that were changed to somehow now instead be the product of some demon.

Either that or those were going to be half-goblins in the game... ahem... :eek:

Quote from: Larsdangly;1041546You guys are confusing the ell out of me. How are you seeing weirdly drawn hobbits as some sort of political attack launched by the hard left? Either this thread has unravelled into a random discussion of whatever, or there is some sort of very 'meta' reading of fantasy game artwork that I'm not seeing.

Most of us arent. We are just making fun of the fucked up looking halflings in the book.

Personally I dont see anything political with any of the art in the three core books or even the first three supplements. Still dont have the Mordenkeinen book yet so cant say on that aside from the elf thing which sounds like a storm in a teacup if its just limited to a blessing for one sect of followers and not ALL elves.