You know, I think I tend to prefer Sci-fi and Fantasy stories that don't have any humans let alone people of my sexuality or gender.

I like things that are out there and different from me.

Eh, it depends on how much detail the adventure is going into in general. Mentioning tangential things about the way that the NPCs relate to each other just doesn't seem to me to be something that should upset anyone.

Just like one of the old D&D modules upthread that someone mentioned where it mentioned that one of the male enemies was the lover of one of the female enemies of the party. Technically you don't need to know that information to run the adventure, but it shouldn't offend anyone if it was a gay couple instead.

Well, someone got their parties in a wad and went full retard...yeesh.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041824Technically you don't need to know that information to run the adventure, but it shouldn't offend anyone if it was a gay couple instead.

Why is it offending you when they are hetro instead?

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1041830Why is it offending you when they are hetro instead?

It isn't? I was mentioning a situation in which information not necessary to the adventure was still included. It was to point out that adventures have always included little tidbits of info that aren't core to running it.

But I imagine you already knew that.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041831It isn't? I was mentioning a situation in which information not necessary to the adventure was still included. It was to point out that adventures have always included little tidbits of info that aren't core to running it.

But I imagine you already knew that.

Dude, it is pissing you off. Why?

:rolleyes:

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041819And you seem to be thinking I think that they should be tokened in.

I'm referring to people on this forum who get upset when a book covers that a god is genderfluid and that they bestow the ability to change gender to some of their chosen, and they have to come online to tell people how much they hate it. Come on man. I'm not campaigning for quotas or any of that bullshit, I'm saying its nice that there is some acknowledgement of people like my friends and me.

I'm sure there are some people, including on this forum, where ANY mention of a gay/bi/trans character would be cause them to reject it.

But in the case of the Magic Genderfluid Elves Chosen By God, I'm pretty sure that a lot of the dislike of this is that it is blatant virtue-signal pandering on the part of Wizards.

Get back to me when they have a gay or genderfluid character who isn't a wonderful pixie; when they have a gay or genderfluid characters who's a villain, or just an asshole, or ugly, or just boringly normal. Until then, this is just another iteration of the white-left trope of the magic negro/super-spiritual native/etc. It's the left's version of Archie Comics For Jesus.

Honestly, I think a lot of people forget that being lgbt is people's lives and not just politics.

I texted my son, who is trans, when I saw the line about Corellon's chosen being able to switch gender because I knew he would think it was cool. He was super excited to play a character based on the idea in my game.

You know, maybe people include these things because it makes real, live, people happy to see stuff that treats them like they aren't an aberration (Wizards should really apologize to all those Beholders they keep calling an aberration ).

But you know, I'm sure instead, it fits much more into the agenda of this site to assume that people are doing it for dark, nefarious reasons.

(Also, you know, genderfluidity kind of makes sense for elves, and his been part of the lore of Corellon Larethian forever)

EDIT: Also, also, I pointed out exactly what you were talking about, completely boring gay characters, existing in Numenera. There are several people in the villages that are just mentioned as having same sex spouses in the context of "this is the town baker, this is the town smith, they are married".

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041851Honestly, I think a lot of people forget that being lgbt is people's lives and not just politics.

I remember when Dream Pod 9 put a gay couple in one of the Heavy Gear sourcebooks. I was like "Huh, neat."

Nowadays, we are constantly reminded that it's about the politics. That's why it's become such a contentious topic.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1041850But in the case of the Magic Genderfluid Elves Chosen By God, I'm pretty sure that a lot of the dislike of this is that it is blatant virtue-signal pandering on the part of Wizards.

And it was pathetic fucking weak sauce and a lost opportunity to add coolness!

All the morons at WotC needed to do was define "Blessing of Correllon" to be an Elf-only feat where Elves could use Alter Self after each long rest. Boom. Done. Coolness without any politics and FAR BETTER fits Correllon's wildly creative shapechanging nature. And it would cost a feat and be the player's choice, not some weird DM shaming exercise.

Wanna just switch your dick for tits? Great!

Wanna become a totally different humanoid? Great!

Wanna have a PC who changes bodies like others change clothing? Great!

Correllon's Blessing could have granted a form of transhumanism to elves, instead of the weak ass bullshit of virtue signalling.

AND it would be insanely easy to add to OSR games where Elves are a class.

For those not familiar, in OD&D, B/X, and retros like Labyrinth Lord, Elves are fighter/magic-user blends. Thus, all elves can begin with Alter Self as a known spell in their repertoire.

Boom. Done. Now the OSR has transhuman elves without any politics.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1041860All the morons at WotC needed to do was define "Blessing of Correllon" to be an Elf-only feat

Agreed.

I wrote this on another thread, but I will repeat it because I believe it supports your point entirely.

------Let's say a player would like the DM to allow his elf PC have the ability to change from male to female once per day. And let's say that the DM until recently has been running a campaign in which this ability was unheard of (not unlikely considering how new this book is). The DM is concerned that since this ability is relatively rare, it could be used as a means of disguise. He rules that, no, this blessing would grant the PC an unfair advantage. The player, at this point, protests: now while in-game reasons are the DM's call, the player brings in out-of-game reasons of "inclusiveness".

The DM can say "but this is my perogative as the DM" but his/her credentials as DM are now not the focus of the debate: i.e. it is not whether the DM gets to choose, but why he/she has chosen not to. His/her gaming reasons (unfair free abilities) v.s "inclusiveness" and game balance v.s. "fun-for-everyone"is a no-brainer, right?

So the DM, not wishing to be known as a bigot IRL, capitulates and the player gets the free ability. Of course, players being players, this ability is quickly used as a means of disguise and the DM decides to counter it in-game. He/She rules that the miracle is now prettty common and that it is well known that elves change sex all the time and people are on the lookout for it. The game goes on but now elves are all gender-fluid whether or not the DM intended that at his/her campaigns's creation. "Well maybe that is a good thing" and "We have all learned something" is the consensus.

Later, a player decides to play an elf. He/She is not interested in the sex-changing ability because he/she has a Legolas/Tauriel concept in mind. The DM tells the player that recently the elves are now equipped with this power as standard, but the player is free to opt-out. The new player chooses to play an elf with a fixed gender but within the campaign this is now regarded with "why can't you?" questions. Out-of-game the player is asked the same but with the implication that he/she is rejecting the new "inclusiveness". Capitulating, the player asks the DM to have the miraclous ability and the DM says okay. However the player avoids changing because he/she originally did not envisage the Legolas/Tauriel type as being gender-fluid. Once asked a few times out-of-game why he/she didn't change sex regularly, the player retires the character to play a dwarf.

OTOH, having the ability to change sex as a Feat like any other would avoid this.

DMs would have game balance issues met and players not wishing to play gender-fluid elves can simply say, "cos I wanted Feat XYZ instead".

Simple, really. And yet not written that way.-----

You know what else would be really simple.  

Putting a small side-bar in a published product to provide an option.

I swear, some of you guys are like the people complaining they see smut everywhere when it's just their own dirty minds.  Whether or not the motives behind this are political, you guys are sure hell bent on making it political.

I mean seriously: if this was actually political as you all claim, you'd think there'd be at least some people on more progressive forums like rpgnet crowing over it ....but crickets.  The only reason I know about it is because of the bruhaha it's made here.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041851Honestly, I think a lot of people forget that being lgbt is people's lives and not just politics.

That's always a good thing to remember, I agree.

Quote from: Emperor NortonI texted my son, who is trans, when I saw the line about Corellon's chosen being able to switch gender because I knew he would think it was cool. He was super excited to play a character based on the idea in my game.

I get that, and I'm honestly pleased for you and your son.

Quote from: Emperor NortonYou know, maybe people include these things because it makes real, live, people happy to see stuff that treats them like they aren't an aberration (Wizards should really apologize to all those Beholders they keep calling an aberration ).

At the root of this, people want to feel they're normal people.

Quote from: Emperor NortonBut you know, I'm sure instead, it fits much more into the agenda of this site to assume that people are doing it for dark, nefarious reasons.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of people that are from a gay, bi and lesbian sexual orientation just want to be decently treated, in RPGs as in other medium. The majority of transexual people would like that too, I don't doubt it.

It's just too bad that this legitimate need has been hijacked by a very vocal and shrill minority of self-proclaimed crusaders for social rights - the so-called SJWs, who could be defined as gender-identity afflicted cultural marxists.

A large part of this minority is not thinking clearly and is in the Crusade for the sick but ho-so-sweet pain of feeling like a victim acknowledged by society at large.

Some, the leaders certainly, are in it for the power the crusade confers them. They are power tripping, mob-ilizing (the mob of) public opinion to socially execute those they don't like.

There are also many bystanders who daren't speak for fear of having the mob unleashed on them, or who feel sympathetic to the Cause because they are deceived by the word "justice" advocated by the SJWs. Many of those bystanders, I think, are also frozen by the guilt of being "privileged" (whatever the f... that means).

To make things clear, I'm not criticizing the SJWs for wanting to advance their Cause (although I think their idea of a just society is ill-advised) : I'm opposed in principle to their methods of advocacy -that is shaming, lying, arguing in bad faith, counterfeiting and mobbing in social media, slandering , and generally trying to silence their opposition by any means necessary.

However uncouth, or downright rude, the tone of voice may be in this forum, I find it a breath of fresh (if raucous) air after trying to have a reasoned discourse in other RPG forums (namely RPG.net, ENworld and the Paizo forums).

One tires of being called a racist or a bigot simply for disagreeing with one's opponent.

Quote from: Emperor Norton(Also, you know, genderfluidity kind of makes sense for elves, and his been part of the lore of Corellon Larethian forever)

Agreed. Anyway, Elves have always been kinda fruity to me .   <----- this here is a joke. Maybe it's in bad taste, but it damn feels good to joke. Maybe it's offensive, but it's sometimes okay to be a little offensive (as Milo Yianopoulos somewhat put it : "If you're old enough to take a dick, you're also old enough to take a joke"). And no, I'm not alt-right. I'm kind of a past leftie with a sense of humour.