Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1041473Well, what are you calling 'traditional left wing politics'? They're definitely not inclined to classical liberalism, and while sympathetic to socialism and buying into certain elements of Marxist thought (primarily the dialectic, although transferred from 'capital-labor' to 'privileged-subaltern' or the like--note that my familiarity with Marx is very limited), they are not at all concerned with the lower class except as it intersects with other marginalized groups.

   I would be inclined to call them the offspring of the 60s radicals and counterculture, though.

Offspring? Well, at least this member of the counterculture was always careful to avoid that.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041469You can call bullshit on  the OSR being Alt-Right (correctly) but I bet my membership here I couldn't demonstrate that the SJW have nothing to do with traditional left wing politics without getting a warning.

Pundit doesn't want politics in this thread SO please open a thread in Pundency and talk about this.

That's the proper forum for that discussions and you won't get any warning. BTW, I think its an important discussion for everyone to discuss.

Quote from: Skarg;1041576gee, I wonder why someone might incorrectly think the OSR has an anti-SJW aspect?

Anyone who values freedom, true equality and true inclusivity benefits from an anti-SJW aspect.

At its best, the OSR welcomes ALL and encourages ALL to do their own thing in their own way.

I am a liberal Democrat and I love the OSR a lot.

The claims of the OSR being "Alt-Right" are largely fabricated.

If a registered Democratic liberal and Cowboy like me can love the OSR and see no political agendas dominating it, then I don't see why people are so worked up about it.

I'm not going to accuse anyone of being Alt-Right, but when people on this board seem to get angry at any inclusion, or mention, of LGBT in D&D as some kind of attack on them, it sure as hell doesn't make it feel like this place is as "inclusive" as they all claim to be.

The fact that people think any mention of someone like me, or like my friend group, or like my son, being mentioned as existing is "SJW bullshit" kind of makes it feel pretty oppressive.

I think that "progressives" can go too far sometimes, but I also think that this forum goes the opposite way so far as to try to find boogiemen to defend their hobby from, and that can create a certain impression.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041658I'm not going to accuse anyone of being Alt-Right, but when people on this board seem to get angry at any inclusion, or mention, of LGBT in D&D as some kind of attack on them, it sure as hell doesn't make it feel like this place is as "inclusive" as they all claim to be.

The fact that people think any mention of someone like me, or like my friend group, or like my son, being mentioned as existing is "SJW bullshit" kind of makes it feel pretty oppressive.

I think that "progressives" can go too far sometimes, but I also think that this forum goes the opposite way so far as to try to find boogiemen to defend their hobby from, and that can create a certain impression.

AFAIK we had the one poster express that opinion. Maybe two, I don't recall exactly.
Speaking only for myself, I only care that people are decent. I have no interest in quotas for inclusivities sake.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041658I'm not going to accuse anyone of being Alt-Right, but when people on this board seem to get angry at any inclusion, or mention, of LGBT in D&D as some kind of attack on them, it sure as hell doesn't make it feel like this place is as "inclusive" as they all claim to be.

It may not be a case of Alt-Right so much as an over-inflated sense of self importance. They are not being personally attacked. The just consciously choose to play the victim card in order to get attention.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041658I'm not going to accuse anyone of being Alt-Right, but when people on this board seem to get angry at any inclusion, or mention, of LGBT in D&D as some kind of attack on them, it sure as hell doesn't make it feel like this place is as "inclusive" as they all claim to be.

The fact that people think any mention of someone like me, or like my friend group, or like my son, being mentioned as existing is "SJW bullshit" kind of makes it feel pretty oppressive.

I think that "progressives" can go too far sometimes, but I also think that this forum goes the opposite way so far as to try to find boogiemen to defend their hobby from, and that can create a certain impression.

I think your just so use to those kind of people not being allowed to talk that any mention of those ideas makes it seem like the whole forum supports them and shares their opinion, when really the forum supports their right to talk so we can make fun of them.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1041741I think your just so use to those kind of people not being allowed to talk that any mention of those ideas makes it seem like the whole forum supports them and shares their opinion, when really the forum supports their right to talk so we can make fun of them.

Well put. I doubt there are that many closet-case neo Nazi's who drift through these boards. But it is very rare (I can't remember an instance) for someone on these boards to shriek a left wing point of view or badger people for being right wing. What you do hear a lot of here is gripes about mean 'social justice warriors' and feminists on other sites. It is basically a place where a few vocal people come to bitch about their negative perceptions of left wing politics, as they imagine they are being manifested elsewhere. I haven't noticed much in the way of whinging aimed the other way. So, if you took 'anti-left' as synonymous for 'pro right', and you went hunting for political snark on the threads where it appears, it could feel like this is a right wing site.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1041741I think your just so use to those kind of people not being allowed to talk that any mention of those ideas makes it seem like the whole forum supports them and shares their opinion, when really the forum supports their right to talk so we can make fun of them.

But that is the thing. I see very little making fun of them. Maybe 1 post will point out that they are overreacting.

On the other hand, how often on this board do you see complaints about "SJWs" and feminists on this site?

Quote from: Larsdangly;1041514What's the problem with 5E's art? I'm not picking up on much in the way of a political subtext.

Compare the 5th edition succubus (and incubus) illustration to any other edition of the game. She has been de-fanged, both literally and figuratively. They are still described as the most lascivious creatures in D&D, yet here they are illustrated here so blandly that I doubt many of us would worry if our daughter wanted to go in fancy dress like that. (She would be no less covered up than if she went as Disney princess Ariel, or Jasmine, or Pocahontas.) See also the typically naked dryad, lamia, and satyr who all got the modesty poncho treatment.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1041746Well put. I doubt there are that many closet-case neo Nazi's who drift through these boards. But it is very rare (I can't remember an instance) for someone on these boards to shriek a left wing point of view or badger people for being right wing. What you do hear a lot of here is gripes about mean 'social justice warriors' and feminists on other sites. It is basically a place where a few vocal people come to bitch about their negative perceptions of left wing politics, as they imagine they are being manifested elsewhere. I haven't noticed much in the way of whinging aimed the other way. So, if you took 'anti-left' as synonymous for 'pro right', and you went hunting for political snark on the threads where it appears, it could feel like this is a right wing site.

Let me know when the right start writing politicized articles about D&D and I'll bitch about them as well.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041658I'm not going to accuse anyone of being Alt-Right, but when people on this board seem to get angry at any inclusion, or mention, of LGBT in D&D as some kind of attack on them, it sure as hell doesn't make it feel like this place is as "inclusive" as they all claim to be.

The fact that people think any mention of someone like me, or like my friend group, or like my son, being mentioned as existing is "SJW bullshit" kind of makes it feel pretty oppressive.

I think that "progressives" can go too far sometimes, but I also think that this forum goes the opposite way so far as to try to find boogiemen to defend their hobby from, and that can create a certain impression.

I'll agree, this place is definitely easy to paint with a Right-Wing brush.  However, that's only partly due to the antics of a couple people here, and the over the top aggressive nature by which the Pundit chooses to deliver even simple points of logic, let alone the craziness he gets into when he gets fired up.  

By and large, here you have people railing against the faux social justice, ie. "Protectorate Racism" of Seattle white people.  If these people weren't also in the habit of [strike]silencing and censoring[/strike] de-platforming people they don't agree with, to the point of wanting to run them out of the industry altogether, then their increasing influence within the industry wouldn't be seen as something to argue against.

Do we have some crazy Right-Wingers here? Yeah.
Do we have some crazy Left-Wingers here? Yeah. (although they tend to leave because ironically, they can't stand to co-exist)
Do we have some dyed-in-the-wool homophobes who think homosexuality is degenerate, a sin, what have you? Sure.
Do we have trolls who like to play "poke the lefty" to see their heads explode? Yep.
We also have the opposites of all of those.
We got people who voted for Trump, Hillary, Stein, Johnson and Bernie on write-ins.
We've got Cis, Trans, Gay, Straight, Bi, and at least one honest-to-god Otherkin.
We've got white-bred Seattle and sweet home Alabama.
We've got Atheists, ex-seminarians, Catholic theologians, and a practicing magician.

The only real thing that unites people here is their love of tabletop gaming and the belief that even if we disagree with someone with the fury of a thousand suns, they have a right to post what we don't like and vice-versa.

Free speech provides the right to criticize as well.  If someone says something that others object to, free speech allows others to point that out.

I'm of the opinion that if the only defense of saying something is that it is literally not illegal to say, then they are probably saying something pretty shitty.

Also, my point was not that the whole forum is crazy right wingers, but that you can't be surprised that people think that a group is whackadoo when incredibly vocal parts of the group regularly say whackadoo bullshit.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041658I'm not going to accuse anyone of being Alt-Right, but when people on this board seem to get angry at any inclusion, or mention, of LGBT in D&D as some kind of attack on them, it sure as hell doesn't make it feel like this place is as "inclusive" as they all claim to be.

The fact that people think any mention of someone like me, or like my friend group, or like my son, being mentioned as existing is "SJW bullshit" kind of makes it feel pretty oppressive.

I think that "progressives" can go too far sometimes, but I also think that this forum goes the opposite way so far as to try to find boogiemen to defend their hobby from, and that can create a certain impression.

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041757I'm of the opinion that if the only defense of saying something is that it is literally not illegal to say, then they are probably saying something pretty shitty.

I think being a passive-aggressive twat is a shitty way to post.