Quote from: Omega;940841Which is one reason why some RPGs go the simple route. To deliberately leave room for the players and DM to breath into it their own styles and shapes.

This hasn't been emphasized enough:).
For an example from the thread, Ashen Stars gives you an example setting, but what it really means to give you is a system to play in the space opera genre. Picking which details to add to a game is always a balancing act between too much and not enough detail, and dfferent groups would have different priorities;).

Quote from: AsenRG;940944This hasn't been emphasized enough:).
For an example from the thread, Ashen Stars gives you an example setting, but what it really means to give you is a system to play in the space opera genre. Picking which details to add to a game is always a balancing act between too much and not enough detail, and dfferent groups would have different priorities;).

Which, of course, has the oh-so-convenient side effect of the author not having to put in any work on that front themselves.

Shrug. Personally I've always thought long lists of equipment were boring.  YMM thingummy.

Quote from: RunningLaser;940897There's not many sci fi games with a future version of a leatherman, are there?

The Sonic Screwdriver, which as I understand it wound up being far too powerful to allow simple drama (since it SOLVED everything), and was downplayed.  GURPS has one in Ultratech, and a handful of other games I can think of had similar high-tech universal tools.  The idea itself winds up being bland and prosaic, but most of the coolest things are if you think about them too much.

I used to be of the opinion of "screw the art budget", just give me solid rules in an organized easy to reference game and we are good. As I have gotten older, I realize how important art in a game book:
1) it just makes a book easier to read period
2) As the OP points out it can speak to the setting, cultures, tie period etc.

As much as I see the OP's original point of demonstrating cultural influences in and on technology i a SciFi game, it is relevant in modern games covering the last 100 years or so. Many of the people I game with would not know the difference between an M-4 and a M1-A1.
I'm guessing much of the current gaming market are not the weapon enthusiasts that some of us are.

Definitely though, there are cultural references when you an artist uses an AK-47 and an M-16/ I actually learned this when I was playing G.I. Joe at 8 years old. The terrorists (aka COBRA used the AK-47s).

Reading through this thread I was reminded of another way art (in this case figure sculpting) and G.I. Joe have influenced some of my gaming. When we were kids, our action figures could only use the tools/ weapons they had sculpted on the toy. As far as removable weapons, they could only use what they were trained for on their file card.
Having collected quite a few miniatures I sometimes use this same idea when gaming. If there isa question about what a specific goblin is using as a weapon, refer to what is on the sculpt. If trying to determine what type of items are left over to scavenge on the battlefield, refer to what the miniatures had sculpted on them.

With enough variety in miniatures it can also add some inspiration as well and can even give different factions of the same species a different look.

Plus I often look at the artwork in game books to influece my mini painting....so yeah +1 good artwork can make or break an RPG and understanding the system,

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;940839I guess this is why Unknown Armies had it that if you did more than use harsh language against someone you might go hopelessly insane from the trauma of it all, but still had 85 different kinds of guns and 24 types of ammo.

Nonsense. UA was the game where you might have a timid character who would go into shock at the sight of a blood, or have a character so hardened to violence that they could skin a baby and not blink.

The game didn't even really have a level of "hopelessly insane" either. Characters who had suffered the maximum levels of failure in the Violence category were prone to overreact to surprises like loud noises and were disproportionately more concerned about violence breaking out in situations where it wasn't likely, but based on veterans I know, that's fairly normal.  UA wasn't a game where the GM ever took your character away from you because you'd gone over the edge.

UA was just a lot like low-level OSR D&D in a lot of ways. If you wanted someone's treasure, you might want to think of a better way of getting it than just lining up like a chump, rolling initiative and taking turns stabbing one another, because you could very well die from one stab wound. The rule book just did a good job of explaining this to players. I used to play UA with Greg Stolze, so the morbid sense of humor is apparent to me. I think a lot of people miss that.

He wasn't trying to suggest that engaging in combat was badwrongfun. He was also the line developer for Feng Shui. He could barely conceal his glee when a UA session turned into a bloody clusterfuck. The combat section is just written to make it clear that combat could have a brutal cost in that game that many others don't.

Thespy.

I don't mind it sometimes, it can be interesting. But it's still thespy.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;940958Shrug. Personally I've always thought long lists of equipment were boring.  YMM thingummy.

This is more or less my view. Though I like having a couple signature pieces of gear illustrated, as I think it helps flashing out and giving character to the setting. Like seeing in Shadowrun that Ares Predator is supposed to be Robocop pistol, and Ares Viper is supposed to be Molly Minions'. Or the exotic gear in Skyrealms of Jorune.

About space opera genre, I find it kinda silly in first place (with all its furries and avians and fishmen etc), so figuring out the difference in their guns aesthetically and functionally is the last thing I'd bother.

Quote from: Spike;940801Even when you only have one culture, one technological base, the choice of tools is important. It gives you a chance to say something deep and meaningful about a people without having to write a word, without even having to know exactly what you are trying to say!

Material culture both reflects and defines a society and its lifeways.

Congratulations. You just rediscovered archaeology.

Quote from: RunningLaser;940897There's not many sci fi games with a future version of a leatherman, are there?

I want to know the difference between the TL8 Leatherman and the TL15 Leatherman, to be sure.

Quote from: Daztur;940857Like Star Wars doesn't seem to have security cameras.

Aren't security cameras the second thing Han and Chewie blast - after the guards, of course - in the detention area of the Death Star?

Quote from: Black Vulmea;941034...
Aren't security cameras the second thing Han and Chewie blast - after the guards, of course - in the detention area of the Death Star?

Almost. They alternate blasting guards and cameras, especially at first, when they are trying to pretend like they are trying to blast Chewie and missing.

In TFA, they seem to have forgotten about them, placing essentially zero guards or lookouts on the one building on their evil base planet marked "come here to shut down shields, rescue friends, meet arch villain, and blow up entire planet".

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;940979I used to be of the opinion of "screw the art budget", just give me solid rules in an organized easy to reference game and we are good. As I have gotten older, I realize how important art in a game book:
1) it just makes a book easier to read period
2) As the OP points out it can speak to the setting, cultures, tie period etc.

I think there are a few excellent games with integrated illustrations of equipment. Skyrealms of Jorune is a good example to my mind. However, I feel that most long lists of equipment are a poorly-thought-out jumble that detracts from the setting rather than enhancing it. For me, this includes Shadowrun, which has always been lacking sense in equipment.

For me, equipment can be good as a cap on a base of good world-building - but I don't agree with the OP's assertion of Shadowrun and Rifts as good world-building. (I'm not very familiar with Mutant Chronicles, so I'm not sure on that point.)

Try replacing Good with Evocative and you'd more accurately represent my view.  Maybe engaging?

A decent equipment list with visual, culturally specific designs does not actually make a setting good or even fun, any more than Hugo Boss uniforms made Nazi's cool, but damned if we don't remember how snappy they look in all those movies!

Quote from: Black Vulmea;941034I want to know the difference between the TL8 Leatherman and the TL15 Leatherman, to be sure.

TL8 Leatherman Supertool 3000 ditches leatherman's proprietary security torx screws, paving the way for users to swap bits and just have the tools they need.  
TL15 Leatherman Supertool 3000X reintroduces said screws.

So while we're on the topic of cool gun illustrations, which games have lots of not-real-world guns that have cool drawings.

Shadowrun - I think the earlier stuff was probably better.
Rifts - all over the friggin' place.  Sometimes I think Kevin swings by the local kindergarten.
Cyberpunk - never had the Shadowrun production values, but still had some good guns.  Also had some terrible ones, but at least the guns weren't doll guns.

What are yoru favorites?

Millennium's End comes immediately to mind, for some reason:D!