Quote from: JCrichton;320129PHB's sell way more than any other D&D book.  Unless they are planning on making the current printing obsolete soon it's very unlikely they are just trying to move copies that are collecting dust.

Which is why they have a ton of them. They thought demand would be higher, but in the days of tight budgets, they didn't sell. In the groups I've seen out of five players (including GM) there was 2 players handbooks. It used to be out of 5 players, there was 4-5 players handbooks for 3.0.

I'll tell you as a Borders employee, I know a ton of 4e PHB's were returned to the distributor a few months back.

They're moving stale product, simple as that.

$5 for a book the purchaser probably already owns? They probably want him to give it to 'the Laptop guy' at his game with all the pdfs.

Quote from: KrakaJak;320194I'll tell you as a Borders employee, I know a ton of 4e PHB's were returned to the distributor a few months back.

They're moving stale product, simple as that.

Which other 4E titles sold decently?

From speaking with several owners of FLGS nearby, they mentioned that Arcane Power sold relatively well for some odd reason.  Other than the Player's Handbook 2 and Arcane Power, they all mentioned that sales have been quite slow for most of the other 4E books and modules.

Quote from: ggroy;320203From speaking with several owners of FLGS nearby, they mentioned that Arcane Power sold relatively well for some odd reason.  

Players who favour spellcasters hoping to get some of their uberness back?

Quote from: Fifth Element;320206Players who favour spellcasters hoping to get some of their uberness back?

Most likely.

The same FLGS owners mentioned that Martial Power hasn't moved much, and  it wasn't a spectacular seller back when it was first released. They also mentioned Divine Power hasn't moved very quickly either, but it's only been out for about a month (ie. it may be too early to tell).

Many of the books sell well on decently on release at my store, and then drop off the map completely. PHB II, the magic items book(I forget it's name), Eberron Campaign Guide, Forgotten Realms.

Beyond the core books and Forgotten Realms, we have nothing on our shelves more than three months old for D&D 4e.

Just as a side note, the Vampire the Requiem Clanbooks are doing extremely well. Those bastards fly off shelves. Everything else by White-Wolf sort of lingers. Also, Dark Heresy is huge. The $60 corebook sells nearly as many copies as the $25 clanbooks.

Quote from: KrakaJak;320211Many of the books sell well on decently on release at my store, and then drop off the map completely. PHB II, the magic items book(I forget it's name), Eberron Campaign Guide, Forgotten Realms.

I gather there are no "evergreen" 4E D&D titles yet.  If I had to guess, the PHB1 would be the remotely closest candidate for an evergreen title.  But if large numbers of PHB1 are being returned to distributors, I guess that may put it out of consideration for evergreen status.

On a different note, did many old 3E/3.5E D&D splatbook titles ever end up in the discount section for "remaindered" books (or whatever they call it these days) over the last few years?  Awhile ago, I remember seeing several Eberron and Forgotten Realms 3.5E splatbooks in the discount section in piles of 8 or 9 books each at a few bookstores.

If selling PHBs for $5 was such a huge net profit, I wonder why it´s the first time in 30 years that such a course is taken

Quote from: Settembrini;320224If selling PHBs for $5 was such a huge net profit, I wonder why it´s the first time in 30 years that such a course is taken

It's an experiment.  It's not helpful if it does not actually generate more sales of the other books than were already going to sell.  So, I am not saying it absolutely will result in more profit, I am saying that is probably one of the two theories behind this experiment.

As for this being entirely unique, it is not.  As stated, they have always taken a discount by selling through Big Box Retailers.  This is just moving the discount from one place to another.  We're not looking at some major change, just a relatively minor one to see how this variation works out.

Quote from: Settembrini;320224If selling PHBs for $5 was such a huge net profit, I wonder why it´s the first time in 30 years that such a course is taken

Quite a number of hardcover books end up in the $5 section.  Just take a look at the discount section of remaindered books at any big box bookstore.  I would be quite surprised if many of these particular remaindered copies are profitable for the original publisher.  More likely they're being "liquidated".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remaindered_book

Quote from: Settembrini;320224If selling PHBs for $5 was such a huge net profit, I wonder why it´s the first time in 30 years that such a course is taken

Selling $5 PHBs does not create profit. Selling $5 PHBs tied to the sale of another full-price book direct to the consumer (avoiding middle-man costs) creates profit. That's the idea, anyway.

QuoteIf selling PHBs for $5 was such a huge net profit, I wonder why it´s the first time in 30 years that such a course is taken

It's probably 'at cost.'

I want to remind you guys, the crowd we're talking about here is the crowd at GenCon. Who the fuck attending GenCon doesn't already have the 4e PHB? Who attending GenCon interested in buying another D&D 4e book doesn't already have the 4e PHB? Every D&D player could use another PHB at the table but Watzee needs to clear out their warehouse a bit and D&D 4e gamers at GenCon get a benefit from it.

As far as the PHB being evergreen, it's still on the shelves, which is a god sign, we just went from having 12 copies on the shelf, to having 3. It's across the board at all stores though. Stores with 20 copies now have 5, stores with 8 copies now have 1.

As far as discount hardbacks go, usually the distributors make a deal with a publisher where they'll buy up the old hardcover stock by the pound (rather than by title). It usually saves them on shipping fees. Clearance bookstores and big store bargain sections can then buy bargain books by weight usually around $3 a pound.

D&D doesn't really have that luxury because there isn't an imminent paperback to sell. They'll take back whatever the distributor isn't willing to warehouse as they'd probably lose big money.

Quote from: KrakaJak;320250As far as discount hardbacks go, usually the distributors make a deal with a publisher where they'll buy up the old hardcover stock by the pound (rather than by title). It usually saves them on shipping fees. Clearance bookstores and big store bargain sections can then buy bargain books by weight usually around $3 a pound.

D&D doesn't really have that luxury because there isn't an imminent paperback to sell. They'll take back whatever the distributor isn't willing to warehouse.

If a particular D&D splatbook ends up being "remaindered" and ends up in the bargain section of several big box bookstores, is this a sign that it had really piss poor crappy sales?

I suppose it would be a really bad sign if any of the 4E PHB1, DMG1, or MM1 end up being remaindered and into the bargain sections of the huge big box bookstore chains.  Offhand the only scenario I can see something like this happening, is if Hasbro closes down the D&D division and takes the D&D product line off the market and liquidating whatever D&D books are still left.

Quote from: ggroy;320253If a particular D&D splatbook ends up being "remaindered" and ends up in the bargain section of several big box bookstores, is this a sign that it had really piss poor crappy sales?

I suppose it would be a really bad sign if any of the 4E PHB1, DMG1, or MM1 end up being remaindered and into the bargain sections of the huge big box bookstore chains.  Offhand the only scenario I can see something like this happening, is if Hasbro closes down the D&D division and takes the D&D product line off the market and liquidating whatever D&D books are still left.

I wouldn't say 'piss poor crappy sales' but worse sales then the publisher anticipated, especially with RPG's where there isn't the Hardback-Quality Paperback-Mass Market Paperback treadmill. It means the publisher (or the bookstore) is willing to take what they can get for them.

With novels or other mass market books, once the paperback comes out, the hardback is impossible to sell. Ditto for the Mass market vs. the QP. You'll notice you don't see Harry Potter, the Secret or Twilight in the bargain section. That's 'cause they sell.

You're always likely to see a quite a few remainder hardbacks when the QP comes out, but if you see a whole bunch everywhere (or hardbacks with no paperback equivalent), it probably didn't sell very well. Like all the DaVinci Code reissue hardbacks.

Quote from: KrakaJak;320194Which is why they have a ton of them. They thought demand would be higher, but in the days of tight budgets, they didn't sell. In the groups I've seen out of five players (including GM) there was 2 players handbooks. It used to be out of 5 players, there was 4-5 players handbooks for 3.0.

I'll tell you as a Borders employee, I know a ton of 4e PHB's were returned to the distributor a few months back.

They're moving stale product, simple as that.

$5 for a book the purchaser probably already owns? They probably want him to give it to 'the Laptop guy' at his game with all the pdfs.

Don't be offended when I say that your Borders is not a good representation of the whole.  Not even a little bit.  It's representative of your area and nothing more.  So, I'm going to stick with with the idea that it's a money maker for them at a venue that is most likely to take advantage of it.

Quote from: JCrichton;320263Don't be offended when I say that your Borders is not a good representation of the whole.  Not even a little bit.  It's representative of your area and nothing more.  So, I'm going to stick with with the idea that it's a money maker for them at a venue that is most likely to take advantage of it.

I'm not using a single Borders, but the numbers of regional return pulls for soCA, AZ, NM, and NV. If it's indicative of nationwide returns we're talking near ten thousand books or more.