Seems like a reasonable marketing ploy, and a way to still generate profit on excess inventory.

Quote from: counterspin;319846Wizards can make money on the 2-for-1s and undercut Pathfinder.  Seems like a win-win to me.

Also, while I don't really care what happens to the industry, I predict that the $10 pdf thing is going to go down as a giant fuck up.  In a decade when there's no difference between print and pdf, people aren't going to just forget that the product used to be $10 in computer format, and for big publisher, just selling $10 pdfs is unlikely to cover their production costs.

And to jump on the delver hate train "Because why the fuck would I spend $10 for a pdf that's available for free as the 3.5 srd?"

I don't have a dog in this fight, as 4E makes my eyes bleed and 3.5 was way too much work...

...but we're not yet in a decade where "there's no difference between print and pdf".

PDF's all over the place, and becoming a more and more viable form of distribution, no doubt...but there's still a ton of resistance to the PDF movement, because - for various reasons - a lot of folks find it unwieldy to use a PDF at a game table, and/or don't have the resources available to convert said PDFs to a print product.

The PDF movement in gaming has several hurdles to overcome:
1) Most of it is formatted for 8.5x11" color readability while most electronic book reading  devices are 4x5" grayscale displays.
2) many PDF products are scanned image files, and not searchable or have really bad OCR.
3) print and use-on-screen PDF layout have different needs...

We should be seeing the large format (6x9.5") displays proliferating soon; It looks like the Kindle DX is already out with a 6x9.5" 16-gray display.

2 could be solved by a proper user-errata-system; most new PDF products don't have it.

3 is just plain an issue of designers being willing to only make one layout. Really, there are about 5 reading modes people are using:
(a) printout
(b) computer screen
(c) PDA screen
(d) Cell-phone screen
(e) ebook readers

a is usually letter or A4 portait.
b shows best letter or A4 landscape.
c & d show best with reflowed text... so long as the reading order is set correctly, it shouldn't be a problem for pure text... but tables and pictures really suck. Also screen shows typically 1-3 paragraphs, not whole pages.
e typically is small screens... and can be used in either mode, and can reflow the text as do D&C... but the readers are expensive.

As for in game use, A and E are both good... C&D are less so, and B is only useful if either the GM runs from his computer or it people have laptops.

Pretty smart marketing here. You buy a book, and get an extra PHB for $5 then give to a friend who is interested in playing. Poof -A new D&D player is born and they start buying more product.

The PHB is the entry point after all. Probably the best idea they've had all year. Seriously.

I highly doubt WotC is losing any money on the deal. Considering that you have to buy at least one book at full price to get the deal, and that sale is a direct manufacturer to customer sale (without going through distributors or FLGS etc), Wizards is still making out quite well with the sale.

My guess is that this is a direct response to the Pathfinder release. The $10 PDF is a smart marketing move and the release of the actual book is generating a lot of buzz for the closest thing to a D&D killer this hobby has seen in a long time.

I think there has been much more resistance to the new edition this time around (compared to the 2e->3e transition). Also, previously, there was no movement to keep 2e in print and after a while support went away so many people were forced to make the leap or scour used book stores for any 2e stuff. Now, due to the OGL and Pathfinder, the prior edition rules are still in print and continually supported with high quality adventures, campaigns and new rule supplements, a factor which wasn't present previously.

So I think WotC is a little scared that someone is stealing their thunder.

Quote from: GoOrange;320024So I think WotC is a little scared that someone is stealing their thunder.

Highly doubtful.

Seanchai

Quote from: GoOrange;320024So I think WotC is a little scared that someone is stealing their thunder.

Seanchai is right.  No way.  If you put all the RPG company's sales together for one year, they likely still wouldn't equal the output of D&D.

I don't know; I think that WoTC doesn't consider anyone a serious menace now; but I also think that if they're smart they'll realize they have a vested interest in doing whatever is necessary to make sure that no one becomes a menace in the future.

RPGPundit

To me it sounds like they have tons of PHBs sitting in the warehouse.

Which means they are not selling through PHBs like they figured they would, so they're going to give them away at cost @ Gencon. I'm sure they figure the average GenCon goer will already have a copy of the PHB, so they sweeten the deal on another purchase. It's a classic upsell to move stale product.

I'm sure they hope the buyer gives it away. Or the buyer is getting it (or two) with their MM and DMG.

It has nothing to do with Pathfinder.

PHB's sell way more than any other D&D book.  Unless they are planning on making the current printing obsolete soon it's very unlikely they are just trying to move copies that are collecting dust.

Quote from: RPGPundit;320103I don't know; I think that WoTC doesn't consider anyone a serious menace now; but I also think that if they're smart they'll realize they have a vested interest in doing whatever is necessary to make sure that no one becomes a menace in the future.

The Paizo Phantom Menace.  

Quote from: KrakaJak;320127To me it sounds like they have tons of PHBs sitting in the warehouse.

Which means they are not selling through PHBs like they figured they would, so they're going to give them away at cost @ Gencon. I'm sure they figure the average GenCon goer will already have a copy of the PHB, so they sweeten the deal on another purchase. It's a classic upsell to move stale product.

Anybody remember from the 1980's when TSR packaged two different D&D or AD&D modules, and sold the package for a price of slightly more than one module?  At the time I thought it was cool.  In hindsight, it may have been TSR's way of moving stale product that was clogging up their warehouse.

Quote from: ggroy;320137The Paizo Phantom Menace.  

Lets Hope Paizo aren't Jar Jar Binks

In my opinion, the purpose of this sale is two-fold.

First: It makes them more money.  I think this is the primary goal.  Selling direct to customers makes them a lot more money than selling through retailers, even with the discounted PHB.  Here is how it works:

Big Box Retailers sell for about 40% off of the suggested retail price.  For example, I just bought MM2 for 40% off from Borders books with a coupon.  Those retailers still make a profit even at 40% off, and that is with overhead costs, which probably account for at least another 20%.  Which means ultimately WOTC is seeing at most 40% of the suggested retail price for ever sale through a Big Box Retailer.

However, if they sell the same book for full price to someone directly at GenCon, plus the PHB at $5, they make more money. For example:

Adventurers Vault 2 = $29.95, and PHB = $34.95, suggested retail price.

Big Box Retailers are selling them for 40% off. So $17.97 and $20.97.

Those retailers have direct costs, plus overhead costs, for those books. And, they need to make a profit on them. So, conservatively speaking, it's another 20%.

Which means WOTC probably sees for those two books, sold through a big box retailer, about $11.98 and $13.98, for a total of $25.96.

But, sold at GenCon, they instead see $29.95 +$5.00 = $34.95. Which is actually a pretty substantial increase in profit. It's an increase of over 1/3.  That's a big win.

So that is the first reason I think they are doing this, to make more money and get more people to buy a supplement directly from them rather than through a Big Box Retailer.

The second reason is to generate positive publicity.  Which, I think it is.

Here is what Scott Rouse said, for what it is worth (sorry if this is a repeat):

QuoteFor the record, this is not a reaction to Paizo and PFRPG. Just today over email I wished Erik a great show. Erik and I were planning on grabbing a beer or dinner durring the show, but for personal reason I have had to change my plans and will not be attending GenCon this year. I wish Paizo all the best with their efforts. We need a strong, vibrant, and diverse RPG industry. If companies like Paizo fail, we all loose.

The idea behind the promotion came up when we were exploring ways to make sure this GenCon was a great show for our fans. A few months ago we had a brain storming session and out of this we came up with some fun ideas to reward our customers who attended (and in some cases those who didn't attend). With the global economic issues we wanted to really support the con and make sure people keep coming back year after year. GenCon is our most important convention. Might I remind you it was only a little over a year ago when many of us thought it GenCon 2008 would not happen. This year we decided to put some extra effort into the convention because, like the industry comment above, when the GenCon is healthy we all benefit.

So the real story behind promotion for $5PHBs is to give DMs and their groups some extra copies of the PHB and for players to get an extra copy for themsleves or a pass-along copy into the hands of a friend who is not currently playing.

Quote from: Mistwell;320167The second reason is to generate positive publicity.  Which, I think it is.

Because God knows that WoTC needs to do something to balance out all of the bad publicity they have generated for themselves.