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The WOTC 2024 Monster Manual won't be delivered, until 2025.

Started by Jam The MF, February 12, 2024, 08:02:21 PM

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THE_Leopold

#30
February 14, 2024, 10:17:19 AM
Quote from: BadApple on February 14, 2024, 09:56:49 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 14, 2024, 12:54:48 AM
Quote from: Omega on February 14, 2024, 12:48:35 AM


wotc is trying to pass this off as still 5e. They know the rubes will eat their pig swill happily.

Guys who are actually 5e fans who have read the recent UAs: "Damnit, they ditched all the new inventive stuff! This isn't even a new edition. All they're doing is basically adding like Tasha's 2.0!"

OSR bros who have never read it: "It's 6e! They're trying to pass this off as backwards compatible when we know it's not!"

The rubes are the OSR bros in this scenario who are just talking shit without reading any of it. All you would have to do is download any of the last 3-4 UAs to see they scrapped the "new" stuff quite some time ago.

Man, you are white knighting hard for WOTC  this morning.


No he's actually done his homework and is informed on what WOTC is attempting to do in the marketplace and make this a 5.5E so everything is backwards compatible.  Mistwell is right, this is a minor issue and will delay nothing as this is 5E 2.0 Electric boogaloo and it will be scooped up in droves by the masses.  See 3.5 as an example.
NKL4Lyfe

Corolinth

#31
February 14, 2024, 10:30:09 AM
Quote from: THE_Leopold on February 14, 2024, 10:17:19 AM
No he's actually done his homework and is informed on what WOTC is attempting to do in the marketplace and make this a 5.5E so everything is backwards compatible.  Mistwell is right, this is a minor issue and will delay nothing as this is 5E 2.0 Electric boogaloo and it will be scooped up in droves by the masses.  See 3.5 as an example.
Not quite. Yes, but not quite.

Like 3.5, there will be people who bitch and bitch and bitch that so much changed and their old 5E material isn't fully compatible with this new thing, and bitch and bitch and bitch about WotC wanting them to buy more books.

Eventually, and this is really going to piss some people off, 5E will become part of the OSR.

Armchair Gamer

#32
February 14, 2024, 10:35:19 AM
Quote from: Corolinth on February 14, 2024, 10:30:09 AM
Not quite. Yes, but not quite.

Like 3.5, there will be people who bitch and bitch and bitch that so much changed and their old 5E material isn't fully compatible with this new thing, and bitch and bitch and bitch about WotC wanting them to buy more books.

Eventually, and this is really going to piss some people off, 5E will become part of the OSR.

  Well, with 3.5, they had something of a point, given that the new MM changed things up enough so that old monsters were no longer technically 'legal' under the new rules, and legal/correct builds were a Big Deal in 3.X culture. I expect 5 vs. 5R is going to be more like 4E original monsters vs. 4E MM3/Essentials monsters--both legal, one just plays better at the table.

And I don't think 5E is going to be part of the OSR in any but the broadest sense--the cultural and gameplay assumptions are just too different. Unless you want to categorize Pathfinder and the 4E remnant/variants under the OSR as well.

BadApple

#33
February 14, 2024, 10:37:18 AM
Quote from: THE_Leopold on February 14, 2024, 10:17:19 AM
Quote from: BadApple on February 14, 2024, 09:56:49 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 14, 2024, 12:54:48 AM
Quote from: Omega on February 14, 2024, 12:48:35 AM


wotc is trying to pass this off as still 5e. They know the rubes will eat their pig swill happily.

Guys who are actually 5e fans who have read the recent UAs: "Damnit, they ditched all the new inventive stuff! This isn't even a new edition. All they're doing is basically adding like Tasha's 2.0!"

OSR bros who have never read it: "It's 6e! They're trying to pass this off as backwards compatible when we know it's not!"

The rubes are the OSR bros in this scenario who are just talking shit without reading any of it. All you would have to do is download any of the last 3-4 UAs to see they scrapped the "new" stuff quite some time ago.

Man, you are white knighting hard for WOTC  this morning.


No he's actually done his homework and is informed on what WOTC is attempting to do in the marketplace and make this a 5.5E so everything is backwards compatible.  Mistwell is right, this is a minor issue and will delay nothing as this is 5E 2.0 Electric boogaloo and it will be scooped up in droves by the masses.  See 3.5 as an example.

This is the same jackass that said Hasbro stock is up in another thread.  You're going to have to help me see him as anything other that a WOTC stan or I'm just going to keep calling him a white knight.
>Blade Runner RPG
Terrible idea, overwhelming majority of ttrpg players can't pass Voight-Kampff test.
    - Anonymous

GhostNinja

#34
February 14, 2024, 10:57:21 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 14, 2024, 12:50:23 AM
It is truly hilarious just how deeply out of touch y'all are about this topic.

Nope, I have been following this very closely.  We don't know what changes are being made to the monsters in the new edition are and people who are going to play the new edition (not me, I stopped giving WOTC my money because they suck) are going to want the new Monster Manual.

I don't know if you are purposely trolling or just white knighting for  WOTC but remember, no matter how much you do so, Wizards will never love you.
Ghostninja

Chris24601

#35
February 14, 2024, 12:04:15 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on February 14, 2024, 10:35:19 AM
And I don't think 5E is going to be part of the OSR in any but the broadest sense--the cultural and gameplay assumptions are just too different. Unless you want to categorize Pathfinder and the 4E remnant/variants under the OSR as well.
I'm pretty sure the vocal of the OSR would sooner disembowel themselves with a plastic spork than allow any of 4E remnant membership in their clique.

No, we must remain outside the camp shouting "Unclean! Unclean!"; spat upon and reviled as an example to all who would question the OSR's dogma.

BadApple

#36
February 14, 2024, 12:24:49 PM
Several older games have a tight following, not just older versions of D&D.  I think there's room for another community for it under the big tent of TTRPGs. 

I personally like 5e (until 10th level) and would like to see it stick around.  IMO, it's a better game than 3e/3.5/Pathfinder 1e. 
>Blade Runner RPG
Terrible idea, overwhelming majority of ttrpg players can't pass Voight-Kampff test.
    - Anonymous

THE_Leopold

#37
February 14, 2024, 03:06:38 PM
Quote from: BadApple on February 14, 2024, 10:37:18 AM


This is the same jackass that said Hasbro stock is up in another thread.  You're going to have to help me see him as anything other that a WOTC stan or I'm just going to keep calling him a white knight.

The only area that I'm stating Mistwell is correct is in regards to the fact that 5.5E will and does use stock 5E monsters as being backwards compatible and there will be "few" issues in regards to pushing out the PHB and DMG out early and wait till later for the MM to be updated.

NKL4Lyfe

Exploderwizard

#38
February 14, 2024, 03:39:11 PM
I guess people could still use the old monster manual for now but it will be a clumsy fit. The old MM will still have references to savagery and slavery  :o. It will also have XP awards for defeating them instead of the new social justice points system awards for defending them. After reading the new PHB and DMG, the new snowflake player base will be SHOCKED! Shocked I say, to see these barbaric references in the old MM. They won't quite know what to do and and may require therapy after reading.  ;)
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Klytus

#39
February 14, 2024, 04:35:25 PM
I have a really strong suspicion that the reason for the MM delay is that they were going to try to use AI art for it, and the community has been extremely vocal about their dislike of AI art. So now they're scrambling trying to get new art.
Klytus, I'm bored. What plaything can you offer me today?

An obscure body in the S-K System, Your Majesty. The inhabitants refer to it as the planet... "Earth".

Svenhelgrim

#40
February 14, 2024, 04:38:49 PM Last Edit: February 14, 2024, 04:43:56 PM by Svenhelgrim
Quote from: Klytus on February 14, 2024, 04:35:25 PM
I have a really strong suspicion that the reason for the MM delay is that they were going to try to use AI art for it, and the community has been extremely vocal about their dislike of AI art. So now they're scrambling trying to get new art.
Possibly.  Or maybe the have to teach the A.I. how to write and create monster stat blocks and descriptions since they fired most of their staff?

Ruprecht

#41
February 14, 2024, 04:51:01 PM
It would be nice if they took the time to dice up the existing Monster Manual(s) and re-arrange them by CR. Low Level monsters, Mid level monsters, Epic level monsters. They won't do that because the average player stops by 10th level so they wouldn't sell as many high level ones but it would be easier for the DMs. Either that or make one big fat monster manual comprised of all of the 5E monsters in one place (which I think they are doing with the classes and races so maybe). Oh, and release all the Mordekin and Volo monsters under Creative Commons like the Monster Manual.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

rytrasmi

#42
February 14, 2024, 05:02:38 PM
There are a fuckton of bestiaries out there, many of them excellent.

What would this one bring to the table? Do we really need another iteration that is a day late and a dollar short?
The worms crawl in and the worms crawl out
The ones that crawl in are lean and thin
The ones that crawl out are fat and stout
Your eyes fall in and your teeth fall out
Your brains come tumbling down your snout
Be merry my friends
Be merry

Ruprecht

#43
February 14, 2024, 05:06:05 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on February 14, 2024, 05:02:38 PM
There are a fuckton of bestiaries out there, many of them excellent.

What would this one bring to the table? Do we really need another iteration that is a day late and a dollar short?
Yes. They are the leader in the industry (for now, like it or not) and I'd like to see them do something for usability for a change. They are gonna reprint anyway.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

rytrasmi

#44
February 14, 2024, 05:15:55 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on February 14, 2024, 05:06:05 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on February 14, 2024, 05:02:38 PM
There are a fuckton of bestiaries out there, many of them excellent.

What would this one bring to the table? Do we really need another iteration that is a day late and a dollar short?
Yes. They are the leader in the industry (for now, like it or not) and I'd like to see them do something for usability for a change. They are gonna reprint anyway.

The leader can't publish a bestiary on time. Leader in revenue for sure. Not a leader in anything else.
The worms crawl in and the worms crawl out
The ones that crawl in are lean and thin
The ones that crawl out are fat and stout
Your eyes fall in and your teeth fall out
Your brains come tumbling down your snout
Be merry my friends
Be merry
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