Quote from: myleftnut;1090782Quick some troll get in there and accuse a mod of sexual assault.

Are you seriously inciting someone to commit a criminal offence?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1090973Pretty much. We're all quibbling over definitions now.

Many threads end up that way, unfortunately.

I have to say seeing that thread about X-card over at the TBP guarantees I probably will never use them. The perpetually offended mob love their perfect world scenarios. Whenever the use of an X-card issued the entire game comes to a full stop and everyone else at the table will be happy at about and spend hours trying to figure out what is bothering the person who uses an X-card. Real life means that most table will use that method once or twice and then toss it to side for being far too disruptive. I find the whole concept of an X-card an oxymoron. A form of communication used to communicate a gamers displeasure about something at the table yet also making it so they don't have to say what is bothering them. So minutes if not hours are wasted trying to play the rpg version of where Waldo without any success as it is a guessing game. Not to mention unless one is playing with like minded individuals most are not going to take kindly to sessions coming to a full stop with no resolution.

The sheer sense of entitlement over at TBP where everyone and anyone must and will simply bend over backwards to someone using an X-card is sickening imo. Yes I will try and work with a player to find a solution and resolve the issue. Within a certain amount of time and I expect some kind of cooperation from the player using the X-card as well. Waving it around and not telling me what is bothering you is a sure way to be asked to leave a table. That is what usually and will happen at many tables. One player desires are to be respected so do all the other players. I'm not going to kill an entire campaign because a player won't tell me what is bothering him even in secret. Or joins a table where the main focus or session might include spiders yet decides to join even if an arachnophobe. Even the whole issue about reskinning the spiders into something else. The entire table has to agree not just one person.


I'm not going to rework an entire campaign for one person especially if I do not know the reason why and the entire table has to agree on it. The bullshit about "one persons desires are more important than the game and everyone else desires" can be tossed into an active nuclear reactor and stay there. Rpgs are a collaborative effort and not one person gets to tell everyone else how to play.

Quote from: BrokenCounsel;10908801. The game was poorly described to begin with
2. Rolfe was a prick for running this kind of edgy game at a con of this kind without full upfront disclosure in the con blurb
3. These failures lead to a bait & switch situation where the players paid to play in a game with a certain set of expectations, and then found themselves in something much different to advertized

It was not poorly describe it was short but it was obvious from his description that this was not going to be a standard Things from the Flood and was marked as 18+.

Quote from: Omega;1091007Depends on how unsupervised they are? :eek:

But still not something you'd run at a con that is presenting itself as family friendly. Even if they OKed it.

Jesus fucking Christ the guy did not play a video of Hostel Part one, have some fucking perspective.

Quote from: soltakss;1091041Are you seriously inciting someone to commit a criminal offence?

Like Jussie Smollett? Seems that's no big thing.  Wait you would probably need know some corrupt Democrat politician or their wife to get away with it.

QuoteI'm not going to rework an entire campaign for one person especially if I do not know the reason why and the entire table has to agree on it. The bullshit about "one persons desires are more important than the game and everyone else desires" can be tossed into an active nuclear reactor and stay there. Rpgs are a collaborative effort and not one person gets to tell everyone else how to play.

This.

The X card potentially places game control in the hands of individuals who don't have to justify why they're bringing the game to a screeching halt. The GM may have done nothing wrong. He or she may not have introduced anything edgy or controversial at all, but something that's caused even a minor problem (no matter how trivial) to a player can, with no justification, be used to make the GM alter the narrative to suit the X carder. Forget how much effort a GM has already put into preparing the game and actually fucking running it. Forget that making even a small change on the fly can impact the entire flow of the game. Forget that there are other people involved who may not give a flying fuck about whatever's 'triggering'. Bring to the game to halt, fold your arms, refuse to justify why, and insist on the GM changing, there and then, whatever it is you don't like.

This is why I don't go to fucking Breakout in Toronto, the spiritual home of SJW gaming and X Card Heaven.

Quote from: Anselyn;1091040My point remains though. This is not a binary choice. The options are not kid-exclusive Disneyfication OR adult-only anything-goes events.  Also, adults having their fun do need to know the limits of reasonable behaviour within their own group.

"Reasonable behavior" is a huge gray area to cover, especially with a public event where you likely don't know the players before starting.
Is nudity unreasonable? How about a ranger in lingerie? Or a dwarf who makes poop jokes? A sphinx whose riddles are all about masturbation innuendo?
Someone always winds up dancing on the line between reasonable and unreasonable.

I can see why some people might have been taken by surprise. When most people think of horror, they might be expecting gory shit but not necessarily fare like the Last House on the Left or I Spit On Your Grave.  I don't think it warrants a ban, but if I were to include those things in my game,  I would give people a heads up. A slap on the wrist and a requirement to have some sort of advisory would have been enough.

Quote from: sureshot;1091048I have to say seeing that thread about X-card over at the TBP guarantees I probably will never use them.

To be honest, I've only seen them available a couple of times and they were "This is an X-Card, if something happens in the game that makes you feel uncomfortable, then just show the X-Card and we'll move on", and everyone in the game went "OK, no problem".

There has only been one time when we could have used an X-card, when I had a chaos monster that was a mass of squiggly, squirmy worms in a heaving mass, when one new player said "Oh, I have a phobia of exactly that kind of thing", so I dropped the emphasis and never used it again.

Now, I know that some people are against them on principle and some people will deliberately emphasise things that you could oppose with an X-card, just because an X-card can be used, but I don't normally play like that. Bear in mind, that in a post about things that people wouldn't have in their games, I listed about 20 examples in games I had played in, to have them referred as "atrocities", so I'm not a little snowflake who needs protecting.

To be clear I don't hate the concept of an X-card. I just find that it can be distruptive in that if a player does not ha e to say what is bothering them. I don't mind temporarily stopping s session. I need to know what is bothering the player using the X-card. If I'm all I'm going to receive is silence or evasive answers then I will ask the player to leave the campaign. I need more from a player than the tapping and/or waving around of an X-card.

If ones goes by whst they say over at TBP not only am I supposed to be able to read minds. The rest of the group including myself should happily have our free time wasted . If after five hours I and the rest of the table stll can't figure out whaf is bothering the user of the X-card too bad so sad suck it up buttercup. The group time and everythimg elsd is tertiary to feelings of tje X-card user.

An X-Card is always either completely unnecessary or completely insufficient.  It's like a false pillar holding up your roof:  It is either merely decorative to make people feel good, or creating a false impression of security.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1091092An X-Card is always either completely unnecessary or completely insufficient.  It's like a false pillar holding up your roof:  It is either merely decorative to make people feel good, or creating a false impression of security.

If decoration makes people feel good, then is that a bad thing?

I don't generally use the X-card, and I agree it's not necessary - but if people like it, then they should play how they like. In my experience, it's a token symbol that gets put out that then gets mostly ignored.

Quote from: Ratman"Reasonable behavior" is a huge gray area to cover, especially with a public event where you likely don't know the players before starting.
Is nudity unreasonable? How about a ranger in lingerie? Or a dwarf who makes poop jokes? A sphinx whose riddles are all about masturbation innuendo?
Someone always winds up dancing on the line between reasonable and unreasonable.

Well, player nudity is unreasonable. I don't think that's controversial.

You are, of course, right. But isn't realising that you've acidentally crossed a line with a group and reining back part of reasonable behaviour?

Of course, a double entendre can just slip out, as the actress said to the bishop. But - we're not as happy with them as we used to be:

"I am a wondrous creature: to women a thing of joyful expectation, to close-lying companions serviceable. I harm no city-dweller excepting my slayer alone. My stem is erect and tall––I stand up in bed––and whiskery somewhere down below. Sometimes a countryman's quite comely daughter will venture, bumptious girl, to get a grip on me. She assaults my red self and seizes my head and clenches me in a cramped place. She will soon feel the effect of her encounter with me, this curl-locked woman who squeezes me. Her eye will be wet."

The Exeter Book from ~975 AD. [Ans: An onion]

Quote from: Anselyn;1091115Well, player nudity is unreasonable. I don't think that's controversial.

Well, there goes my weekend.

QuoteYou are, of course, right. But isn't realising that you've acidentally crossed a line with a group and reining back part of reasonable behaviour?

Exactly! With an equally reasonable response. This whole tempest could have been avoided if a player or players saying the naked sore bum stuff was out of line, and the organizers telling the GM some players didn't like that, and asking him to knock it off.
Or, even better, the players speak up at the table and give the GM direct feedback.

But here we are, with people flipping the fuck out over stuff that did or didn't happen, people getting banned from events to cover the (sore) asses of organizers against the mob, and threads on forums yelling at each other over the details.