Quote from: GeekyBugle;1090435Problem is the spoilers to your campaign (or one shot) what we need is more classifications as Grimm suggested in his latest video on the matter, so you put a horror + rated X in your game and there's no need for anything else. I agree that springing it just like that is bad form, but we still don't know the whole of the story. Grimm is going to interview the asshat, then we will know more.



Agreed



Agreed, after all that was my contention from the get go, not about the con banning him (even for life)



Agreed, should he repeat the stunt he SHOULD get banned everywhere, not because of the fictional gang rape of characters 18+ but because he just springs it on unsuspecting people. And "It's just a prank bruh!" It's no excuse.

I'd say he should be banned everywhere if he does it a second time because rape is gross.  People can play that out if they all opt into it but by default he should have learned you need to have them opt in explicitly not any half asses implied whatever.  
One time (the current situation) is a failure to understand the rules.  A second time is a either stupid or just being an ass.  No one has to put up with that.

Quote from: soltakss;1090410You just don't do that at Convention games. Sure, if you advertised it as 18+ Horror with sexual violence then people know beforehand whether to sign up. But springing that kind of thing in-game is just bad.

No. Its worse. Its luring people into a trap just to shock and offend them. If he did not mention any of this in the con outline then he was setting people up deliberately. Or was so appallingly stupid as to think this was ok that he should be banned just for being THAT stupid.

I do alot of horror stuff thats really severe for a select set of players who want me to run that. But I also run stuff thats pretty damn dame or even very lid friendly as I've done stiff for schools and cons and have enough common sense to know whats ok and what isnt.

This isnt much different from foul mouthery at a con. And you can be kicked out for that too.

Quote from: Omega;1090489No. Its worse. Its luring people into a trap just to shock and offend them. If he did not mention any of this in the con outline then he was setting people up deliberately. Or was so appallingly stupid as to think this was ok that he should be banned just for being THAT stupid.

I do alot of horror stuff thats really severe for a select set of players who want me to run that. But I also run stuff thats pretty damn dame or even very lid friendly as I've done stiff for schools and cons and have enough common sense to know whats ok and what isnt.

This isnt much different from foul mouthery at a con. And you can be kicked out for that too.

Yeah it's bad form for sure. I really didn't think of the fact that all of their interaction can be overheard by any surrounding tables which means to me this just isn't the right place to run that type of game.

Eh. I would have just got up and left.

/shrug.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1090435Agreed, should he repeat the stunt he SHOULD get banned everywhere, not because of the fictional gang rape of characters 18+ but because he just springs it on unsuspecting people. And "It's just a prank bruh!" It's no excuse.

Anyone and everyone who needs to be told that including rape in an rpg scenario without telling the players, then having to be told making a joke of it for shits and giggles is an idiot. It's not a failure of not knowing the rules either. It was some social retarded dare I say mentally ill gamer who thought running a rape fantasy scenario for a joke is normal and good thing to do. If one needs to be told "never use sexual assault in an rpg" is absolutely not all their mentally imo,  Certain topics no matter what they are should never be introduced into rpgs or general conversation without making sure that everyone else is good with the subject on hand. The guy went out of his way to be clueless on purpose and rather than apologizing admitted it was done on purpose.

Yes the players could have walked away if they were bothered. If I was told I'm playing a standard game of Pathfinder and instead I find out I'm playing out the DM creepy sexual assault fantasy I would be pretty pissed too and report the stupid socially retarded moron to the con organizers.

Quote from: Omega;1090489No. Its worse. Its luring people into a trap just to shock and offend them. If he did not mention any of this in the con outline then he was setting people up deliberately. Or was so appallingly stupid as to think this was ok that he should be banned just for being THAT stupid.

What does bother me is how some here really don't want to understand how bad something like that is. Unless one is told and more importantly fine with such a scenario. No one wants to be ambushed at the last minute and find out they are playing "Sexual assault the DM D&D fantasy" at any table. This is not an innocent mistake. This was someone who went out of his way to circumvent both the rules of the con and the what the players expected to play. For no good reason than shits and giggles. The con was in the right to do what they did even with an 18+ rating

Quote from: Omega;1090489I do alot of horror stuff thats really severe for a select set of players who want me to run that. But I also run stuff thats pretty damn dame or even very lid friendly as I've done stiff for schools and cons and have enough common sense to know whats ok and what isnt.

This is not even a lack of common sense. This was a douche bag who wanted to offend his players with a last minute bait and switch rape fantasy scenario for the sole purpose of seeing how it bothered his players. That is not something that happens randomly. This was deliberate case of the DM doing something stupid for more truly stupid reasons and giving negative exposure to the hobby. While giving more ammunition to the SJWs about rpgs and gaming having to be safe spaces.

Quote from: Omega;1090489This isnt much different from foul mouthery at a con. And you can be kicked out for that too.

I think it is worse imo. Every now and then I might drop a "fuck these shitty dice" at a table because of bad dice rolls. I apologize and only the gamers with the fake innocence routine get truly offended. My narration of a scene which would include sexual assault (which I would never do I abhor any violence of that kind) would get my ass kicked by my ex-girlfriend, brother and pretty much everyone that knew me. Both physically and verbally. I would be kicked out of the family even if it was said or worse tried tio hide behind "but it was joke" lame defence. Sexual assault even was never ever okay at any con or almost any and all tables I ran or played at. There was one thankfully rare exception and I left the table one hour into the campaign.

Why some here not saying you are want to make it out to be anything but something deliberate because it can't be anything but is beyond me. This is not an honest mistake it was an idiot adding very questionable subject matter to his rpg scenario on purpose, not telling the players, than freely admitting it was done on purpose. To me that it textbook doing it on purpose.

Quote from: tenbones;1090500Eh. I would have just got up and left.

/shrug.

How far did the session actually go though? It might have been over before anyone had a chance to really decide.

As for why a person might not leave when its apparent things are going badly.
One might be they did not want to seem impolite, even in a fucked up situation like that.
Another might be they were unsure if the DM was joking or not. Some people have really odd ideas of what constitutes a joke. EG: Stuff that might get you punched in the face.
Another might be they were hoping that after that bad start things would mellow out.
And one big one, if it is the case is... they might stick it out if they payed an attendee fee for the session. Like how GenCon works. Though at least at GenCon if a session fails you can get the ticket refunded. Usually. I had one year where they didnt. And I have sat around waiting for a DM to arrive for an event long after I should have walked. But we had nothing else to do at the time and hope springs eternal.

If tickets were involved then that may be the real reason they didnt walk.

Quote from: trechriron;1090187First, advertising an 18+ adult horror game at a convention generically doesn't give the GM license to gang rape teenagers. This is a sensitive subject to some people. You don't just spring it without having SOME kind of discussion first.
TL|DR Moronic InCel fat-beard drops FATAL on the table HARD without a postcard. Crowd fails sanity check and kicks him out. Forever. He deserves it. Unfortunately, news at 11.

I kind of disagree on "Forever. He deserves it."

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1090193"Gang rape fictional teenagers"

Kick him out? Yes
Ban him? Probably
Ruin his life and that of anybody close to him that doesn't join in the witch hunt? Hell no!

Agreed.

As a fan of the original KULT rpg ... kind of ... not to mention a fan of understanding what 18+ MEANS ....
This is just nonsensical.
Me?
Leftist, defends communism, liberal values, empathetic, and so on.
I frankly applauded the idea of being "Woke" when it started.
But this is nonsense.

Horror is HORROR.
It is not supposed to be cuddly, it may very well spring uncomfortable shit on your ass!

By the way, does anyone think what the DM did was a good thing and he shouldn't have been sanctioned for it?

Quote from: soltakss;1090528By the way, does anyone think what the DM did was a good thing and he shouldn't have been sanctioned for it?

I don't view it as a bad thing or a good thing.  It was definitely a STUPID thing.

How, in today's climate, can you not have known the following chain of events would occur:

1) You spring controversial thing X on players at a public event
2.) Someone, either a participant or a passerby or a 3rd party that hears about it gets offended
3.) The offended runs to Twitter to post about it
4.) Outrage ensues and the con if forced to take a position that will most likely not be in your favor
5.) Whatever they do, it won't be enough and the online rage machine will demand more blood
6.) You, your friends, your family, your place of employment, anyone you associate with or that associates with you will become a target

We've been dealing with this shit for a couple of years now.  It's sad that this is what happens, but at this point it's not to be unexpected.

Quote from: soltakss;1090528By the way, does anyone think what the DM did was a good thing and he shouldn't have been sanctioned for it?

[strike]I agree the GM in question should have been sanctioned, if only to the point of basically being disinvited to run any more games at that con. I actually think, however, that the failure of his actions isn't so much in what he did but in how and why he did it.[/strike] (EDIT: Struck out due to later discovery of actual context of game content, see below.)

Horrifying content, even truly shocking and offensive content, being presented in a piece of horror entertainment is par for the course. What separates RPGs from novels and movies, in this context -- and I actually owe some of this reasoning to game designer and old-school wargamer Brian Gleichman, with whom I had a discussion about it many years ago on TBP when the controversial game Little Fears came out -- is that RPGs, by definition, involve a degree of personal identification, presence, and direct interaction that other media don't.  It is entirely conceivable to me that many horror creators may enjoy contemplating the reactions of those too appalled to continue further with their work, but there is a difference between contemplating it vicariously with readers or viewers one will never meet or interact with, who are reacting on behalf of characters someone else created months or years after the work was finished and released, and gleefully enjoying the real-time shock, disgust or upset in person of real people right in front of you, right now, whose emotions have been personally invested into an identity they created for the express purpose of that investment. The former has at least some impersonality, distance, and the option of caveat emptor, usually helped by being able to learn about truly difficult content before one decides whether to read/view it or not (q.v. films like Funny Games, Raw or Irreversible); the latter seems to me to boil down to nothing more than a form of emotional ambush, bullying and exploitation, which I hated in the schoolyard forty years ago and despise just as much now.

In short, content is one thing, but manner of delivery does make a difference. If your definition of fun consists of ruining other people's fun, don't be surprised if people kick you out of the party.

(Now all that said, today's Internet outrage mobs are distressingly prone to doing exactly the same thing and defining their fun as that of ruining other people's (EDIT: as reality has immediately proved). So if a mechanism to enforce proportional response doesn't develop soon it may have to be implemented.)

Jessica Price has named the guy https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1134547377669304320 I will leaves it to the experts here to decide if this is doxing.

Quote from: Omega;1090323Thats the problem with the UK. They ban anything that 'might' be dangerous. Or even words that someone somewhere out there might find offensive or... dangerous!

TMNT is a good example. Someone used nunchucks to rob a store? All nunchucks are banned as are depictions of them. Ninjas are scary and use pointy things. Banned. Now its Teenage Mutant HERO Turtles! And so on ad nausium. Someone used a replica Klingon weapon in a riot or somesuch? Banned. Think they even banned pocket knives. The word Dweeb? Banned. (or at least censored). This on top of their 'internet police squad' and surveillance cameras increasingly all over the place. For your safety!
.

All that was lifted once the BBFC  got rid of that twat James Ferman.  Their censorship is a lot more subtle now.

Quote from: soltakss;1090528By the way, does anyone think what the DM did was a good thing and he shouldn't have been sanctioned for it?

If the GM had a run a scenario with underage players and underage characters where there was  a graphic scene of gang rape and provided no information regarding the content of the scenario then yes he would have deserved the sanction  . Since none of this actually happened the Social Outrage mob can go fuck themselves.

Quote from: Gagarth;1090554Jessica Price has named the guy https://twitter.com/Delafina777/status/1134547377669304320 I will leaves it to the experts here to decide if this is doxing.

Yet some people doubted this would become a witch hunt and an attempt to destroy the guy's life. Fuck the woke morons and their enablers.

Quote from: Catelf;1090527I kind of disagree on "Forever. He deserves it."

Agreed.

As a fan of the original KULT rpg ... kind of ... not to mention a fan of understanding what 18+ MEANS ....
This is just nonsensical.
Me?
Leftist, defends communism, liberal values, empathetic, and so on.
I frankly applauded the idea of being "Woke" when it started.
But this is nonsense.

Horror is HORROR.
It is not supposed to be cuddly, it may very well spring uncomfortable shit on your ass!

So I meet another commie that defends freedom, glad to meet you, even if we don't agree in anything but freedom.

I knew from the word go that getting woke would degenerate in this, because it comes from intersectionality and post modernism. Fuck the woke morons.