My core problem with the UKGE incident is the slippery slope.

Everyone is free to deny any slippery slope exists, but you have to be willfully ignorant of the past decade. It's just paranoia...except the SJW brigade and their ersatz allies in the MSM and social media companies have been squirting grease everywhere. Yesterday, let's ban hate speech. Today, everything we don't like is hate speech.

Was the UKGE GM an asshat? Yes, including suggestions of rape in con game is dumbo dumb with extra stupid sauce.

Were his player's harmed in any way? No. Games aren't real. If you are too mentally ill to play fantasy games, don't play fantasy games.

Should the UKGE GM be banned? No, his game was listed 18+ and alluded to PCs being young morons on a spring break style sex drugs and booze party island vacation, AKA the same spring breaks where in REAL LIFE we regularly hear about REAL adults being abducted, killed, raped, etc. Therefore, its not realistic the player's didn't know the genre of the event.

Is the banning dangerous for the hobby? Yes, because it empowers the worst of the hobby, those who would impose their sense of safety, sense of entitlement and sense of righteousness onto the rest of us.

Quote from: Omega;1092328So... you were a... victim... of the parade?

He's still posting so apparently he's one of the parade survivors. So sad for the victims of that parade. My thoughts and prayers go out to them.

Fortunately, there's a GoFundMe for the brave survivors.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1092346My core problem with the UKGE incident is the slippery slope.

Everyone is free to deny any slippery slope exists, but you have to be willfully ignorant of the past decade. It's just paranoia...except the SJW brigade and their ersatz allies in the MSM and social media companies have been squirting grease everywhere. Yesterday, let's ban hate speech. Today, everything we don't like is hate speech.

Was the UKGE GM an asshat? Yes, including suggestions of rape in con game is dumbo dumb with extra stupid sauce.

Were his player's harmed in any way? No. Games aren't real. If you are too mentally ill to play fantasy games, don't play fantasy games.

Should the UKGE GM be banned? No, his game was listed 18+ and alluded to PCs being young morons on a spring break style sex drugs and booze party island vacation, AKA the same spring breaks where in REAL LIFE we regularly hear about REAL adults being abducted, killed, raped, etc. Therefore, its not realistic the player's didn't know the genre of the event.

Is the banning dangerous for the hobby? Yes, because it empowers the worst of the hobby, those who would impose their sense of safety, sense of entitlement and sense of righteousness onto the rest of us.

QuoteSo... you were a... victim... of the parade?

He's still posting so apparently he's one of the parade survivors. So sad for the victims of that parade. My thoughts and prayers go out to them.

Fortunately, there's a GoFundMe for the brave survivors.

This is so full of win, wisdom and lulz I just can't even.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1092341I had to wait in line to check in for over 40 minutes, and this was in the elite lie. The humanity of it!

And the title of the thread and the posts by GeekyBugle shows the manufactured outrage. They can take their X-Cards and shove them but that has nothing to do with the actions of the shitty GM at the con.

Well to be fair the woke morons DID start a witch hunt. And did get the GM banned.

But re-read the posts through this thread and you'll see an overall shift in attitude as it became more and more apparent what was going on.

You had a GM being tasteless at a con.
You had at least one, possibly 2 players afterwards complain to the mob rather than the con.
You had the mob then complain to the con.
You had the con kick the GM out.
You had the admittance of the GM that there was some crass material in the session that would have been offnsive to some no matter how he framed it.
You have the admittance of the players that they did not voice any displeasure and waited till after?

So overall its a daisy chain of screwups from everyone.

Should he be banned permanently? Possibly only if he did it again or had a history of this sort of stuff. Or if it turned out this was a set-up to deliberately cause an uproar. Neither seems apparent so I'd have just banned him for a year and issued a warning to be more careful next time.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1092250Stupid Raptors will be messing up downtown when I go to a meeting tomorrow.
And one of the players went to twitter to comment on the bad experience she had because that is what social media is used for, to make comments. Instead of blaming her, maybe consider that it is not transparent to everyone, especially newer con attendees, of what exactly the complaint process is and why they should use it.

What level intelligence do you need to figure out if you have complaint you go to someone with con staff badge and say "I would like to make a complaint".  Stop making excuses for entitled cry babies who have to have everything done for them.

I'm sure it's been posted before, but did you scroll the Twitter thread about this? It could have been SJW parody. The original complainant is "shaking", the organizers almost immediately investigate but it's not enough no matter what they do, the GM should be "banned from life itself", Jessica Price (enough said), they talk about doxing and releasing personal info, they talk about the safety of the attendants (as if they were ever unsafe).

https://twitter.com/GeekGirlBookWrm/status/1134503931932024832

Quote from: Trond;1092416I'm sure it's been posted before, but did you scroll the Twitter thread about this? It could have been SJW parody. The original complainant is "shaking", the organizers almost immediately investigate but it's not enough no matter what they do, the GM should be "banned from life itself", Jessica Price (enough said), they talk about doxing and releasing personal info, they talk about the safety of the attendants (as if they were ever unsafe).

https://twitter.com/GeekGirlBookWrm/status/1134503931932024832

If you go to Twitter you will find that kind of stuff. The solution should be obvious: don't go to Twitter unless that's what you want to find.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1092440If you go to Twitter you will find that kind of stuff. The solution should be obvious: don't go to Twitter unless that's what you want to find.

Commonly called burying your head in the sand.

At this point it seems the GM lied about not explicitly including rape in their scenario, and the 'victim' took the incident straight to social media instead of reporting it to the con, which led to the wrong person being accused. Also this wasn't their brother's first RPG experience.

So fuck both of them.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1091549I have never met nor heard of a GM who was above scrutiny. I know, however, that victim blaming/shaming is a buzzword/hashtag ("We believe survivors"). And I know that the user of an x-card is above scrutiny in using it. It lends itself to abuse.

And again, it's no more abusable than any other method or system present in play. RPG horror stories is full of GMs overstepping their bounds and players "just playing their characters". And other players will talk to someone who consistently uses the #XCard to shut down the kind of play they want to engage in to either address the disconnect or explain that this is simply not the game for them. What's important is no one is judged or forced to explain themselves.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1091549So it could have been prevented instead by a player saying that they, for example, don't like this type of sexualized content and it's not what they've been signing up for?

The #XCard is there for when you need an immediate, unanbiguous, non-verbal signal to stop. It's an additional communications channel, not a replacement for one, and given what we know now would have prevented this incident.

Quote from: Omega;1091561This too. It is why I stuck with GMing a campaign after some players had pretty much ruined my enjoyment of it. I kept going out of politeness to the other players and because one of the problem players was suffering a severe medical problem. And they were VERY used to being really vulgar and offensive at a different group and actually were trying to tone it down for me. That helped alot in my decision to keep going. Especially when it could have been that players last campaign. All had fun.

But not disrupting others enjoyment, if you believe they still are, can also be a reson why someone wouldnt just walk.

It's somewhat ironic how often I see people suffer because they aren't more of an asshole

Quote from: Omega;1091561Though my money is still on the money angle and you booked a time slot you usually cant get back without some effort or hassle.

Quote from: Trond;1091593"They"? Both Grim Jim and this GM are men.

Their gender is irrelevant to the situation at hand.

Isn't it?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091705I see no reason why a competing event with its own values can't be created, and succeed in drawing in its own audience.

The only reason I can see is the #CtrlLeft will try to shut it down and defame everyone involved.

Whatever they can't control, they kill.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1092058https://millionwordman.blogspot.com/2019/06/on-inappropriate-content-in-games-and.html?spref=fb&m=1

Finally found the link I had misplaced. From the organizer.

Thank you.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1092060The first victim of the mob mentality is the innocent.

Which is exactly what happens when one puts feels over facts.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1092250And one of the players went to twitter to comment on the bad experience she had because that is what social media is used for, to make comments. Instead of blaming her, maybe consider that it is not transparent to everyone, especially newer con attendees, of what exactly the complaint process is and why they should use it.

The link you shared showed just how transparent and ubiquitous con support was. So if they didn't use it, that's on them.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1092250The only ones spouting off his name are sourcing it from the YouTube video.

No, shitstains like Jessica Price were already naming and shaming way before that.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1092269Nope, saying how great or terrible something was on your social media is pretty much normal behavior. There is no requirement that anyone has to report anything to the Con. Just like if I want to bitch about how bumpy my flight is now, I can make a Facebook post on it, I am not required to call United.

Yes.

And look where that gets us.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1092269Focusing on this is just victim blaming. They did not drop a rape scenario like a giant turd on the table, the GM did.

No, they just created a situation where the wrong person ended up being accused.

Quote from: Gagarth;1092544Commonly called burying your head in the sand.

Better than burying your head in Twitter.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1092545And again, it's no more abusable than any other method or system present in play. RPG horror stories is full of GMs overstepping their bounds and players "just playing their characters". And other players will talk to someone who consistently uses the #XCard to shut down the kind of play they want to engage in to either address the disconnect or explain that this is simply not the game for them. What's important is no one is judged or forced to explain themselves.

You're wrong; this is self-contradictory. If the user of an x-card doesn't have to explain themselves, they are above and beyond scrutiny by the GM and the other players. There is no checks and balances to the x-card - and if there was you wouldn't need it (as you could simply talk about things). Thus, it lends itself to abuse. No checks and balances.

I will refer you over to the official x-card document and this example from it (page 12, emphasis mine):
"What things have you seen X-Carded?
I've seen the X-Card used easily 60-100+ times (I play a lot of games with a lot of people all over the world). Examples:

• I described an NPC smoking. A player was trying to quit and felt uncomfortable.
  
• We played a modern realistic horror game. Someone introduced funny elves.
• I described plane turbulence. This triggered a player and luckily I stopped asap (we had to stop the game as well) and we did what we could to help the person in question."

Personally, I see the following potential causes for abuse of the x-card:

• A player gets triggered by all kinds of trivial stuff
• A player uses the x-card to draw attention (the twitter response to the UKGE event shows that people love to do that - not only do they get free attention, they also get to feel like the twitter mob is giving some some kind of power over the "bad guy"; feels good, I'm sure)
• A player doesn't like the GM and wants to troll him
• A player doesn't like the x-card and uses it repeatedly (but not too obviously) to derail the game/troll the others
• A player is bored and has nothing to do

Another example we recently had was a guy being triggered by virtual violence against wolves in combat since he loves dogs. The GM accomodated him, narrated them as spiders but used the wolf statline. If it works for everyone involved, that's great. However, and this is my crucial point, I will always stand up for the right of the GM to say: "No, I have planned it this way. These are the Starks you're fighting and not the white walkers. I'm sorry if you have a problem with it but the party is going to fight against wolves (or hungry dogs if it's against Ramsay Bolton) here."

It's alright to say 'No'. Not every unease needs to be comforted. You don't need to include everyone at every price. Role-playing can involve a conflict of interests. The x-card resolves such a conflict unquestionably in favor of anyone who taps the x. If I want to play this and you don't, I want to retain the right to play this nonetheless, knowing it might cause you to abandon the session.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1092545The #XCard is there for when you need an immediate, unanbiguous, non-verbal signal to stop. It's an additional communications channel, not a replacement for one, and given what we know now would have prevented this incident.

This is misrepresentation. This is no communication; it's an order. A command. To be obeyed without question. There's no back-and-forth if the x-card user doesn't want to talk about it. If a back-and-forth was allowed, you wouldn't need an x-card and could just talk about it to begin with. Like adults.

If you want smokers in your game or wolves, it's perfectly okay to have them. Of course, it's nice to accomodate players but, by all means, not every unease needs to be worked around without question.

Let me make it clear in the strongest possible terms: nobody has a right to make everybody else around them tip-toe on eggshells. If you're that kind of person I reserve the right to disinvite you from any game I run. And that's also why there won't be any x-card in any game I run.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1092545It's somewhat ironic how often I see people suffer because they aren't more of an asshole

True. But in this case it was a personal irk and my walking would have effected the whole gaming group. And overall it was one early incident and after that was really minor stuff. Had there been a second big incident I'd have blown up or just shut the game down on the spot. I do have my limits. As said. We overall had fun through the campaign other than that.

The other time I stuck through DMing a less than pleasant group was because one player was absolutely convinced I was running a module. So I stuck through with a smug feeling because I wasn't. And the other players told him so at the end. That was more a little annoyance rather than something offensive though. Not worth walking, totally worth staying.That and I have known a few other players who have this thing against modules.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1092545RPG horror stories is full of GMs overstepping their bounds and players "just playing their characters".

To be fair, r/rpghorrorstories is full of made-up cringe tales designed to one-up previously posted cringe-tales.

Quote from: kythri;1092740To be fair, r/rpghorrorstories is full of made-up cringe tales designed to one-up previously posted cringe-tales.

You're not wrong. All those stories should come with a 'dramatic reenactment' disclaimer.

Thing is the same can be said of all the hypothetical misuses of the #XCard people keep presenting, and I've yet to see one real world example which supports these conclusions.

Perhaps, then, that's the issue with the X-Card.  It's existence has a chilling effect on gameplay?

Quote from: kythri;1092777Perhaps, then, that's the issue with the X-Card.  It's existence has a chilling effect on gameplay?

Feature, not bug.