Quote from: GameDaddy;1091530The douchebag that was banned for life at UKGE completely failed at this. Not only did he not talk upfront about potential traumatic content included in his games, only springing this on the players once the game began. He also deliberately omitted any mention of it during pregame registration which went against two separate convention policies, the "safe space" policy for gamers, as well as the convention policy which required the GM provide information about the nature of the game, describing this as horror was simply deceptive. I'll say it once more, even James Desborough acknowledged this failure, however went on to argue that dude shouldn't have been banned, even though he was in clear violation of two convention policies.

I know there are some folk here that enjoy "edgy" and "angst ridden" games. Do the majority of us a favor, and run your game in your hotel suite, or just stay home and run the game for your friends. I'm going to let you know right now, such games aren't going to be welcome in the gaming conventions I attend, especially if you being deceptive about your game content, and immoral or ammoral goals. Games are about recreation, and recreation is not about hurting or harming people, or testing your gamers morals, or their capacity to withstand pain or suffering, or anything else like that. If you think gaming is about that, I have some folks who would be very interested in testing your morals, proclivity for debasement, and unlawful conduct.

You fucktards that want to fantasize about your rape scenarios with strangers, stay the hell away from my gaming tables.

Quote from: CarlD.;1091601These seem regional. Being from the US, I'm not familiar with the terms. What's the gist of them?

Club 18-30 was a commercial vacation company offering cheap combos of Spring Break meets Jersey Shore (mostly around the Mediterranean). Essex lad culture is Jersey Shore turned up to eleven basically.


The phenomenon was in equal parts popular and hated-upon, with more than a few controversies (and deaths!) over the years.

To put into context just how nuts some of these outings became, the British Consul in Ibiza(?) resigned, he was so embarrassed by having to cleaning up the (literal and diplomatic) messes caused by drunken British louts, and at least one country / region / town changed its laws to damp things down a bit.


As someone who was 18-30 during Club 18-30's heyday, I'm fine with GameDaddy's analysis. Gagarth's hostility is as misplaced as it is unsurprising.

There was nothing wrong with the UKGE game's pitch. There was plenty wrong with its execution.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1091717Actual transaction, there is no argument to counter. If you think springing a rape scenario on players not expecting it or warned about it in advance and that the decision by the con organizer on someone that was known for 10 years has less weight than a very weak defense where the GM admits that he did not tell the players any of the supposed background for why they were as they were, then I cannot argue with a fool and will not even try.

Of course there is an argument. When did I say that it has less weight? I said that there might not actually have been a rape scenario. But maybe there was. (But no, I don't really put a lot more trust in the "literally shaking" twitter user, and the organizer who wasn't there. So there's that. Maybe the other gamer?)
But more importantly; either way IT IS JUST A GAME, and a game for adults in this case. You and others have probably murdered multiple people in your games without consequence in your campaigns. My character was once burnt alive. WTF is the big deal whenever someone uses the word RAEP! The gamers joined an 18+ game, that wasn't quite enough of a hint I guess, but the GM also shouldn't be thrown under the bus like this. The over-reaction is ridiculous and indicates that the organizers are eager to try to show themselves as "allies".

So I'll boil it down for you, since it seems to be a bit hard to get through your knuckle head: the argument is that it was a GAME specifically for ADULTS. Why does it make sense to treat the gamers as if they were actual victims of some grievous wrongdoing? What happened to rolling your eyes at the GM, going "seriously dude" and moving on?

Quote from: sureshot;1091713What gets me is how SJWs have twisted the meaning of entitlement imo. Before one person demanding everything and anything be done their way and only their way was the textbook definition of what entitlement was and is. Now to justify their entitlement it is the reverse. Anyone and everyone who refuses to cater to their desires is entitled. ....

That's a good observation.

Also, if you don't agree with the super-fragile and highly strung morons, then you yourself are "fragile" (as in "white male fragility").

Quote from: Trond;1091738That's a good observation.

Also, if you don't agree with the super-fragile and highly strung morons, then you yourself are "fragile" (as in "white male fragility").

Or a Nazi, Fascit, Alt-RIght (Reich) supporter. Who engages in white male emotional appropriation or so other equally stupid sounding bullshit.

Only in the fevered SJW dreams will most tables allow their respectives sessions grind to a comple halt. Either X-card gives an explanation for using it or they get asked to leave. Especially at home games.

Quote from: Trond;1091736So I'll boil it down for you, since it seems to be a bit hard to get through your knuckle head: the argument is that it was a GAME specifically for ADULTS. Why does it make sense to treat the gamers as if they were actual victims of some grievous wrongdoing? What happened to rolling your eyes at the GM, going "seriously dude" and moving on?

It's true that having tasteless shit in an RPG is not an actual crime - but conversely, kicking someone out of a convention also isn't like throwing someone in jail.

You're acting like there should have to be a criminal action and court conviction in order to do anything to the GM. What happened to just saying "Fuck off and move along" - and getting on with life? There have been a number of people banned from here on theRPGsite, for example, for thin reasons IMO. It's Pundit's forum and that's his call. I sometimes register my disagreement, but I don't get my panties in a twist over it.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1091695Exactly. We don't have first hand info, and are getting conflicting reports. I bet the con organizers are in the same boat. Thus I'd go with a warning. You seem quite ready to endorse banning someone on admittedly little info.

Even these days, not everything happens online. I suspect that plenty of people who might know something aren't online following the Twitter drama. So the organizers may well have better information than me.

Quote from: jhkim;1091757It's true that having tasteless shit in an RPG is not an actual crime - but conversely, kicking someone out of a convention also isn't like throwing someone in jail.

You're acting like there should have to be a criminal action and court conviction in order to do anything to the GM. What happened to just saying "Fuck off and move along" - and getting on with life? There have been a number of people banned from here on theRPGsite, for example, for thin reasons IMO. It's Pundit's forum and that's his call. I sometimes register my disagreement, but I don't get my panties in a twist over it.

There is a bit more to it than that. The "victims" have been offered assistance as if they are in deep distress (from both the organizers and random other people), people on twitter immediately went after the GM's personal info (who has been banned from life from the convention), and it even went on the BBC news. This is a GAME in which we regularly "KILL" each other, get eaten by soul-devouring monsters, get burned alive, or go to war. Part of the point is that we live (imaginary) lives on the edge. But that "r" word, maybe just hinted at for all we know, in a game where no kids were allowed, that is just too much. Despite the fact that such things have been used as a major motivator in movies like "Kill Bill" or "Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" or the Artesia comics etc etc etc. OK, it's icky, people should have been give a bit more of a hint, although it's really no worse than much of the stuff that often goes down in RPGs.

Does anyone see what I'm getting at here?

Quote from: jhkim;1091757Even these days, not everything happens online. I suspect that plenty of people who might know something aren't online following the Twitter drama. So the organizers may well have better information than me.

Considering the visibility this issue has gotten, and the necessity of responding in order to cover their asses legally, I think we would have heard if they had more info.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1091772Considering the visibility this issue has gotten, and the necessity of responding in order to cover their asses legally, I think we would have heard if they had more info.

Or we haven't heard any more info because, after the initial burst of visibility, sensible people realized it's just a pile of nothing and moved on.

I'd have gotten up and walked out.  OK, who am I kidding?  With that description, I'd have never been in the game in the first place.  So I've got no particular reason to defend the guy's behavior.  I think the larger point here is that when "SJW", "banned", and similar terms are in the conversation, the SJW no longer get any benefit of the doubt.  Nor should they.  (It's off-topic, but as we are having this conversation, anyone that bothers to look can see the same targeted "deplatform" pattern occurring in several much more serious cases.  It's almost as if things like this are a distraction from their banning of people for no reason at all other than not having the approved opinions.)

A few years OK, I'd have assumed that the GM was a jerk, everyone else was probably fairly reasonable, and he had it coming.  Might very well have been wrong, but that would have been my base, uninformed opinion.  Now?  I think there's a good chance he was a convenient target.  Still could be wrong.  But that's the underlying story--that the default position of reasonableness has moved.  Talk about your inadvertent Overton Window.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1091772Considering the visibility this issue has gotten, and the necessity of responding in order to cover their asses legally, I think we would have heard if they had more info.

In my limited experience, usually people stop posting online if there is potential legal action. Posts on Twitter rarely help a court case. Saying something quickly and wrong is more likely to get you in trouble than anything you do right. I'm not sure about that - but that's kind of my point. I wouldn't assume that I know everything there is to know compared to someone who is personally involved.

Conversely, I know that the few in-person cases of controversy within my gaming communities haven't been fully told online. (And I consider that a very good thing.)

Quote from: GameDaddy;1091707No one here said you had to be a therapist or to walk around on eggshells around asshats, so, ...not sure where that is coming from,

If GMs have to be "aware" of "triggers" their players may have (aka, their mental illness of the week) and then change everything going on in the room until the player in question is feeling "safe" again, we're definitely talking about telepathic therapists and those poor GMs lacking telepathy, get to walk around on eggshells not knowing which of the players at this session is a fucking Twitter asshat.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1091707It shouldn't be too difficult for you to manage to at least be civil to the players at your gaming table though, eh?

Be civil? The GM wasn't banned for his failure to be nice and polite to the players.

He was banned for the content of his Adults-Only game.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1091707Should I even care what they think about my games, ...and if so, why?

Because while you're prancing about on your high horse about this UKGE GM, you don't see how you could be next year's "problematic GM".

This GM didn't turn an all ages event into a rapefest. He didn't have explicit raping happening during his 18+ game, just the suggestion of what may had happened when the PCs were drugged and captured.

But maybe you will be caught encouraging an innocent con attendee to murder rooms full of black people. You would call that fictional fighting against imaginary orcs, but that's only your racism and privilege speaking once the asshat players get to Twitter.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1091707The new GM's have nothing to teach, because they create no original content, ...they only consume.

Organized Play has the advantage of the GM not getting in trouble if they just read the corporate text, roll their dice at the approved times and run the game as described by the goodthink game designers.

If an asshat runs to Twitter after a Pathfinder or 5e corporate event, the GM can just blame the text and the outrage mob can retarget the company instead.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1091707One GM can and does harm the hobby much more often than you think.

If the hobby is so pathetic, frightened and weak that one GM can harm the entire community, then the hobby deserves to die.

Any large enough gathering of humans is going to have some bad apples.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1091707I'll just have to content myself with staying as far away from them as possible, and privately enjoying my games with my group of friends who appreciate the virtues of a playing traditional fantasy and sci-fi roleplaying games.

THIS is exactly why there needs to be conventions that stand against this SJW bullshit.

Quote from: Trond;1091736Why does it make sense to treat the gamers as if they were actual victims of some grievous wrongdoing? What happened to rolling your eyes at the GM, going "seriously dude" and moving on?

Apparently, 18+ is the new code-word for "toddler".

But it should not be too surprising. Personal responsibility is antithetical to victimhood. In our age of social media and identity politics, the victims are the heroes.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091705I see no reason why a competing event with its own values can't be created, and succeed in drawing in its own audience.

Of course, starting a con isn't easy. There's plenty of work, but its not rocket science.

Because a totally sanitized locked down con where the majority of your attendants are delusional sociopaths is totally not a recipe for failure.

What games can you run that one of these nuts wont somehow object to. How much scrubbing is needed before a game can be approved? If ever? You have run off the people and games who were most likely a draw to a con. They went elsewhere and all you have is woke-con. Added bonus if you treat any white males attending like lower than dirt.

Quote from: Omega;1091807Because a totally sanitized locked down con where the majority of your attendants are delusional sociopaths is totally not a recipe for failure.

I agree. That's why a not-Woke Con is a good venture.

A con where the "Code of Conduct" explicitly states you handle your own shit like an adult. GMs would be encouraged to be explicit about their games so nobody can wank off about being tricked into an adult content game after signing up for an adult content game.

Most cons aren't big business ventures catering to tens of thousands. Most are regional events, lucky to have 1000 people show and almost entirely run by volunteers. As the culture war continues to segregate people, the SJWs will become more strident creating more people who will want to game away from them.  

As I've mentioned on this forum before, I highly recommend smaller cons over the large cons. You don't need Origins or GenCon to have a great time. A few hundred gamers in a small hotel venue can often be a much more enjoyable gaming gathering.

Quote from: CarlD.;1091724I didn't see there earlier mention and searching  this thread turned up nothing for whatever reason. This thread is 33 pages long for my settings so going through its post by post would mind numbing. So I asked for a brief definition

"They're obscenities" or the like would have sufficed, no encyclopedia entry length description required.  But given the current lack of response, I have to assume the point of them beyond what can be gathered from context isn't really that important to the points being discussed. *shrug*

Here you go

Quote from: Gagarth;1090845Here is the game listing

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3463[/ATTACH]

Before non-British lynch mob enablers like Jkhim comment do yourself a favour and educate yourself on Essex lad culture, club 18/30 holidays and Inbetweeners.  The dreadlocked fucking woke scumbug that started all this would damn well know what that would entail.    What happened at that con does not justify the mob justice that is going on. Given the climate we are in he was stupid to run that scenario not knowing who was going to turn up, but something needs to be done about the woke lynch mobs.

Another thing the player characters were all male.  In Film and TV dramas  anything were a male is concerned is permissible even rape or the threat  of rape on male character is played for laughs (e.g. Happy! S1E7) and parts of male genitalia  found at crime scenes are  joked about in prime time shows like Bones.  Even the BBC saw nothing wrong with  a scene in Happy Valleys were a middle-aged police woman drags a boy into the back of a car and punches him in the balls.


In the mean time here is a few of things that will probably trigger Jkhim.

[video]https://www.facebook.com/BestInbetweenersMoments/videos/1750183215220472/[/youtube]

[video=youtube_share;7sq2Xc1BiZk]https://youtu.be/7sq2Xc1BiZk[/youtube]

https://youtu.be/REZ9le2qFD8

[video=youtube;ln1m-PEfwUI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln1m-PEfwUI[/youtube]

I haven't chimed in but said GM is a complete douche.  That being said he deserves to be laughed and pointed at for being a no vagina getting neck beard but that's it.  This effort to ruin his life is too extreme.