I don't think further discussion really matters until we establish who is lying, because while the GM claims they never intended to imply rape, that's not what they're being accused of.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1091341I'm afraid you misunderstand the criticism here: it lends itself to abuse because the person using it is above scrutiny,

You mean like the GM?

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1091341This would be literally only possible if the derailment couldn't have been prevented by anything else but an x-card. I don't think you (or anyone) can demonstrate that to be true.

Prevented by a clear signal that the campaign has gone in a direction that causes suffering rather than merely offense or discomfort. And yeah, no way to prove how one really feels without a brain scan.

Quote from: Autumnborn;1091383Grim had a really good account of what an Xcard is like in play.

No they don't, because they've never actually seen it in play.

Quote from: Autumnborn;1091383Imagine you're at a movie theater, watching some new film. A scene starts and someone doesn't like it and is 'triggered'. They hit the X-button on the armrest, and the film skips the rest of the scene. Now picture multiple people being upset about different things and how much of the film all the people who don't object are being forced to miss.

You can walk out of a film, pause it on private viewing, and put down a book.

But the fact that disrupting a game affects others besides oneself is exactly why people tend to stick with things that stress them out when they shouldn't have to.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1091543You mean like the GM?

I have never met nor heard of a GM who was above scrutiny. I know, however, that victim blaming/shaming is a buzzword/hashtag ("We believe survivors"). And I know that the user of an x-card is above scrutiny in using it. It lends itself to abuse.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1091543Prevented by a clear signal that the campaign has gone in a direction that causes suffering rather than merely offense or discomfort. And yeah, no way to prove how one really feels without a brain scan.

So it could have been prevented instead by a player saying that they, for example, don't like this type of sexualized content and it's not what they've been signing up for?

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1091543But the fact that disrupting a game affects others besides oneself is exactly why people tend to stick with things that stress them out when they shouldn't have to.

Are they 18+? Yes? Welcome to being an adult.

For some people, especially those who grew up since the emergence of social media, it's their way of being an adult.

They go about their day, but then something/someone irritates them.

Instead of confronting the source of their irritation (in that case, speaking directly to the GM), they hurry to Twitter to whine about how someone has been mean to them. They do this in large part because they grew up in an overly protective environment, with helicopter parents ready to smooth over all discomfort affecting their little booboos.

On Twitter, they find some complacent listeners, many of them having grown up in the same environment. Those whiners then generate some anti-catharsis: they become angrier and angrier, desperate to find some emotional release ; and because their parents and educators have never taught them how to manage/get a grip on their feelings, they are caught in a spiral of reinforcing bad feeelings.

Soon enough they get utterly mad with rage. The one real thing that nurtures this rage is this gut-wrenching fear, simmering under the surface of their consciousness, that goes with the realization that they can't be at peace again with themselves, that they got no modicum of mastery over their emotional landscape. They are like terrified children... but alas it seems that today's adult voices can't be heard in the din of social media.

So, they project that fear and loathing to whoever/whatever triggered it in the first place. It matters not the real or perceived reason for their ire, nor the degree of the supposed transgression. That thing or person must be destroyed ! That person must symbolically die ![/b]

It can't atone ! It can't ever make things right ! It must be obliterated from society ! It's not even human - it's a Nazi, a monster disguised as human, the scum of the Earth !

RPG or basket knitting or whatever has got nothing to do with it. The Twitter mob is composed of deeply immature people masquerading as adults. But we as a society have not fully realized that yet.

We better change some things asap, lest the mobs soon demand blood in less symbolic ways. You think I'm exaggerating ? I've got three words for you: Salem witch trials. And another three words: Red Guard youths.

Quote from: jhkim;1091527I've seen complaints from two players:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1134606036663508997
https://twitter.com/GeekGirlBookWrm/status/1134503931932024832

Thanks. I am honestly surprised more did not speak up after. I would have at the table and after. This is NOT what I payed money to sit down and play.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1091543You can walk out of a film, pause it on private viewing, and put down a book.

But the fact that disrupting a game affects others besides oneself is exactly why people tend to stick with things that stress them out when they shouldn't have to.

This too. It is why I stuck with GMing a campaign after some players had pretty much ruined my enjoyment of it. I kept going out of politeness to the other players and because one of the problem players was suffering a severe medical problem. And they were VERY used to being really vulgar and offensive at a different group and actually were trying to tone it down for me. That helped alot in my decision to keep going. Especially when it could have been that players last campaign. All had fun.

But not disrupting others enjoyment, if you believe they still are, can also be a reson why someone wouldnt just walk.

Though my money is still on the money angle and you booked a time slot you usually cant get back without some effort or hassle.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1091394Just so everyone here understands, there is a  "safe space" clause at most conventions that prohibits anyone from running a game that may be construed as criminal.
.

What  exactly was criminal in any version of events. You seemed to in the same blinkered La La Land as the outrage mob are you one of them?

Quote from: jhkim;1091527https://twitter.com/GeekGirlBookWrm/status/1134503931932024832

This is the person that kicked it off so nothing new there.

Quote from: jhkim;1091527https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1134606036663508997

This one has his pronouns listed on his twitter which speaks speaks volumes.   I also noted that he has backed the Alien rpg no doubt he will go whining too twitter the first time a  facehugger tries to shoves it's proboscis down his throat.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1091530The douchebag that was banned for life at UKGE completely failed at this. Not only did he not talk upfront about potential traumatic content included in his games, only springing this on the players once the game began. He also deliberately omitted any mention of it during pregame registration which went against two separate convention policies, the "safe space" policy for gamers, as well as the convention policy which required the GM provide information about the nature of the game, describing this as horror was simply deceptive. I'll say it once more, even James Desborough acknowledged this failure, however went on to argue that dude shouldn't have been banned, even though he was in clear violation of two convention policies.

I know there are some folk here that enjoy "edgy" and "angst ridden" games. Do the majority of us a favor, and run your game in your hotel suite, or just stay home and run the game for your friends. I'm going to let you know right now, such games aren't going to be welcome in the gaming conventions I attend, especially if you being deceptive about your game content, and immoral or ammoral goals. Games are about recreation, and recreation is not about hurting or harming people, or testing your gamers morals, or their capacity to withstand pain or suffering, or anything else like that. If you think gaming is about that, I have some folks who would be very interested in testing your morals, proclivity for debasement, and unlawful conduct.

You fucktards that want to fantasize about your rape scenarios with strangers, stay the hell away from my gaming tables.

You are the fucktard you obviously no nothing about Essex lad culture nor 18/30 holidays  which anyone in the UK including the two whinners would have  know about.  It was signalled in the game description so do some research before you post pantywaist drivel like this. The Gm's only sin was not being aware or stupidly ignoring that assholes are out to make drama  for political reasons he should never of run that scenario unless he knew everyone of the people who had signed up. He is not guilty of trying to traumatise anyone with a child rape experience and he is not guilty off not flagging  the content.

Ok, so, a couple of facts here.
The Hilton is only a few hundred yards (took me 5 mins to walk) from the NEC, not a mile. All the role-playing goes on in the Hilton, so if you're interested in that, that's where you would go. That said, the roleplaying games are set up in their own rooms, and public viewing is not encouraged. So the chance of a passing family accidentally eavesdropping on the game was pretty much nil.

Why the people at the table didn't immediately complain? I don't know, but it could have been that the "process" the con had in place was that complaints about a GM should go to the "Room Captain", an experienced GM who is the first port of call for complaints. Guess who the "room captain" was? That's right, the idiot that caused this in the first place.

End of facts, now the speculation:

Maybe the players didn't complain at the time because they didn't feel like complaining was going to get them very far - after all the person they were supposed to complain to was the cause of the problem!

Having compared the information I've received from both sides, it's pretty obvious that this was a deliberate act that went completely against con policy and was sprung on a bunch of unsuspecting players. He knew exactly what he was doing and did it for his own amusement/education/whatever. It had nothing to do with providing a fun/interesting/unusual game for the players. So, he should and did get ejected from the con and never invited back. As to whether other cons ban him, that's up to them, but I won't be playing at any of his games.

And more than that, he's fecked it up for the rest of us GMs. Now we'll have to specify all sorts of stuff in our game outlines that wasn't needed before. Other cons I'm going to are now enforcing a PG13 limit on tables in the main room. But for some cons there's only 1 room so that means that ALL mature games must now be run in the chalets, not the main area. Pretty much all my non D&D games are labelled "mature themes 16+" Sometimes I used to put that label on my games just because I didn't want anyone younger than that playing, not because I actually had any particularly mature themes in the game. Can't do that now. Thanks, you doofus.

Previously, I thought X-cards and that sort of thing to be pretty useless, but if you wanted that sort of thing then more power to you. Not something that I'd ever use though. What's the betting they'll become mandatory and I'll be forced to have them at my table. Again, thanks, mate - way to go.

That's pretty much it from me on this subject. To quote an ancient comedian, I hope his rabbits die and he can't sell the hutches.

Couple of thoughts; yup, I think this GM should have been clearer about what people might expect, as in "warning: adult content, extreme violence" or some such.

Having said that; IT IS STILL JUST A GAME. Nobody actually got raped. Not even any pictures of rape were shown. We have probably seen similar/worse things in movies, and only yesterday I happened to click on a Youtube video that suddenly showed actual dismembered bodies. People should stop pretending that the gamers have suffered any real sort of damage.

Have you seen the Twitter thread about this? It is like SJW parody. The OP is shaking. People are offering moral support. Jessica Price jumped in with her eternal wisdom about abuse. Some of them is already attacking the organizers for being "extremely negligent". Someone is posting kitten photos to dampen their "berserker rage".

Here is a good target for your x-card.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3499[/ATTACH]

QuoteAnd more than that, he's fecked it up for the rest of us GMs. Now we'll have to specify all sorts of stuff in our game outlines that wasn't needed before. Other cons I'm going to are now enforcing a PG13 limit on tables in the main room. But for some cons there's only 1 room so that means that ALL mature games must now be run in the chalets, not the main area. Pretty much all my non D&D games are labelled "mature themes 16+" Sometimes I used to put that label on my games just because I didn't want anyone younger than that playing, not because I actually had any particularly mature themes in the game. Can't do that now. Thanks, you doofus.

Previously, I thought X-cards and that sort of thing to be pretty useless, but if you wanted that sort of thing then more power to you. Not something that I'd ever use though. What's the betting they'll become mandatory and I'll be forced to have them at my table. Again, thanks, mate - way to go.

Yeah... this. My local con is Breakout, which is like the living epitome of the Woke RPG Convention. X cards are mandatory on all RPG games, and there's an array of other 'safety tools' GMs are 'encouraged' to use (for that read: 'If you don't use them, you're clearly a member of the Patriarchy, and most likely a fucking Nazi). So as well as handling a table full of complete strangers, the story, the game mechanics, and a finite timeslot, you now have to factor in how at least one of these safety mechanisms works, and be prepared for it to be potentially used by someone feeling triggered and confused, but under no obligation to explain why. Running a game is turning from being an enjoyable activity into a minefield of social awareness and dancing across hot coals. So I don't go to my local con.

Following this debacle, courtesy of a prick GM, it'll get worse - not better.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1091543I don't think further discussion really matters until we establish who is lying, because while the GM claims they never intended to imply rape, that's not what they're being accused of.



You mean like the GM?



Prevented by a clear signal that the campaign has gone in a direction that causes suffering rather than merely offense or discomfort. And yeah, no way to prove how one really feels without a brain scan.



No they don't, because they've never actually seen it in play.



You can walk out of a film, pause it on private viewing, and put down a book.

But the fact that disrupting a game affects others besides oneself is exactly why people tend to stick with things that stress them out when they shouldn't have to.

"They"? Both Grim Jim and this GM are men.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1091530The douchebag that was banned for life at UKGE completely failed at this. Not only did he not talk upfront about potential traumatic content included in his games, only springing this on the players once the game began. He also deliberately omitted any mention of it during pregame registration which went against two separate convention policies, the "safe space" policy for gamers, as well as the convention policy which required the GM provide information about the nature of the game, describing this as horror was simply deceptive. I'll say it once more, even James Desborough acknowledged this failure, however went on to argue that dude shouldn't have been banned, even though he was in clear violation of two convention policies.

I know there are some folk here that enjoy "edgy" and "angst ridden" games. Do the majority of us a favor, and run your game in your hotel suite, or just stay home and run the game for your friends. I'm going to let you know right now, such games aren't going to be welcome in the gaming conventions I attend, especially if you being deceptive about your game content, and immoral or ammoral goals. Games are about recreation, and recreation is not about hurting or harming people, or testing your gamers morals, or their capacity to withstand pain or suffering, or anything else like that. If you think gaming is about that, I have some folks who would be very interested in testing your morals, proclivity for debasement, and unlawful conduct.

You fucktards that want to fantasize about your rape scenarios with strangers, stay the hell away from my gaming tables.

So.....did you hear that the game may not have contained any rape? What's with all the judging based one hearsay?

Quote from: Trond;1091594So.....did you hear that the game may not have contained any rape? What's with all the judging based one hearsay?

Based on the one interview done via text? As opposed to two players saying he specifically said there was rape and the responsible person who kicked him out at UKGE who knew him for a decade and actually talked to the GM before making a decision?

No one claims that rape was described as it was happening, but the players say the GM said the characters were raped and then tossed out into the street naked and hunted down.

Best case, as the GM said in the interview that he just said they had sore bums, was that he completely blew it and inadvertently implied rape but never meant to.

Other than the one interview, is there someone else claiming the players were wrong?