Quote from: sureshot;1089521This I will disgree with. Yes in terms of replacing a damaged book or other book related order issues their customer service is one of the best. Anything else they are getting a reputation for being tone deaf imo/ They truly don't like any negative criticism or pushback from the fanbase.

I think your criticism is pretty insightful and accurate but I have had some time to think about it. Years ago, I had some business discussions with Paizo, and met the owners and some key decision makers. At that time, the very top was very professional and business minded, but the 'second tier' folks that directly managed product lines were still kind of learning their roles so to speak (sort of like 'leads' that were promoted into management). A lot of time has passed since then, but even in that time, I saw some growth and awareness at that second tier. My assumption is that since those tiers do not change much, that they are making decisions more based on the business rather than anything.

The farther along production is, the most costly the changes. Once product is manufactured (and compounded by logistical costs), there's no fixing it. Most American companies will go ahead and sell through stuff that has flaws, so long as in their judgement it isn't something that will spark huge numbers of returns or enough business impacting outrage. Current finances also mean more depending on if you are hurting or not.

I think a certain downside to a business that serves hobbyists is that hobbyists go into the business without any business knowledge, and how well they do is a factor on how quickly they can become business people that also make good business choices. That's got to be hard too in an industry that doesn't generate voluminous profits like some others.

Again I do not hate them it's just that they seem tone deaf to much needed feedback.

The issues with the gun rules could have been avoided and they knew about it. Yet they choose to put them to print. I know many people one even a close family member who a great people yet seem to want to hear more what they want to hear and less what they need to hear. They are not truly bad people and they did help 3.5. but they also seem to have made a mistake with jumping on the Woke bandwagon.

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1089516Actually - overall the demand for paper has been going up pretty steadily. Not just for paper - but for cardboard etc. (all those Amazon boxes?) Especially when you consider worldwide demand.

In addition, environmental rules have made harvesting trees somewhat more expensive.

Agree on the environmental rulings. As to global demand, I've been out of contact with the industry long enough that my knowledge is easily out of date.

Quote from: Lynn;1088441I think they actually do realize it (at least, the really business savvy ones), but it doesn't take that many determined morons to massively increase your costs. Putting out fires is time consuming and therefore costly.

All indicators are that they do not realize it. At all. For some insane reason marketing tends to get on a single "BELIEF!" track and ride fanaically it no matter how horribly it fails.
"The Five Year Plan will force customers to keep rebuying the game because they are stupid cattle!"
"Catering to the SJWs will garner us MASSIVE sales!"
"Fans are bad. They think bad things like having, gasp, expectations! We have to get rid of them!"
"We need to get more minorities to play! So lets just drop them into everything willy nilly. Better yet lets replace established characters with them. They are too dumb to be insulted by this anyhow!"
"If you tell the customers its a "hobby game" or better yet, prestige! Then they will pay ten times the normal price because they are stupid cattle!

And so on ad nausium. And then they stupidly wonder why their sales are plummeting. Golly, ya think?

But the overarching marketing belief is that the customers are cattle that will willingly be led to slaughter. And looking at how some gamers act. They are not wrong.

Quote from: Omega;1089552But the overarching marketing belief is that the customers are cattle that will willingly be led to slaughter. And looking at how some gamers act. They are not wrong.

That poison is infecting Kickstarter badly. In the past year, I've seen a dozen big KS where the pledge price + shipping was more than you'd pay if you just bought it at the gamestore and the KS offered utterly meh bonuses and instead offered "add ons" you could purchase. I've been stunned to see these KS go over $100k or much more for no real value to the backers.

Once you have an audience who can be milked, they might diminish over time, but you can milk them hard on the ride down.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1089559That poison is infecting Kickstarter badly. In the past year, I've seen a dozen big KS where the pledge price + shipping was more than you'd pay if you just bought it at the gamestore and the KS offered utterly meh bonuses and instead offered "add ons" you could purchase. I've been stunned to see these KS go over $100k or much more for no real value to the backers.

That's been true for quite a few years. I haven't backed a Kickstarter in a long time.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1089559That poison is infecting Kickstarter badly. In the past year, I've seen a dozen big KS where the pledge price + shipping was more than you'd pay if you just bought it at the gamestore and the KS offered utterly meh bonuses and instead offered "add ons" you could purchase. I've been stunned to see these KS go over $100k or much more for no real value to the backers.

Why do people pay exorbitant prices to go and listen to their favourite band live when they could listen to the same songs at home for a cheaper price?

I know, I am stunned as well.

Quote from: Shasarak;1089566Why do people pay exorbitant prices to go and listen to their favourite band live when they could listen to the same songs at home for a cheaper price?

I know, I am stunned as well.

It was a significant shift in the culture of Kickstarter. It became much less about individual creators trying to catch some buzz, and started being a preorder system for established publishers.

And Kickstarter doesn't have have the ambiance of a live concert.

Quote from: Pat;1089568And Kickstarter doesn't have have the ambiance of a live concert.

Do you mean that there may be reasons other then price that people use to make their decisions?

Now I am shocked and stunned!

Quote from: Shasarak;1089569Do you mean that there may be reasons other then price that people use to make their decisions?

Now I am shocked and stunned!

Is that an attempt at sarcasm? If it is, it's pretty off-point.

Quote from: Shasarak;1089566Why do people pay exorbitant prices to go and listen to their favourite band live when they could listen to the same songs at home for a cheaper price?

How attending a live concert related to buying a game off KS for more money than your FLGS?

If KS offered some communal experience of the game itself, then I'd see the relationship. On KS, your only communal experience is during the purchase and the wait for shipping via the comment section. It's unfortunate because I think there's value in the KS community continuing post-launch but I've rarely seen that happen.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1089572How attending a live concert related to buying a game off KS for more money than your FLGS?

If KS offered some communal experience of the game itself, then I'd see the relationship. On KS, your only communal experience is during the purchase and the wait for shipping via the comment section. It's unfortunate because I think there's value in the KS community continuing post-launch but I've rarely seen that happen.

I have seen some KS RPGs use their backers as a beta test, which for some people is a substantial bonus.

Quote from: Shasarak;1089566Why do people pay exorbitant prices to go and listen to their favourite band live when they could listen to the same songs at home for a cheaper price?

I know, I am stunned as well.

In the case of kickstarter, it would be like giving money to a dude organizing a concert, and watching the concert crash and burn in the planning stage, nothing gets produced, and the person doesn't get to listen to any music at all.

I'm not even against the idea of kickstarter, but goddamn, there's a reason it's got a rep as a place where terrible projects go to burn up other people's money on their way to failure.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1089577In the case of kickstarter, it would be like giving money to a dude organizing a concert, and watching the concert crash and burn in the planning stage, nothing gets produced, and the person doesn't get to listen to any music at all.

I'm not even against the idea of kickstarter, but goddamn, there's a reason it's got a rep as a place where terrible projects go to burn up other people's money on their way to failure.

Oh definitely, ever since I got kinda burned (Star Citizen is still coming... right!?) I only back projects whose creators have a substantial track record of delivering and/or looks to be at least 80-85% done, including some investment (artwork etc.).

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1089577I'm not even against the idea of kickstarter, but goddamn, there's a reason it's got a rep as a place where terrible projects go to burn up other people's money on their way to failure.

1. make product
2. sell product

There's a reason we do it in that order.