Quote from: Dr. Benton Quest;1083467Given a long enough timeline, everyone will eventually get banned from TBP.

I dare to hope.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1083428Fine, we'll start with you first...

Here is a screenshot of a post over on DF showing what you actually think of the original TSR folks...

I must admit that I have heard a few bad things re: Dragonsfoot and added to the fact that they go around banning TSR folks, well it just gives me a poor impression of the site.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1083466I have to say; as much as it bothers me that SJG is getting flak over this at all, I am at this moment receiving a sick sort of satisfaction from watching TBP work itself into one of its trademark froths over this and devour any comment even remotely perpendicular to their bizarre, goosestepping brand of groupthink.

Seconded the pearl clutching and "never buying from them again EVER!!!" is hilarious and embarrassing as a gamer to watch.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1083466You'd practically think Steve himself had come over to their houses and assaulted them personally.

We all suffer from entitlement imo they take it so much further over at rpg Candyland. So many of them think outside of their echo chamber that they can go to someone home and start spouting off "D&D promotes colonialism and racism and not be tossed from most sane gamers home. Or the suddenly woke because it's cool players are going to waltz up to a DMs home whistling the theme from the Andy Griffth show and take away said DMs game and table and make it woke. That company XYZ is going to cater to them. Mentally ill and brought up the wrong way by their parentsimo. Too much patting on the head and not enough of the five finger discount off the side of the had.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1083466Oh well. I suppose that means more GURPS/TFT/DF fans can look forward to finding some fresh print material at the bookstore. That is, assuming anyone in that thread has actually purchased material from SJG, or would have otherwise; the number of comments that are quite literally "That's really unfortunate. Up to today I had a lot invested in SJG emotionally" are staggering already (and they also hit my funny bone pretty hard).

Either way unlike many other rpg companies SJGames does not have all their eggs in one basket. Gurps and its derivatives were no longer their main source of income. So unless the boycott does major financial damage SJGames probably will not cave to the woke mob. Funny how the usually fully woke members of the board are never to be seen or comment when this kind of bullshit happens. Almost like they are afraid to be out of the cool fully woke kids club. To me their silence speaks vilumes.

Quote from: Shasarak;1083478I must admit that I have heard a few bad things re: Dragonsfoot and added to the fact that they go around banning TSR folks, well it just gives me a poor impression of the site.

Mine as well don't bite the hand that feed you and gave the basis for the site. Even if one can term the behavior of some of the old TSR guard as.. special.

Quote from: EOTB;1083454I think the TSR crew were horribad businessmen who are so horribad they still don't understand where they fucked up;

and also that deep immersion roleplay is not generally desired by most people who could be prospects for a different type of D&D experience.  

1: I think Gary and some others were fairly good businessmen. BUT they had abserdly bad luck and ended up partnering with people who were not just horrible but in at least one case, criminal. The Blumes. Williams, WOTC even and thats just for D&D. Outside D&D several, Gary in particular just kept having bad luck with partners. And this isnt limited to TSR or RPGs. It has happened to other companies over the decades. GOO, Paladium, a couple of midrange and several small indies.

2: For fuck sake I got sick long long ago with these "deep immersion" fanatics. Wanting to get immersed in the gameplay is fine. But there is this faction that keeps trying to take it too far. Seen it in RPGs and especially LARPs. Seen it myself a few times when was working with BDP. Some storygamers practially demand it to the point they want the game part removed totally.

Quote from: Omega;10834871: I think Gary and some others were fairly good businessmen. BUT they had abserdly bad luck and ended up partnering with people who were not just horrible but in at least one case, criminal. The Blumes. Williams, WOTC even and thats just for D&D. Outside D&D several, Gary in particular just kept having bad luck with partners. And this isnt limited to TSR or RPGs. It has happened to other companies over the decades. GOO, Paladium, a couple of midrange and several small indies.

Yeah, the context of that screenshot that was missing, is my comment was in response to late TSR alumni touting how the company had the highest revenue ever right before it tanked.  And I'm not going to get into that argument/thread jack; it was a comment about a small window of TSR's operation.  But I agree with what you're saying.

Quote from: Spike;1083247Also the Imgur link is broken, so I can't read the actual complaint referenced, thus the somewhat elliptical talking around the content of the complaint makes the entire read almost (but not quite) a pointless waste of time, and inadvertantly makes the entire thing about three times longer than it needs to be.

The reason the link is missing is supposedly because the 'victim' requested it be removed. Sadly I caught this after the fact so this is the best record we have.

Quote from: JRT;1083248Frog God has had successful Kickstarters since the quoted incident, so it doesn't appear to be affecting their bottom line at all

Yeah, funny that.

Quote from: Lurtch;1083250Because it's blowing up on the Fantasy Trip KS page by Christopher Helton and Ettin.

Imagine my shock.

Quote from: wmarshal;1083279In a relatively short period of time Stacy has launched diatribes against:

• Evil Hat Games
• Frog God Games
• Tenkar's Tavern
• Lamentations of the Flame Princess
• The Diana Jones Award
• Gary Con
• Bundle of Holding
• Steve Jackson Games

Have I missed any? I suspect the larger gaming community is concluding it's better to stay away from the zealotry she leads at Contessa. The zealots will always find fault with anyone they cast their eye upon, because the zealot can never find anyone perfect. Sooner or later she'll find a fault, and due to any past association with with the fallen she'll try to launch a crusade to make up for the past association with the now "unclean" offender. Better to keep Contessa at a distance.

At the rate they're alienating everyone I don't think we'll need to worry about keeping them at a distance for very long, as they're doing a damn fine job of it themselves.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1083376The term Social Justice Warrior is not perjurative,

Yes it is.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1083439Well, TBP has picked it up. With the same result thus far that you would expect.

https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/sjg-offering-partial-refunds-and-continuing-to-work-with-bill-webb.844606/

And sure enough, the first #Tweet in that post is from one of the two women Bill's supposed victim called 'traumatizing'.

Or rather I have good reason to believe so, and it must be true because she hasn't denied it.

I haven't had issues at Dragonsfoot. Instead, I've had some good discussions with various OSR designers over the years. I'm a Carcosa fan and Geoffrey the author posts over there pretty regularly. Way back when, there were pissing matches with TSR Revivalists vs. the OSR faction who wants to focus on new creations, but those arguments are probably a decade dead now.  

But DF in my experience is very non-political and wants focus on the thread/forum topic. And that's a good thing.

Overall, I've been good with the moderators. However, I do think TSR veterans deserved more slack for the basic reason that DF couldn't have existed without them.

If you like OSR stuff, DF is worth lurking at least. Especially the old interview threads with TSR folk.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1083339the 0D&D 74 Proboards (Whom have actually banned me, because I like talking about Early Judges Guild and RPGs and my actual experiences in running and playing these games don't line up with what they wanted my experiences to be). I'm not going to say what they want, I'm going to continue to speak of actually what happened, and what occurred, and who was involved in the early days of RPG gaming. Dave Arneson himself, in our meeting requested that I continue to do what I do, even after he is gone, to ensure that people would remember him and his significant contributions to RPG gaming and especially the development and release of D&D.

PLEASE start 2 threads.
First thread, let's talk about Early Judges Guild. Very interested in your thoughts and experiences.
Second thread, let's talk Dave Arneson. I'm a big fan of his ideas.
Feel free to cut and paste from stuff you've posted at Murkhill or Proboards.

Quote from: S'mon;1083350Well if you have to ask... To give you some idea, our BedrockBrendan is regarded as an extreme right winger and possible racist/sexist/fascist over there... So you guys might want to stay away.

Holy shit. BB is a good dude.

Wow....glad I bailed on ENW years ago.

Quote from: S'mon;1083425We're all Russian bots funded by Putin to Dehumanise his enemies by calling them NPCs.

Gotta loves those sweet rubles rolling in every month!

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1083449They've got their Dogma, and it's sufficient for them. I suspect they're attracted to the dogma in the first place because thinking (really thinking) is hard, and their dogmatic faith shields them somewhat from the troubling uncertainties of the contemporary world.

I used to think religion could be replaced with reason and secular thought, but I was VERY wrong. Instead, most of those who reject religion simply go make another religion with even MORE of the troublesome issues caused by blind faith.

The screeching REEEEE of the SJW is ululating of a jihadi. It's bizarre how radical fundamentalism is the default for a mass of humanity.

so wait, is sexual harassment okay now or something? I'm gonna keep buying GURPS stuff regardless, but as far as I know the guy from FGG sexually harassed someone, and boycotting them and people who work with them isn't necessarily a bad thing to do.

Quote from: asron819;1083510so wait, is sexual harassment okay now or something? I'm gonna keep buying GURPS stuff regardless, but as far as I know the guy from FGG sexually harassed someone, and boycotting them and people who work with them isn't necessarily a bad thing to do.

Do you think we should take the victims wishes into account or should we just be offended on their behalf despite what they want?

Quote from: Shasarak;1083512Do you think we should take the victims wishes into account or should we just be offended on their behalf despite what they want?

I'm not offended on their behalf, but I don't get why anyone here is offended on behalf of the victimizer and the people working with them. If someone decides not to buy from someone else because of their actions, and extend that to anyone who works with them, that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Quote from: asron819;1083514I'm not offended on their behalf, but I don't get why anyone here is offended on behalf of the victimizer and the people working with them. If someone decides not to buy from someone else because of their actions, and extend that to anyone who works with them, that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Except that it is not a "reasonable" thing to do.  The reasonable thing would be to have the humility to accept that you dont know what happened and that the people who do know what happened consider the matter closed.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

https://www.froggodgames.com/library/?q=forum/response-frog-god-games-events-social-media

While we don't know the exact details, we know it happened. and the matter being closed doesn't mean anyone has to buy their stuff. I think it's ridiculous to say it's unreasonable to not want to support a company based on the actions of someone in charge of that company. Nobody needs a reason not to buy a product in the first place, but that's a pretty good reason if you think you do need one.

Quote from: asron819;1083510so wait, is sexual harassment okay now or something? I'm gonna keep buying GURPS stuff regardless, but as far as I know the guy from FGG sexually harassed someone, and boycotting them and people who work with them isn't necessarily a bad thing to do.

He drunkenly hit on a woman at a convention. It wasn't good behaviour but it wasn't Harvey Weinstein either. Appropriate sanction would be barring him from the con, not destroying his  livelihood.

Quote from: asron819;1083517and the matter being closed doesn't mean anyone has to buy their stuff.

Nobody has to do anything. Some people will choose to boycott products based on whatever judgement they make on the subject, while others won't care and will still buy any products they think are good.

Again, nobody is forced to do anything. What is happening is a concerted campaign to create such a forced boycott, and that is dangerous. Down that road lies darkness.

Quote from: asron819;1083517I think it's ridiculous to say it's unreasonable to not want to support a company based on the actions of someone in charge of that company. Nobody needs a reason not to buy a product in the first place, but that's a pretty good reason if you think you do need one.

Sure, except when people start trying to take that decision away from each individual and turn it into a massive, and I know this is cliché, witch hunt. Judge the matter individually, make your decision individually, but don't try to force that decision on others by trying to shame them into acting the way you want them to act or, even worse, trying to force the industry to make that choice for us.