Quote from: Trond;1085739From Stacy:
"He wants you to think this is about behavior he *didn't* do, but it's not about that at all. This is strictly, 110% about things he's already said he did."
Which was.....? I can't believe how much of this shit I have read now, and it's STILL not clear what this egregious action actually was.

Narrator: It was being suspected of not voting for Hillary.

Quote from: shoplifter;1085771https://froggodgames.com/frogs/joint-statement-of-bj-hensley-and-frog-god-games/?fbclid=IwAR2xl73p4vKPnRjGDZpmlw-bmbqNzCHdDq74ZxRx2V3_QLYwROztbDb1tm0




This will still not satisfy the mob.

No, though for the purposes of litigation will make it VERY clear that the actions of Helton, Dellorfano and Price do not represent the woman who was the actual 'victim' of all this.  They can't pretend to be acting on her wishes or desire for protection.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1086256I dunno. They banned an awful lot of people who even slightly questioned the notion that SJG and FGG had to be destroyed, on those threads.

Oh I'm sure I'll be banned because of "upon review of your post history" very soon. Good. Further cathartic validation.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1086258Yeah. You know how much rpg.net hates me? Not only did they refuse to publish reviews of Lion & Dragon that people have submitted but they actually erased RPG reviews for Dark Albion and Arrows of Indra that used to be there!

LOL. How fucking embarrassing and twisted. Not even on remotely the same scale because I don't produce actual products, but I wonder if my players should boycott the games I run for them because we're not 100% politically aligned too? Sad that good games can't reach certain people because you've been accused of wrongthink and your (quality) products and writing are banned by association.

If I refused to look at or promote any film produced by someone I disagreed with morally or politically or people who had been convicted of actual crimes I would be watching WAY fewer films. I get why people think that way but it's ridiculous. If you are going to damn creative works by the people who create them unilaterally then I can only think you are a fucking idiot. Whether you give them money or not is a different issue and I think you should feel free to "vote with your wallet" because that is your personal choice. But entirely censoring products based on a difference of ideologies with their creators is fucking insane.

Quote from: Lurtch;1086238I still don't believe her that Bill Webb did anything serious. It's why she doesn't get specific.

I thought it was pretty clear. Sloppy, drunken, unwanted, awkwardly prolonged hug, calling her "sweet heart", offering room key in smokes, possibly following her around the convention or just running into each other a lot.  Really, in the climate of fear and loathing that exists, a man can be creepy without even trying or being aware of it.  Most guys can tell a story or two about moments when they realized they were scaring a woman that they had no interest in at all.  Little things like speeding up to pass a woman on the sidewalk and she speeds up and checks her six and you think, oh, huh, whatever.  But to her you're that guy that tried to grab her from behind on the sidewalk.  The world is a strange place sometimes.

Quote from: David Johansen;1086264I thought it was pretty clear. Sloppy, drunken, unwanted, awkwardly prolonged hug, calling her "sweet heart", offering room key in smokes, possibly following her around the convention or just running into each other a lot.  Really, in the climate of fear and loathing that exists, a man can be creepy without even trying or being aware of it.  Most guys can tell a story or two about moments when they realized they were scaring a woman that they had no interest in at all.  Little things like speeding up to pass a woman on the sidewalk and she speeds up and checks her six and you think, oh, huh, whatever.  But to her you're that guy that tried to grab her from behind on the sidewalk.  The world is a strange place sometimes.

You infer a whole lot that's not supported by statements of those actually involved.

Quote from: kythri;1086267You infer a whole lot that's not supported by statements of those actually involved.

He literally admitted he put his arm around her and called her sweetie. Which would get a lot of people fired from their jobs in this climate. (If you've ever been forced to sit through a lecture on harassment, you'd know this)

I think a lot of people are defending Webb just because he's hated by the right people. Just because Webb is a drunken creeper doesn't mean his business should be boycotted, nor should any business that does business with his. But that doesn't mean he has to be white knighted and his honor defended. A creepy drunk is still a creepy drunk, no matter who hates him.

Quote from: JeremyR;1086268He literally admitted he put his arm around her and called her sweetie. Which would get a lot of people fired from their jobs in this climate. (If you've ever been forced to sit through a lecture on harassment, you'd know this)

I think a lot of people are defending Webb just because he's hated by the right people. Just because Webb is a drunken creeper doesn't mean his business should be boycotted, nor should any business that does business with his. But that doesn't mean he has to be white knighted and his honor defended. A creepy drunk is still a creepy drunk, no matter who hates him.

He's not a drunken creeper. Stop lying. You're such a fucking gnat. If he was a drunken creeper we'd have tale after tale him behaving badly. We don't. We have one event, two years ago, that wouldn't get somebody fired but would make them apologize. He didn't harass anybody. He didn't assault anyone. He made someone feel uncomfortable and adults apologize when they do that.

People like you lying about him is why he should sue.

Quote from: David Johansen;1086264I thought it was pretty clear. Sloppy, drunken, unwanted, awkwardly prolonged hug, calling her "sweet heart", offering room key in smokes, possibly following her around the convention or just running into each other a lot.  Really, in the climate of fear and loathing that exists, a man can be creepy without even trying or being aware of it.  Most guys can tell a story or two about moments when they realized they were scaring a woman that they had no interest in at all.  Little things like speeding up to pass a woman on the sidewalk and she speeds up and checks her six and you think, oh, huh, whatever.  But to her you're that guy that tried to grab her from behind on the sidewalk.  The world is a strange place sometimes.

He never offered her his room key. Stop lying and implying.

Quote from: David Johansen;1086264offering room key in smokes,

His wife and children were at the convention.
https://froggodgames.com/frogs/statement-by-bill-webb/?fbclid=IwAR2SnzK2mmpX5HgZnm8r3vVik-Azjh47kw6NBE3BLOGTgrK9pk-3TO393X4

What the hell was he "planning"? A family gang bang?

Quotepossibly following her around the convention.

"Possibly". *rolleyes* This is the whole problem, people making shit up to fortify their narrative.

Quote from: JeremyR;1086268He literally admitted he put his arm around her and called her sweetie. Which would get a lot of people fired from their jobs in this climate. (If you've ever been forced to sit through a lecture on harassment, you'd know this)

I sat on the equity committee for a number of years at the last institution I worked at, and helped craft our specific harassment rules*, though I admittedly was never on the enforcement end.  From what I know from that, I can't imagine anyone getting fired over what he's admitted to doing, unless it was an ongoing problem.  It'd end up as a note on his employment file and he'd need to go through training - probably a couple of hours somewhere.  If it was a reoccurring issue would be when the possibility of firing would come up.  Getting escorted out of the place and being tossed from the convention at the specific point that this happened is, of course, completely reasonable.

Now, it's certainly possible that he did a bit more than he actually admitted too, and also very likely that he intended something to be lighthearted and humorous, and it wasn't received that way.  Regardless, if his narrative was too far off of the facts, I feel fairly confident we would have heard about it by now.

* As a Title IX institution, we really don't have a whole lot of choice on the bigger points, of course.

Quote from: JeremyR;1086268He literally admitted he put his arm around her and called her sweetie.

That statement is a fucking world away from this one:

Quote from: David Johansen;1086264I thought it was pretty clear. Sloppy, drunken, unwanted, awkwardly prolonged hug, calling her "sweet heart", offering room key in smokes, possibly following her around the convention or just running into each other a lot.

See the difference?  Assholes making shit up is how this shit escalates out of control.  David "I thought it was pretty clear" Johansen is either a lying piece of shit, or just a fucking moron.

Quote from: JeremyR;1086268I think a lot of people are defending Webb just because he's hated by the right people. Just because Webb is a drunken creeper doesn't mean his business should be boycotted, nor should any business that does business with his. But that doesn't mean he has to be white knighted and his honor defended. A creepy drunk is still a creepy drunk, no matter who hates him.

I'm not defending Webb.  If anything, I'm calling out bullshit embellishment, something that has conflated into "he spiked her drink" in some circles.  It's further compounded by outright invention, in the case of that shitbag Robert Brookes claiming violent assault that never happened.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1086279His wife and children were at the convention.

This certainly supports his contention that his intention was fine here, though of course she could still interpret his actions differently.  If he learns not to pass his key off in the future, just to be certain the act isn't misinterpreted, that seems reasonable to me.

I'll confess that my first thought here was: Does anyone ever actually hand off a room key as a proposition?  I always thought that was just a thing in the movies, and of course only a thing back when people had actual keys with little room numbers on them.  The whole gesture makes less sense with a swipe-card that has no indication of the room on it.  Maybe it happens all the time, and I'm just jealous it never happened to me, or something.

Quote from: RMS;1086284I'll confess that my first thought here was: Does anyone ever actually hand off a room key as a proposition?  I always thought that was just a thing in the movies, and of course only a thing back when people had actual keys with little room numbers on them.  The whole gesture makes less sense with a swipe-card that has no indication of the room on it.  Maybe it happens all the time, and I'm just jealous it never happened to me, or something.

No.  It's whole-cloth invention by shitbags that weren't present, who desperately need to be part of the "cool kids" clique.

Quote from: kythri;1086283That statement is a fucking world away from this one:



See the difference?  Assholes making shit up is how this shit escalates out of control.  David "I thought it was pretty clear" Johansen is either a lying piece of shit, or just a fucking moron.

I'll go with fucking moron for $500, Alex.

Quote from: RMS;1086284This certainly supports his contention that his intention was fine here, though of course she could still interpret his actions differently.  If he learns not to pass his key off in the future, just to be certain the act isn't misinterpreted, that seems reasonable to me.

I'll confess that my first thought here was: Does anyone ever actually hand off a room key as a proposition?  I always thought that was just a thing in the movies, and of course only a thing back when people had actual keys with little room numbers on them.  The whole gesture makes less sense with a swipe-card that has no indication of the room on it.  Maybe it happens all the time, and I'm just jealous it never happened to me, or something.

   According to Webb's original statement:

QuoteUnfortunately, that was not the end of it. While we were out for a cigarette, I offered her one by holding my cigarette pack out towards her so that she could take one. As was my habit, I had my room key in the sleeve of the cigarette pack so that I would not lose it.

I now can imagine how that must have looked. I had absolutely no intention of giving the impression that I was propositioning Ms. Hensley.