Quote from: Spinachcat;1085369Any convention that thinks its the Morality Police isn't going to last. They don't have the resources or the experience to "investigate" anything.

Cons are there to host games and vendors. Nothing more, nothing less.

1: Seen this back in the 90s with an art/comic con. The moral guardians had been bitching more and more each year to "clean up the industry" and get rid of everything that offended them. "So the mainstream will respect us!" of course. It wasnt good enough to harass artists and vendors one at a time. They went after the biggest con for that venue and ruined it the year I was attending by threatening the hotel it was hosted at. The next year they had took over and were running the con. It lasted about one more year then folded as people run out or suppressed just started a new convention which proceeded to overshadow the original. And thus a con that had been around for a decade died.

2: You'd like to think that. But cons oft end up battlefields behind the scenes. The sheer viciousness of artist wars alone is appalling.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1085393How about you pump the brakes you assault-supporting, victim-denying subhuman alt-right sexist cishet systematically priveleged white male.

LOL!!!

Why pump the brakes when I can gun the engine!

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1085398So, these facts and evidence just walk on up to you and introduce themselves?

Investigating = / = Believing.

Investigating = Investigating.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1085398And you certainly should go to the hotel for every complaint of someone behaving poorly enough that you don't want them at the con anymore. Hotels love dealing with every problem and they open their doors happily to groups that have no self policing ability.

If a problem happens in convention area, that's one thing, and most likely governed by the hotel's rules laid out in the rental agreement because the hotel is foremost concerned about its own liability.

If it happens outside the convention area (aka, the hotel bar), that's the hotel's issue and there's no reason for the con to be involved. BTW, for small cons, its very common for the con to be one of several events happening simultaneously at the venue.

Hotels deal with guest issues all the time. Drunken wedding brawls aren't a new thing for them.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1085398There also is no reason to have a policy on harassment and to be clear that anyone can be removed from the event with no refund if the con staff decides to. I mean, pretty much every professional event organization suggests it to reduce liability, but with all of these facts and evidence, no problem so no need.

Of course, the harassment policy will "reduce liability" because its a necessary legal dodge in our overly litigious world. Just like every "terms and conditions" when you visit websites. There's nothing noble about any of that bullshit. It's CYA. Nothing less and nothing more.

But an event increases their liability if they start playing Judge Dredd.

Most game con organizers aren't even professional con organizers! They're mostly volunteers. They don't have any investigation background, nor any legal standing to do an investigation into violent incident.

As for the "he said, she said" nonsense, cons need to remind adults they are responsible for themselves in public and to act accordingly. It appears impossible for gamers to imagine, but real women maneuver through the real world everyday without white knights hovering over them. The majority of women, just like men, handle their own shit.

But imagining that would require belief that women can handle themselves.

That's something I do believe.

In fact, I believe most women can handle their shit FAR BETTER than the clowns crapping about safe spaces.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1085460We are talking about workplace safety and having a safe gaming space. You seem to be unwilling to do something simple to make it safer so you must want more danger and cons to go bust or be unable to secure space.

Safe gaming space!!! LOL!!! OMG that's so cute.

Cons that stand up to SJW bullshit will THRIVE, not go bust.

The laughable lie about "dangerous game conventions" is asinine stupidity, but on the bright side, hopefully will keep away morons.

Quote from: Omega;1085465But cons oft end up battlefields behind the scenes. The sheer viciousness of artist wars alone is appalling.

I've done plenty of con organizing and you're 100% right. I bailed out of multiple cons due to departmental power plays and truly idiotic self-destruction of great events because people forgot their job was to host games and vendors.

Unless a con has strong leadership, the high school nonsense behind the scenes can become a nightmare. Your story about the artist con sounds very, very familiar. I've been doing cons for nearly 4 decades and I've seen numerous wonderful cons become shitholes and then poof, dead. It's a sad thing, but humans are ego monsters.

Just a reminder to everyone: please keep this within the topic of the RPG hobby. This is NOT a thread to discuss the larger issue of metoo or accusations of harassment in general, just the ones in the RPG hobby in particular.

LOL, ok so four (4) people, one right after another (including myself) spoke out against the moderation in the SJG thread over on TBP.

IMMEDIATE threadlock. Perfect. I love it.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1085607LOL, ok so four (4) people, one right after another (including myself) spoke out against the moderation in the SJG thread over on TBP.

IMMEDIATE threadlock. Perfect. I love it.

Why do you keep posting there?

The Human Resource version of "believe the victim" is a gross distortion of a (valid) psychological counseling technique.  Trying to apply it to anything gaming related is even more of a distortion, with less training, less understanding, and thus more opportunity to, well, achieve a level of foolishness not available to your mere mortal, average fool.  It's something you'd need to work up to gradually, by say, hanging around a group of screaming people with logic problems for long periods of time.

"Believe the victim" doesn't mean "Take the accusations seriously."  That's the distortion.  What it means is something more akin to:  While engaged in counseling and trying to determine why the person who has suffered trauma is suffering it, there are ways of asking questions and listening that are beneficial and others that are harmful.  Mainly, it refers to feelings.  If the victim freaks out when spiders are encountered, take them at their word that they freak out about spiders.  Don't assume they know why they freak out when spiders are encountered, though.  The more nasty the trauma, the more likely they won't know--which is probably why they are in counseling in the first place.  

Given that distinction, I hope it is obvious why the statement "believe the victim" is meaningless in an RPG context.  An RPG convention has a much more limited form of the same concerns that an HR department does.  Essentially, they need to be seen to have exercised some diligence in any nasty situation that might reflect on their bottom line, ability to continue to operate, legal responsibility, etc.  Such decisions can be made to help particular people, but more often they are made for public relations reasons, vague legal worries, or more often simple bureaucratic inertia.

So let's stop pretending that the convention banning anyone for anything short of illegal acts or repeated harassment has anything to do with "victims" at all.  It's the convention looking out for itself.  Nothing wrong with that as far as it goes.  Such groups make hard decisions all the time about who they want to attract or repel, and then they take the benefits and costs that go with those decisions.  The preening over looking out for victims is self-indulgent nonsense.  "Take problems seriously" is good at the convention level (or any level).  Pretending that "believe the victim" has anything to do with it, is delusional.

Quote from: Lurtch;1085611Why do you keep posting there?

I generally neither post nor browse there, but as a long-time SJG supporter I wanted to watch this particular shitshow.

Was actually hoping they would ban me for decrying the moderation; I can only imagine the reason they didn't ban us was some attempt at conjuring the appearance of impartiality.

Introspection interferes with the "Two Minutes of Hate" that thread was going for. User got banned for wanting to discuss his hesistancy in boycotting SJG. The problem wasn't that the user was somewhat clumsy in expressing his doubts, but that he was slowing down the flow. I doubt they can leave that thread end as it is, so see if they try to edit out the doubters regarding the moderation as being just the work of sea lions/trolls/etc.

Quote from: wmarshal;1085621I doubt they can leave that thread end as it is, so see if they try to edit out the doubters regarding the moderation as being just the work of sea lions/trolls/etc.

That would be very interesting to see, and hardly unexpected at this point. Scrubbing it clean so they can point people to it later on for ""information"" on what happened.

Now that there is a lawsuit Stacy has decided to ignore the actions she took against SJG, GaryCon etc.

https://m.facebook.com/sdellorfano/posts/2472197469459742

Per the above statement it's all just about Bill Webb. Maybe it should be (Or not. We should find out more as the process rolls on.), but she pretends she didn't lead a boycott against Gary Con or try to rile up an internet mob against SJG. No mention of those actions though it's almost guaranteed those will play a significant role in suit.

Quote from: wmarshal;1085631Now that there is a lawsuit Stacy has decided to ignore the actions she took against SJG, GaryCon etc.

https://m.facebook.com/sdellorfano/posts/2472197469459742

Per the above statement it's all just about Bill Webb. Maybe it should be (Or not. We should find out more as the process rolls on.), but she pretends she didn't lead a boycott against Gary Con or try to rile up an internet mob against SJG. No mention of those actions though it's almost guaranteed those will play a significant role in suit.

Since Stacy thinks that violating consent is ALWAYS a big deal and Bill thinks that tortious interference is ALWAYS a big deal then we just need to see what the legal system thinks.

Quote from: wmarshal;1085631Now that there is a lawsuit Stacy has decided to ignore the actions she took against SJG, GaryCon etc.

https://m.facebook.com/sdellorfano/posts/2472197469459742

Per the above statement it's all just about Bill Webb. Maybe it should be (Or not. We should find out more as the process rolls on.), but she pretends she didn't lead a boycott against Gary Con or try to rile up an internet mob against SJG. No mention of those actions though it's almost guaranteed those will play a significant role in suit.

I cannot stand that woman. Notice how she offered no specific just lying and implying. I don't think there will be lawsuit but I hope there is and she's taken for everything she has.

Hopefully Bill Webb learned not to engage with SJWs anymore.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1085607LOL, ok so four (4) people, one right after another (including myself) spoke out against the moderation in the SJG thread over on TBP.

IMMEDIATE threadlock. Perfect. I love it.

Oh how fucking glorious! You can feel the panic rising as the objections rise. Yet instead of owning their actions (like, y'know, they've been insisting SJG, Webb and FGG do), or apologizing and backing down (like, y'know, SJG should be doing), they squeal, panic, and lock the shit-show so they don't have to listen to the unwashed fucking masses. Fucking hypocrits.

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Quote from: Antiquation!;1085616I generally neither post nor browse there, but as a long-time SJG supporter I wanted to watch this particular shitshow.

Was actually hoping they would ban me for decrying the moderation; I can only imagine the reason they didn't ban us was some attempt at conjuring the appearance of impartiality.

You do know that you four just made the list, right?

If I was a betting man I would wager that you are all gone in under 4 weeks.